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Would you Adam 'n' Eve it ... dinosaurs in Eden (CRE-VO) Mixing science with creationism
THE OBSERVER ^ | 2005May 22, 2005 | By Paul Harris

Posted on 05/24/2005 9:14:01 PM PDT by restornu

Eureka Springs, Arkansas The razor-toothed Tyrannosaurus rex, jaws agape, loomed ominously over the gentle Thescelosaurus, looking for plants to eat. Admiring the museum diorama were old and young visitors, listening on headphones to a stentorian voice describing the primeval scene. But the Museum of Earth History is a museum with a controversial difference. To one side, peering through the bushes, are Adam and Eve. The display is not an image of the Cretaceous. It is Paradise. 'They lived together without fear, for there was no death yet,' the voice intoned about Man and Dinosaur.

Nestling deep in the Ozark mountains of Arkansas, in the heart of America's Bible Belt, this is the first dinosaur museum to take a creationist perspective. Already thousands of people have flocked to its top-quality exhibits which mix high science with fundamentalist theology that few serious scientists accept.

The museum is riding a wave of creationist influence in America. Creationism, which holds that the Earth is just a few thousand years old and the biblical account of Genesis is fact, is central to a rash of furious arguments across America. From school boards in Kansas to elections in Pennsylvania, the 'debate' between creationism and evolution has become a political hot potato.

Even as America's scientists make advances in palaeontology, astronomy and physics that appear to disprove creationism, Gallup surveys have shown that about 45 per cent of Americans believe the Earth was created by God within the past 10,000 years. It is not just creationism either. Last week NBC's Dateline current affairs programme, equivalent to the BBC's Newsnight, investigated miracles. It concluded some could be real. It is hard to imagine Jeremy Paxman taking this stance.

That wellspring of popular belief, and the political clout that comes with it, is the inspiration behind the museum. It is not interested in debating with mainstream science. It simply wants to represent the view of a significant slice of America. 'We want people to see that finally they have something that addresses their beliefs, to show that we do have a voice,' said Thomas Sharp, business director of Creation Truth, the religious group that co-founded the museum.

No expense was spared. The fossil casts, which range from a Triceratops skull to an 18ft-long Albertosaurus (a relative to T. rex), could easily grace London's Natural History Museum. Plans for a much bigger museum in Dallas are advanced. 'We would love to open in the United Kingdom if the right partner showed up,' Sharp said.

The museum forms part of a Bible-based theme park in Eureka Springs; the car park is full of cars and coaches from all over the country. To enter the museum is to explore a surrealistic parallel world. Biblical quotes appear on displays. The first has dinosaurs, alongside Adam and Eve, living in harmony. The ferociously fanged T. rex is likely to be a vegetarian. Then comes the Fall of Man and an ugly world where dinosaurs prey on each other and the first extinctions occur. The destruction of the dinosaurs is explained, not by a comet striking the Earth 65 million years ago, but by the Flood. This, the museum says, wiped out most of the dinosaurs still alive and created the Grand Canyon and huge layers of sedimentary rock seen around the world.

Some dinosaurs survived on Noah's ark. One poster explains that Noah would have chosen juvenile dinosaurs to save space. An illustration shows two green sauropods in the ark alongside more conventional elephants and lions. The final exhibit depicts the Ice Age, where the last dinosaurs existed with woolly mammoths until the cold and hunting by cavemen caused them to die out.

Scientists dismiss such claims as on a par with believing in Atlantis. Yet the museum is unlikely to be seen as a major threat to mainstream science. It was put in the heart of an area where Christian attractions are a mainstay of the local economy.

It was built in co-operation with the 'New Holy Land' theme park which re-created the biblical Middle East in the Ozarks. A huge statue of Christ, the largest in North America, looms over Eureka Springs. The site is the setting for The Great Passion Play, where each night in a 4,500-strong arena the last days of Christ are acted out. The play has attracted more than 7.2 million people.

But creationism is seeking to become more influential in other parts of the country. In Kansas the state school board recently held public hearings on the validity of evolution and the teaching of 'Intelligent Design' (ID) in classrooms. The hearings were boycotted by scientists who believed they were rigged against evolutionists. The theory of ID holds that the world is so complex it must have been created, and has been dubbed 'creationism lite' by its critics. Kansas is now expected to recommend schools to include ID-friendly material in its science courses this summer.

In Pennsylvania, the issue dominated an election in the town of Dover after the school board decided to include mention of ID in its science classes. A vote last week between anti-evolution and pro-evolution candidates ended in an electoral tie.

