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An Analysis of President Lincoln's Legal Arguments Against Secession
Apollo3 ^ | April 9, 1994 | James Ostrowski

Posted on 03/31/2014 10:24:31 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

INTRODUCTION

On May 27, 1861, the army of the United States of America (the "Union")--a nation formed by consecutive secessions, first from Great Britain in 1776, and then from itself in 17881--invaded the State of Virginia,2 which had recently seceded from the Union, in an effort to negate that secession by violent force.

The historical result of the effort begun that day is well known and indisputable: after four years of brutal warfare, which killed 620,000 Americans, the United States negated the secession of the Confederate States of America, and forcibly re-enrolled them into the Union. The Civil War ended slavery, left the South in economic ruins, and set the stage for twelve years of military rule there.

Beyond its immediate effects, the Civil War made drastic changes in politics and law that continue to shape our world 130 years later. Arthur Ekirch writes: "Along with the terrible destruction of life and property suffered in four long years of fighting went tremendous changes in American life and thought, especially a decline in [classical] liberalism on all questions save that of slavery. * * * Through a policy of arbitrary arrests made possible by Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus, persons were seized and confined on the suspicion of disloyalty or of sympathy with the southern cause. Thus, in the course of the Civil War, a total of thirteen thousand civilians was estimated to have been held as political prisoners, often without any sort of trial or after only cursory hearings before a military tribunal."3The Civil War caused and allowed a tremendous expansion of the size and power of the federal government. It gave us our first federal conscription law...

(Excerpt) Read more at apollo3.com ...


TOPICS: Conspiracy; Government; History; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: civilwar; confederacy; constitution; secession
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To: central_va

“After the war President Davis asked for a trial but was not granted one because to put him on trial would put secession on trial and it was deemed a losing proposition.”

That is an untrue statement, because Jefferson Davis was ultimately indicted in the case of The United States v. Jefferson Davis. Davis was released from custody on $100,000 bail with the assistance of Horace Greeley. The case was ultimately dismissed, nolle prosequi, for a variety of reasons. The principal reason, however, was the passage of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution and its punishment of former officers and officials of the rebel Confederate States of America. Davis’ defense attorneys persuaded Davis to abandon his efforts to go on trial to argue his case for secession, because the punishments provided by the 14th Amendment gave them an opportunity to escape trial for treason of some 34 other CSA officers on the grounds doing so would constitute disallowed double jeapordy.


41 posted on 04/01/2014 5:40:45 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX
Article. VI. All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.” When the State ratified the Congressional act making the State a member of the perpetual Union of the United States as set forth in the Articles of Confederation, the ratification served to delegate those limited sovereign powers of the citizens and the State to the Union of the United States, subjecting them to the duty of obtaining the consent of Congress to alter the Engagement and agreements. The State nonetheless retains all sovereingn powers and sovereignty not delegated to the perpetual Union of the United States and not reserved by the citizens of the United States.

What happens when the perpetual Union of the United States lays claim to sovereign powers and sovereignty not delegated to them?

42 posted on 04/01/2014 5:43:06 AM PDT by tacticalogic
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To: DoodleDawg

More accurately, the Second War for Independence.

It wasn’t a “civil war” as the southern states had no designs on controlling the central government. Their design was to be independent of it.


43 posted on 04/01/2014 5:45:53 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: staytrue

If ND, SD, Nebraska, Kansas, OK and Texas seceded all at once they could cut the country in half. So what? Ukraine does not have to secede from Russia, it is already its own country. Russia is trying to get it back by force.


44 posted on 04/01/2014 5:46:26 AM PDT by jospehm20
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To: jospehm20

The Constitution was a contract between the states to form a federal government for common defense, as a foreign representative, and to arbitrate any conflict between the states.

The created entity has long since violated both the spirit and the letter of that contract.


45 posted on 04/01/2014 5:47:58 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: WhiskeyX
WhiskeyX: "Secession without the consent of Congress was prohibited by: The Articles of Confederation..."

FRiend, some very FRiendly advice: when you're posting lengthy excerpts, use some kind of emphasis such as this to show us the specific words which make your point.
For italics, it's simply: < I > then < /I >.
For stronger points: use < b > < u > to start your emphasis, then < /b > < /u > to end it.
Please, give us a fighting chance to see what you're trying to say.

For more, here is an old HTML sandbox.

46 posted on 04/01/2014 5:56:11 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: tacticalogic

“What happens when the perpetual Union of the United States lays claim to sovereign powers and sovereignty not delegated to them?”

There are a variety of methods of confronting that problem, enough to fill one or more books, depending on the nature of the transgressions. One of those methods is currently underway at the present time with the Convention of States. Oterh methods include using parliamentary law at the local level to replace representatives and governments until some of the powers lost to the citizens are restored, particularly the powr of presentment for a Grand Jury.


