It will probably end when the Muslims stop trying to kill us, clean up their own house (reign in the terrorists), and leave everyone else alone to live in peace. Until then...
Posted on 07/15/2006 10:48:32 AM PDT by Xing Daorong
I don't understand, some people say that Islam is responsible for terrorism today, rather than those who manipulate and perversely interpret Islam to further their murderous aims.
Islam is so similiar to Christianity that there isn't even a point to it, every quote showing "Judeao-Christian hatred" can be logically explained by anyone who has read the Quran.
We have groups like Muslims for Bush (now Muslims for America) a primarily Republican group of American muslims supporting the War on Terror.
Not all muslims are terrorists but most terrorosts are muslim.
A lot of people don't understand how Arabic is translated. If that was explained, more would see how a Sheik/Imaan can translate the Quran to say about 5 totally different things.
On top of that, I think you are a troll.
You must have severe nasal congestion to the point of not being able to smell a fifth column. Use Afrin spray.
Oh and that's because Mohammed took what he liked from Christianity and Judaism and incorporated it in his religion.
Btw, the Qu'ran says that it's alright to lie to "infidels". Nowhere in the Bible is lying condoned. The Qu'ran also states that you can beat your wife and she'll benefit from it. There's NO corellating Scripture.
It will probably end when the Muslims stop trying to kill us, clean up their own house (reign in the terrorists), and leave everyone else alone to live in peace. Until then...
Another you know what?
And furthermore, the Christians on Ambon, Sulawesi and Papua can give you an earful about hatred for Christians by moslems. You do not find a correlation anywhere, even in the Crusades, in Christian history.
Probably just a newbie who needs to see a little more 'splainin'...
Since he hasn't posted back to the thread yet, I say troll vs. newbie.
They come close by their unbelievable silence about terrorist deeds.
"I don't understand, some people say that Islam is responsible for terrorism today, rather than those who manipulate and perversely interpret Islam to further their murderous aims.
Islam is so similiar to Christianity that there isn't even a point to it, every quote showing "Judeao-Christian hatred" can be logically explained by anyone who has read the Quran.
We have groups like Muslims for Bush (now Muslims for America) a primarily Republican group of American muslims supporting the War on Terror."
Before the zot hungry get here, I can address a few of those hopefully.
First, most reasonable people do understand that not all Muslims are Islamists or supporters of terror.
However, Islam is not similar to Christianity, or to Judaism, truly. They have a similar basis, as all are Abrahamic faiths. But Islam is a supercessionist faith; it seeks to replace the others, seeing itself as superior. This is explicit and overtly stated in the Koran and the Hadiths.
Also, there are far more passages in the Koran and the Hadiths that encourage intolerance and discrimination against people of others faiths, even the so-called "People of the Book", than discourage it. And that encourage violence. And that encourage a totalitarian theocratically structured society.
This does not mean that moderate Islam is not possible, or does not exist. But it does mean that those who see a moderate Islam as intended to be the mainstream Islam have a long way to go in reforming their faith. It's not something Christians and Jews can do; its something Muslims need to do for themselves.
And I think a major problem that people have with Islam is that people see relatively few moderate Muslims stand up against terror; those individuals who do stand up against terror and are ostensibly Muslim are, more often than not (in my experience at least), secular.
Also, it is a truisim, but nevertheless a valid (if generalizing) observation that Islam does have "bloody borders". All around the world, it seems to be on, or even making up the primary bulk of, one side in the majority of national and international conflicts around the world. Many ex-Soviet republics, the middle east, Israel, terrrorism, France, Germany, Turkey, Malaysia, Thailand, India, Pakistan, etc.
And, unfortunately, the faith is given a bad name by Muslim citizens and residents of Western countries who, whenever a terrorist attack occurs, blame the West first, and give only muted (if any) criticism of the terrorists.
Muslims for Bush, Muslims for Moderate Islam and Muslims for a Democratic Middle East would go a long way towards correcting a (hopefully false) negative perception of Islam as a violent, backwards faith if they were active, and sought to unequivocally condemn terrorism, sought to reform their faith, purge the violent heretics (and I do appreciate that Wahabiism/Salafismhas been declared a heresy about 90 times or so, but it still does make up 10-15% of Muslims) and stop equivocating and justifying evil actions.
Islam is different than Christianity and Judaism. That's not necessarily a bad thing; but, if it wants to be seen as a positive influence, it must first visibly produce positive works, or at least visibly and productively work towards neutralizing evil works.
Finally, not all Muslims are terrorists, but an overwhelming number of terrorists are Muslim. Obviously, this gives innocent and moderate Muslims a bad name.