Creationism has found one high-level voice. President George Bush famously proclaimed: 'The jury is still out on evolution.' A CBS survey late last year showed that 45 per cent of Bush voters wanted creationism taught in schools instead of evolution, compared to 24 per cent of voters for John Kerry. 'Under the Bush presidency, we are clearly able to get a lot more done,' Sharp said.

The Museum of Earth History may be the first dinosaur museum of its kind. It is not likely to be the last.


TOPICS: Education; Gardening; Health/Medicine; History; Hobbies; Pets/Animals; Reference; Religion; Science; Sports
KEYWORDS: creationism; dinosaur; godsgravesglyphs; maryschweitzer; museum
PatrickHenry family line!:)

In the beginning . . . Adam walked with dinosaurs [Creationist Park] Telegraph.co.uk ^ | 02 January 2005 | James Langton

Posted on 01/02/2005 3:20:11 PM EST by PatrickHenry


1 posted on 05/24/2005 9:14:02 PM PDT by restornu
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To: PatrickHenry; Doctor Stochastic; js1138; RadioAstronomer; VadeRetro

Hi son!

2 posted on 05/24/2005 9:17:40 PM PDT by restornu (We inheirt bondage, when we lack knowledge; our honorable men starve,our flock wither for thirst.)
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To: restornu
Read the Harry Harrison Trilogy "West of Eden".

Publisher Comments:

Sixty-five million years ago, a disastrous cataclysm eliminated three quarters of all life on Earth. Overnight, the age of dinosaurs ended. The age of mammals had begun.

But what if history had happened differently? What if the reptiles had survived to evolve intelligent life?

In West of Eden, bestselling author Harry Harrison has created a rich, dramatic saga of a world where the descendants of the dinosaurs struggled with a clan of humans in a battle for survival.
3 posted on 05/24/2005 9:30:06 PM PDT by HuntsvilleTxVeteran ("In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit." AYN RAND)
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran

Like your tagline!


4 posted on 05/24/2005 10:32:16 PM PDT by restornu (We inheirt bondage, when we lack knowledge; our honorable men starve,our flock wither for thirst.)
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To: restornu
The museum is riding a wave of creationist influence in America. Creationism, which holds that the Earth is just a few thousand years old and the biblical account of Genesis is fact, is central to a rash of furious arguments across America. From school boards in Kansas to elections in Pennsylvania, the 'debate' between creationism and evolution has become a political hot potato.

This author forgot the talking point (to be delivered with a snicker) that ID isn't creationism. I can see where it's easy to forget.

5 posted on 05/25/2005 5:24:36 AM PDT by VadeRetro ( Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: restornu
'They lived together without fear, for there was no death yet,' the voice intoned about Man and Dinosaur.

Strikes me as being poor theology, leaving science out of it.

Surely nobody claims that (parts of) the animal world became carnivorous as a result of the Fall of Man?

If dinosaurs were born prior to the Fall, but none die, don't we get a bit of a population problem before long?

6 posted on 05/25/2005 6:14:51 AM PDT by Restorer
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past; ohioWfan; Tribune7; Tolkien; bondserv; GrandEagle; ...
President George Bush famously proclaimed: 'The jury is still out on evolution.'


Creation ping list
See my profile for info

7 posted on 05/25/2005 11:04:32 AM PDT by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com)
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To: Restorer
Surely nobody claims that (parts of) the animal world became carnivorous ...

Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
8 posted on 05/25/2005 11:19:55 AM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: GrandEagle

LOL

The scripture is correct, although often indirectly. The animal kingdom feeds on the plant kingdom.

Try putting your cat on a strict vegetarian diet and see how long she survives.


9 posted on 05/25/2005 11:23:33 AM PDT by Restorer
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To: Restorer
Try putting your cat on a strict vegetarian diet and see how long she survives

True, very true - in a POST flood world.
I believe that the world was a very different place prior to the flood.
It was not given to man to eat meat until after the flood.

Cordially,
GE
10 posted on 05/25/2005 11:30:08 AM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: GrandEagle
It was not given to man to eat meat until after the flood.

I'll buy that, if you like, although it seems highly unlikely that the evil men before the Flood would obey this law while breaking all the others.

LOL.

However, I do believe it was given to cats and other carnivores to eat meat. I do not comprehend how anyone can read the Bible to mean that Man's sin would affect the animals and what they eat.

11 posted on 05/25/2005 11:42:14 AM PDT by Restorer
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To: Restorer

God demonstrated he could close the mouths of Lions, why not all animals.


12 posted on 05/25/2005 11:53:21 AM PDT by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com)
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To: Restorer
Try putting your cat on a strict vegetarian diet and see how long she survives.