47 posted on 04/01/2014 5:59:41 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX
There are a variety of methods of confronting that problem, enough to fill one or more books, depending on the nature of the transgressions. One of those methods is currently underway at the present time with the Convention of States. Oterh methods include using parliamentary law at the local level to replace representatives and governments until some of the powers lost to the citizens are restored, particularly the powr of presentment for a Grand Jury.

So only one side of this contract is entitled to use force against the other to effect compliance?

48 posted on 04/01/2014 6:03:10 AM PDT by tacticalogic
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To: MrB
More accurately, the Second War for Independence

I suppose you could call it that with accuracy. But to call it "War of Northern Aggression" doesn't make sense. Do we call the Revolutionary War the "War of British Aggression"?

49 posted on 04/01/2014 6:05:22 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: DoodleDawg

1812 was the “War of British Aggression”...


50 posted on 04/01/2014 6:06:55 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: WhiskeyX

There is no doubt in my mind that the 1787 Constitution has fully and lawfully superseded the Articles of Confederation for all practical purposes. I ask again, please enlighten me as to where I can find a reference to a perpetual union in the Constitution of the United States?


51 posted on 04/01/2014 6:09:31 AM PDT by jospehm20
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To: tacticalogic

“So only one side of this contract is entitled to use force against the other to effect compliance?”

The usage of Grand Jury indictments under the power of presentment, voting to repalce representatives and delegates, recall elections, ballot initiatives, arrests and indictments by friendly prosecutors, and more are usages of the force behind the power of the State as provided for by the Founding Fathers.


52 posted on 04/01/2014 6:16:18 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: tacticalogic

No, you always have the Right of Revolution. Rise up, destroy the Old Order and create new laws and government you like better. Just don’t believe that it’s “legal” because the whole point is to remove yourself from law as constituted. And don’t act all surprised and hurt when the existing government doesn’t just roll over and play dead for you. The Founding Fathers were under no illusion what would happen to them if their revolution failed.


53 posted on 04/01/2014 6:22:31 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: WhiskeyX

That husband of hers you mentioned, Captain Timothy McGinnis, just happened to have died at Lake George in Sept 1755 fighting the Indians and the French to save the butts of those same men who imprisoned her..


54 posted on 04/01/2014 6:33:39 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
No, you always have the Right of Revolution. Rise up, destroy the Old Order and create new laws and government you like better. Just don’t believe that it’s “legal”

Has it ever been held that one side is still legally obligated to abide by a contract that has been abrogated by the other?

55 posted on 04/01/2014 6:35:20 AM PDT by tacticalogic
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To: MrB

It was also a war of American aggression..

ask the non-combatant Canadian women who lost their houses when the Americans came through Ontario in 1814 burning village after village..

ask Hannah De Forest the 10 yo who was imprisoned in Fort Dayton, Albany, NY ...

As a widow with little children of her own, her house in St Davids was burnt down by the aggressive Americans in July 18/19, 1814..


56 posted on 04/01/2014 6:39:40 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: tacticalogic

Did I miss where the southern states took their complaints to court?


57 posted on 04/01/2014 6:43:37 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: WhiskeyX

To keep her from using her influence with the Indians
__________________________________________

Well from Canada where she fled she was able to influence them a lot better thank you very much...

she convince many to go north to escape the eventually massacre that was coming after the war ended when the white men would want to go back to stealing the lands of the Indians err pushing the Indians ever westward out of the NY colony..


58 posted on 04/01/2014 6:45:59 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: jospehm20

“There is no doubt in my mind that the 1787 Constitution has fully and lawfully superseded the Articles of Confederation for all practical purposes.”

That is a misrepresentation of the facts to deceive yourself and the readers. The Constitution clearly states “Article. VI. All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.”

In other words, the Constitution says the “Engagements,” meaning the agreements, “entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.”

One of the agreements incorporated into the Constitution by Article VI is “The Articles of Confederation Article XIII. Every State shall abide by the determination of the united States in congress assembled, on all questions which by this confederation are submitted to them. And the Articles of this confederation shall be inviolably observed by every State, and the union shall be perpetual; nor shall any alteration at any time hereafter be made in any of them; unless such alteration be agreed to in a congress of the united States, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every State.”

You can drop the attempts to say the Constitution does not incorporate prior acts of the United States in the Articles of Confederation, because the Constitution clearly does incorporate the Engagements therein by Article VI.

Your false interpretation is made even more ludicrous insofar as it would imply the Constitution invalidated the Declaration of Independence, the Treaty of Paris of 1783 ending the Revolutionary War and granting British recognition of the independence of the United States, the Articles of Confederation, an assortment of other acts of the Continental Congresses and Congress and a wide array of Federal and state statutes that incorporate agreements by reference to prior acts.

So, your reference to a perpetual Union is to be found by reference in Article VI of the Constitution to the Engagement found in the relevant Articles of the Confederation.


59 posted on 04/01/2014 6:52:54 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
Did I miss where the southern states took their complaints to court?

You missed a change of context.

Start at #42.

60 posted on 04/01/2014 6:53:08 AM PDT by tacticalogic
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