NE:Should Toy Guns Bring the Same Penalties as Real Guns?

Gun Watch ^ | 3 April, 2014 | Dean Weingarten

[marktwain]

Nearly every state has enhanced penalties for armed robbery vs. unarmed robbery.  In the Nebraska statute, to be considered armed, a toy or replica gun is not enough.   If the robber can show that what he used in the robbery was not a real gun, then the enhanced penalty does not apply.  From ketv.com:

"It looks like a real gun. You know it acts like a real gun," Kleine said. He made the comments while showing KETV NewsWatch 7 a fake gun used by a teen to commit a robbery. 

But under state law, the fake gun isn't a firearm, even if it's used to commit a crime

The current law gives robbers an incentive to use fake or toy guns in the commission of their crimes.    That may be a good thing.   I would rather that robbers used fake, toy, or ineffective guns instead of real, effective guns.

 Nebraska senators have yet to sign off on toughening the law about using toy or replica guns in crimes. It hasn't yet come out of committee. There's talk of adding it as an amendment to other legislation.

Out of 85 weapons seized:

- 24 are not loaded

- 2 are not loaded with the correct ammunition

- 9 are completely broken

Combine those facts and you will see that 41% of the weapons we seize from criminals are completely non-functional!
- See more at: http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/8579#sthash.RjkSiUoW.dpuf

Many robbers never believe that anything is going to go wrong in their conception of what will happen when they are in the process of committing crimes, so they are comfortable with using toy or fake guns.   A surprising number of robbers use guns that are not loaded, guns loaded with the wrong ammunition, or loaded with much less than full capacity.  In one of the few studies to consider how criminals are armed, Greg Ellifritz, from a small midwestern police department found this:

Out of 85 weapons seized:

- 24 are not loaded

- 2 are not loaded with the correct ammunition

- 9 are completely broken

Combine those facts and you will see that 41% of the weapons we seize from criminals are completely non-functional!

No one has developed a national database on this, so there could be considerable variation.   Still, it is interesting information.

It might be wise to encourage this trend.   If a criminal's gun is fake or does not work, people cannot be shot with them.  The down side for the criminal is that a person who cannot tell if the gun is fake or not would be prudent in assuming that the gun is real and loaded, thus increasing the chance of the criminal being shot.

©2014 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
Link to Gun Watch

[marktwain]

There is no controversy about defending yourself if you reasonably believe the threat is real.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

The reason they use a toy gun in a robbery is because they want the victim to believe it is a real gun.

If the victim believes it's a real gun, it's a real gun, especially if the victim pulls out their own gun and kills the perp.

[NEMDF]

Agreed. Same goes for LEOs that believe someone is aiming a real gun at them, which turns out to be a toy/fake/not loaded, etc. If someone is showing a gun that looks “real”, the conclusion that should be drawn without a bunch of second-guessing, is that the gun is real.

[marktwain]

“If the victim believes it’s a real gun, it’s a real gun, especially if the victim pulls out their own gun and kills the perp.”

True. I do not think that is the issue. The question is, should the criminal who uses a toy gun have the same legal penaties applied to them as the criminal who uses a real gun?

There is some sense in giving some incentives to criminals not to use real guns.

[GeronL]

they think a toy gun ACTS like a real gun?

both are inanimate objects I guess

[KarlInOhio]

How about a finger in the robber’s coat pocket? Is armed robbery or not if he tells the victims that it’s a gun? What if someone defends himself with a real gun?

[E. Pluribus Unum]

It doesn't matter whether it's a toy gun or not.

Playing games with real-vs-toy guns will result in catastrophic unintended consequences.

Well-meaning idiocy always does.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

If you imply you have a deadly weapon aimed at your victim, you have committed assault with a deadly weapon.

[RJS1950]

The reason this 16 yo used a toy gun was exactly to get past an actual use of a firearm to commit a crime. He probably figured that with his age and the use of a non-handgun would get him off of an adult, big crime charge.

Mganga Mganga, yep that’s his name, is the dimwit who used the toy gun to carjack a woman and her teenage son. He got caught because he couldn’t figure out how to drive a stick shift so he abandoned the car and ran.

[Moonman62]

Man fatally shoots Craigslist seller-turned-robber, police say

Some Obama children tried to use a starter pistol on a potential victim with a real 45.

[Oatka]

There have been cases where the perp used a black marker to eliminate the orange tip. Those kinds should be prosecuted for real weapons as the intent is clear.