**************

Or how long you do. :)

13 posted on 05/25/2005 12:01:34 PM PDT by trisham ("Live Free or Die," General John Stark, July 31, 1809)
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To: Restorer
I do not comprehend how anyone can read the Bible to mean that Man's sin would affect the animals and what they eat.

Sin entered the world by way of Adams fall, and death by that sin. Prior to that, it was a perfect world that didn't have death.

GE
14 posted on 05/25/2005 12:15:35 PM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: restornu
Some dinosaurs survived on Noah's ark.

I thought dinosaurs died out millions of years ago and Noah wasn't alive back then. How do they explain this?

This Noah comment really made me laugh.

I believe in the creation, but I have no idea how long a "day" was, as mentioned in Genesis. A day can mean a period of time. I don't usually get involved with the evolution vs. creation debate. I don't know how God created the earth and all the creatures on it. I'll just wait until I get to Heaven to find out exactly how the creation happened.

15 posted on 05/25/2005 12:15:38 PM PDT by Luna (Lobbing the Holy Hand Grenade at Liberalism)
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To: Luna
I agree...God will not judge us on what we believe about creation whether we get into heaven or not. Thats based on what we do knowing our sin, Christs suffering and Gods grace.

People need to hear the Truth and our fellow Freepers are part of the great commission.
If evo is true, God did not create, if evo is true, God did not save us.

16 posted on 05/25/2005 12:24:07 PM PDT by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com)
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To: Luna
but I have no idea how long a "day" was, as mentioned in Genesis

We can look to Genesis for that answer:
Gen 1:13 "And the evening and the morning were the third day."
God says the same about each day of creation.
Again in Ex 20:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore

Ex 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Cordially,
GE
17 posted on 05/25/2005 12:48:20 PM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: GrandEagle

"Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so."

Thank you, Restorer.


18 posted on 05/25/2005 12:52:55 PM PDT by righttackle44 (The most dangerous weapon in the world is a Marine with his rifle and the American people behind him)
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To: Luna
I thought dinosaurs died out millions of years ago

Except maybe: Aligators
Among others....
19 posted on 05/25/2005 1:01:35 PM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: Luna
I thought dinosaurs died out millions of years ago

And maybe: coelacanth
Among others....
20 posted on 05/25/2005 1:06:01 PM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: Luna
I thought dinosaurs died out millions of years ago

And maybe: some others
Among others....
21 posted on 05/25/2005 1:07:49 PM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: Luna
The point being that perhaps Man is wrong and God is right and these animal species are not that old.

Very Cordially,
GE
22 posted on 05/25/2005 1:10:10 PM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: GrandEagle

Sorry, but I don't believe in a literal 24 hour period for each day it took God to create the earth. I don't think God's sense of time is the same as ours. But again, I'm not going to worry about it. It really has no bearing on my eternal salvation.


23 posted on 05/25/2005 1:12:15 PM PDT by Luna (Lobbing the Holy Hand Grenade at Liberalism)
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To: restornu
About a month and a half or two months ago, and this was on all the major newswires, there was a story about some people breaking a tyranosaur leg bone in half to get it onto a helicopter from a place from which there was no other way to get it out of, and finding soft tissue inside the bone.

This is what tyranosaur meat looks like:

The MSNBC version of the story can be read here.

Does any of that look like it's 70 million years old to you?

24 posted on 05/25/2005 1:13:53 PM PDT by tahotdog
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To: Luna

No problem, Have a great day!


25 posted on 05/25/2005 1:14:04 PM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: Luna
Sorry, but I don't believe in a literal 24 hour period for each day it took God to create the earth. I don't think God's sense of time is the same as ours. But again, I'm not going to worry about it. It really has no bearing on my eternal salvation.

Jesus Christ speaking regarding Adam and Eve:

Mar 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

Not many people realize He said this! This speaks more to the Theory of Evolution than anything else.

26 posted on 05/25/2005 1:25:01 PM PDT by bondserv (Creation sings a song of praise, Declaring the wonders of Your ways )
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To: bondserv
Mar 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
Excellent reference!
I didn't think of that one.

GE
27 posted on 05/25/2005 1:28:19 PM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: GrandEagle
Excellent reference! I didn't think of that one.

Cinches it for me. Got no higher authority I can go to.

28 posted on 05/25/2005 1:30:21 PM PDT by bondserv (Creation sings a song of praise, Declaring the wonders of Your ways )
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To: bondserv

Yep! Excellent observation. Think Darwin read the Bible?


29 posted on 05/25/2005 1:37:21 PM PDT by Luna (Lobbing the Holy Hand Grenade at Liberalism)
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To: wallcrawlr

Okay.

I'll bite. (Pardon the expression.)

Why would God create animals designed (teeth, jaws, digestive tract, many other features) to eat meat if they were never going to eat meat unless man Fell?