I've known many good, decent, moderate and patriotic Muslims from a variety of countries; Britain, Canada, Pakistan, Israel, Jordan and Turkey, to name a few. I've also seen many radical Muslims. Many people who don't run in the same circles as me would not have met moderate Muslims (who probably do make up the majority in North America, even if many do seem to possess rather extreme anti-American and anti-Israeli sentiments) and yet will still have seen the radicals and their works. This will colour the representation.
This is why moderate Muslims must visibly and vocally condemn the radical heretics, each and every time, and not equivocate, nor justify, nor seek to explain, or put into context terrorism, religious extremism or seditious statements.
/soapbox
His posting history
You might want to check out my number 15 post, Salem.
Everything I need to know about islam, I learned on 9-11.
It comes from a combination of backlash against terrorist acts and liberal appeasement, over generalization, facts about Islam that are disturbing (Mohammed's life, hadiths, taqqiya, etc), and a lot of hypocrisy.
By the standards they use to show that all Muslims are terrorists, we would fail the test miserably because we don't immediately go out in public and condemn every act of terror in the world. To make matters worse, any FReeper would be righteously angered if someone defamed Christianity or Judaism and would fight back. Yet the anti-Islam FReepers expect Muslims to take virulent insults on their faith sitting down and eventually come join the good guy.
In addition, they often forget/not realize that Muslims die in terror attacks and are victims of such as much as anybody. Of course contributions by the Iraqis and Afghanis are often overlooked. I even talked to a couple of posters who couldn't care less that Afghanis and Iraqis bled and died right alongside American troops.
The group of people most against this world view are FReepers who know someone serving or is currently serving him/herself. They interact on a daily basis with the "Muslimes" and know the truth of the matter: they are not all terrorist, women beating, camel raping, towel-headed fanatics.
There is not enough "walking a mile" going on among these posters. If some alien species came to earth claiming to give us a better life and adopted the tactics/language advocated by these FReepers, we would fight tooth and nail to send these b@$tards packing, no matter how good their advocated lifestyle really is. You don't win friends by demeaning the very core of their being and threatening mass extermination.
Yes they do.
Relative newbie, not a troll. Check out his posting history.
Exactly.
Well said. Check out my post at number 15. I do think moderate Muslims need to visibly and vocally take back their faith from the extremists, however.
Their relative silence only encourages the radically anti-Islamic folks, and spooks other moderates. And also, pretending that there isn't serious problems with Islam today is just ridiculous. It does have serious problems, and these need to be dealt with by Muslims, noone else.
That being said, not all Muslims are terrorists, or sharia-advocating extremists, and pretending that all Muslims are like that is only likely to swell the ranks of the extremists and make useful suggestions likely to be taken less seriously.
The more devout the Christian, the better the man/woman they will be. The more devote the Muslim, the better terrorist they will be. Therein lies the problem.
17 major skirmishes going on in the world, 16 involve muslims NOT Christians, muslims. islam says Christ is a prophet, not the Son of God. Similiarities? Nonsense
I didn't even look. Good point.
Glad I didn't jump the gun and ping the zot list.
Islam is massive, over one billion people. It would be literally impossible to manipulate this huge 'religion' into a tool for terrorism unless the very basic tenets of mohamedism were sympathetic to the terrorists' cause. Terrorism stems from islam, which teaches hatred for the "infidel"; the two cannot reasonably be seperated, accept by the ignorant and the blind.
Thank you. I did check out your post. It was very informative and insightful.
The two biggest obstacles in moderating Islam are the terrorists and liberals. Both aim to convert Muslims into fanatics and jihadis, filled to the brim with insane hate. This accounts for stupid conspiracy theories regarding Jews and AMerica. And those they can't convert, they terrorize and ostracize into silence. Many Muslims here still have relatives back in places like Iran and Syria.
Come to think of it, there isn't any difference between the DU version of Sept. 11 and the brainwashed Muslims version.
It does sound like someone that's just confused.
Right because millions of people have never been fooled or coerced into committing evil.
bump
Good post in 15 also. But, it is about time to add into these explanations about the Nazi partnership with militant Islam. And the militant translations and influence used as control over the middle eastern people.
Heinrich Himmler and Abu Ali (<--Hitler)!
No, because one billion people have never been 'manipulated', (as the article stated), into butchering the members of every religion other than their own. And because islam has been at it for about 1,400 years and islamic "terrorism" is nothing new. Like I said, only the ignorant and the blind cannot see this reality.
"Great - get started. We're waiting."
Indeed. My "disdain for Islam" is based on reading the Koran.... Know your enemy.
Much like the NAZI party was twisted by those that interpreted it incorrectly and twisted it into a bad thing? Nonsense. The practitioners make Islam what it is. If they say its a death cult, then its a death cult. I'm not saying it calls for murdering nonbelievers, Muslims are saying this.
Islam is so similar to Christianity...
What rubbish. There is no need to look past the two religions' views on what Heaven is. In Islam it is a carnal playground of virgins and little boys. In Christianity it is a spiritual paradise.
The combination of the font and what you wrote cracked me up for some reason.
"I do think moderate Muslims need to visibly and vocally take back their faith from the extremists, however. "
The problem with this is that in order to do this, they have to make a new "faith". Islam at its heart is NOT peaceful in any way, shape, or form. The founder of Islam was a documented murdering maniac - and that's from Islamic sources. Unlike Christianity, Islam spread by the sword from the very beginning.
I'm afraid the terrorists here are the one's who understand Islam. The prevalence of Islamic charities funding jihad is in accord with Mohammad's teaching that those who do not actively want to fight (most moderates) can fund those who do.
Now, it's true that not all Muslims are terrorists - but they are one religous revival away from it.
"It does have serious problems, and these need to be dealt with by Muslims, noone else."
They desperately need a Reformation, but there is one massive stumbling block to it. Christians, for instance, believe that the Bible is divinely-inspired, but written by men. Muslims believe the Koran was directly dictated by Allah. No textural criticism of it is allowed.
"That being said, not all Muslims are terrorists, or sharia-advocating extremists, and pretending that all Muslims are like that is only likely to swell the ranks of the extremists and make useful suggestions likely to be taken less seriously."
So, it's our fault their Koran tells them to kill us? I trust you don't intend that result from your argument above. Read Sura 9.
"I'm not saying it calls for murdering nonbelievers, Muslims are saying this."
Actually, the Koran says that.
This is an idiotic statement and untrue. Christians condemn other Christians constantly if they murder or condone violence against others.
The majority of Christians would certainly sound off if some Christian organization started suicide bombing and committing other acts of terror. A case in point would be the IRA, a terrorist organization that was condemed by 90 percent of Christians world wide, and very vocally and openly. When is the last time muslims did anything but dance in the street when a Jew or Christian was killed by muslim terrorists?
Muslims all over the USA, and the rest of the world, danced and cheered on 9/11. Terrorists are 99 percent muslims and that says it all.
As for insulting islam, they need to be insulted, they are killing and murdering people all over the world in order to force their religion on other people and for no other reason, and the ones not actively killing are supporting it. If you think that doesn't warrent insults you are dumber even than you sound.
If they don't want their religion insulted, they should clean out the bad guys and show the world they can be moderate, the reason they don't is because they support the bad guys.
As for muslims being killed by other muslims, this has always happened among the different factions.
One more thing, when is the last time you heard of a Christian or Jew killing their daughter,wife or sister in an "honor" killing? Happens all the time with the peaceful muslims, doesn't it?
Two comments:
(1) The type of "Islam" that has been exported to the world by the Saudi oil money (funding "missionaries" and the building of mosques) is bent on violence and their cash has resulted in lots of converts to Muslim radicalism.
(2) Islam is in need of a "reformation" to purge it of some of its corrupt and ancient influences, just as has happened in the "Christian religions." It took some internal religious wars in Europe to remove the selling of injustices, to remove torture and execution of heretics, and to change a lot of things. Islam just needs to catch up to the age of enlightenment, so it can be tolerated by the rest of the modern world.
Anyone who threatens to kill my family will not be loved.
I wouldn't put much stock in number games. With the right words and images, it is easy to manipulate any number of people. One billion is not a stretch when you think of all the socialists and liberals in the world, with quite a significant number within our own borders.
52 million voted for a traitor and self-professed war criminal to be the President of the United States. Millions more outside America support his candidacy.
Not far-fetched at all.
Welcome to FR! How did you manage to post on July13 and sign up on July 14?
"Welcome to FR! How did you manage to post on July13 and sign up on July 14?"
No idea.
Xot.
Gvie me a quote and I will be glad to.
Correct, as well as the most vicious groups are attributed to radical Salafi Islam, but groups claiming to be 'Christian' like the Lord's Army in Uganda will rape a child's mother and cut her throat right in front of them, they will burn and steal and shoot, they are another form of radicalism.
"but groups claiming to be 'Christian' like the Lord's Army in Uganda will rape a child's mother and cut her throat right in front of them, they will burn and steal and shoot, they are another form of radicalism."
Ah, but they have no scriptural justification for this.
Unlike Muslims, who have the evil example of their prophet and the war sura that abrogates what little peace there is in the Koran.
Oh is that so? Perhaps you do not know that like us Muslims pray to Jesus and believe he is a prophet, they have a different story as to what happened to Jesus. They do know God and that by being a good person they will get into heaven, hell in the Quran is described as a fiery pit where those condemned drink from a salty well.
Give me the passages you are talking about and I will be glad to explain.
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