You cannot seriously tell me that you can look at a cheetah, so wonderfully designed to run down prey, and believe that God's original intent was for it to eat grass. Until Man screwed up God's plan.

Or maybe you can.


30 posted on 05/25/2005 1:40:24 PM PDT by Restorer
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To: bondserv
I have been through all sorts of beliefs. For a while I did the Day - age thing.
As I studied Gods word obvious problems with that thought came up so I moved to the "Gap Theory" always trying to reconcile God word to "science". Continued study presented lots of problems with this belief also. I finally decided that God had written what he meant to write.
As I continue to study, I find it easier and easier to let Gods word tell me what it means instead of me studying it and adapting it to fit my beliefs.

Romans 3:
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;

1 Tim 2:
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Cordially,
GE
31 posted on 05/25/2005 1:46:44 PM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: Luna
Yep! Excellent observation. Think Darwin read the Bible?

From what I've read, Darwin started off his college as a theology student. However, he got bitter towards God and decided to change majors.

Many naturalistic philosophers during his time influenced him to take an obviously unbiblical approach to explaining the reality of life. Being that everyone misunderstood the microscopic aspects of life, his theory took wing on finches beaks (which we now know was just adaptation back and forth between big beaks and pointy beaks). The eye would have confounded him even more if he had known the extent of it's complexity.

Atheists have decided to continue towing the line, in order to avoid accountability to a superior being, despite the obvious. They put it out as quick as they can produce it. it should be called the UnDiscovery channel. And NOVAlue.

32 posted on 05/25/2005 2:00:53 PM PDT by bondserv (Creation sings a song of praise, Declaring the wonders of Your ways )
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To: Restorer
bite
good one

designed to eat meat

I dont know...but from Gen 1:29-30, it says they were designed to eat plants and the plants were treated like meat.
In Isaiah 11:6-9, "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.”

I do not understand either why there could be a vegetarian piranha...but God says there was so thats what I believe.

33 posted on 05/25/2005 2:02:01 PM PDT by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com)
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To: wallcrawlr

You might notice that the quotation from Isaiah is in future tense. It is a prophecy about the future, not a historical statement about the past.

It is also not an enormous stretch to consider the whole passage a metaphor for changes in people.


34 posted on 05/25/2005 2:07:25 PM PDT by Restorer
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To: GrandEagle
I am still not sure what time frame the whole "falling of the third of the angels" thing occurred. That "formless and void" thing in the Hebrew keeps me from dogmatically being a Young Earth Creationist. I lean heavily in that direction, however, based on the correlation between creation week and the sabbath week in the ten commandments. That was etched on stone by the finger of God.

Darwinian evolution is patentedly unbiblical, and obviously a fantasy.
35 posted on 05/25/2005 2:07:40 PM PDT by bondserv (Creation sings a song of praise, Declaring the wonders of Your ways )
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To: wallcrawlr

ok, I can see that, but I see it as a verse that looks back and predicts the future too.

The dude in the verse is Adam. Adam was the only other perfect man besides Jesus...well that is for a limited time.


36 posted on 05/25/2005 2:10:07 PM PDT by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com)
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To: bondserv

Ah, yes. The finches. I just figured God created them differently from each other. It would be pretty boring if ALL finches were the same. God takes everything into account, to the smallest details.


37 posted on 05/25/2005 2:19:22 PM PDT by Luna (Lobbing the Holy Hand Grenade at Liberalism)
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To: tahotdog

ahh, the memories...I posted that story on Fr:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1369945/posts

500 posts and 8,000 views

And thats before I got interested in all this debate here on Fr.


38 posted on 05/25/2005 2:41:34 PM PDT by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com)
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39 posted on 10/03/2009 9:12:52 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: restornu
It is Paradise. 'They lived together without fear, for there was no death yet,' the voice intoned about Man and Dinosaur.

If there was no death yet, why did God make predators such as the T-Rex? Doesn't fly, doesn't work. He had to eat something, the bible does say that Adam and Eve ate, so it would appear all the creatures alive at that time must have eaten, a T-Rex was designed to eat meat, therefore it had to kill something or find a dead animal in order to eat.

40 posted on 10/03/2009 9:31:55 PM PDT by calex59 (FUBO, we want our constitution back and we intend to get it!)
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To: GrandEagle
You're conflating different things. The world ≠ Eden ≠ the Garden in Eden.

Genesis 2:8 (King James Version)

8And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

41 posted on 05/02/2011 6:17:54 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: wallcrawlr

Right now stars are forming from gravity and nuclear fusion. Do you contend that God did not make these stars?


42 posted on 05/02/2011 6:22:30 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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