Posted on 06/26/2009 4:37:21 AM PDT by Dallas59
ON TV Hitler's Stealth Fighter airs Sunday, June 28, at 9 p.m. ET/PT on the National Geographic Channel. About the show >>
Top stealth-plane experts have re-created a radical, nearly forgotten Nazi aircraft: the Horten 2-29, a retro-futuristic fighter that arrived too late in World War II to make it into mass production. (See Hitler's stealth fighter in pictures.)
The engineers' goal was to determine whether the so-called stealth fighter was truly radar resistant. In the process, they've uncovered new clues to just how close Nazi engineers were to unleashing a jet that some say could have changed the course of the war.
To replicate the Ho 2-29 late last year for a documentary premiering Sunday, a team from the Northrop Grumman defense-contracting corporation used original Nazi blueprints (re-created blueprints of Hitler's stealth fighter) and the only surviving Ho 2-29, which has been stored in a U.S. government facility for more than 50 years.
The all-wing Ho 2-29 looked more like today's U.S. B-2 bomber (B-2 bomber picture)—or something from a Star Wars prequel—than like any other World War II aircraft. Made primarily of wood and powered by jet engines, the plane was designed for speeds of up to 600 miles an hour (970 kilometers an hour).
(Excerpt) Read more at news.nationalgeographic.com ...
Germany was way ahead of it’s time...Genius mixed with tyranny and horror.
Yes and I hear DaVinci invented the helicopter as well...
It looks to me like it had no chance of flying without a tail in the design and lake of computers to control wing surfaces in flight.
I suspect they would never achieved great success for the same reasons our early flying wings failed. They would have needed modern computers to make the second by second tiny adjustments that are required to keep them in the air.
Kromagg science from across the dimensions.
I'm still shaking my head after reading that sentence.
I thought “lake” was used as a synonym for “a whole bunch of”. ;-)
The problem is that a successful test flight does not mean a successful plane and weapons platform. We also flew flying wings on successful test flights but lots of times they weren’t.
If I’m not mistaken Edwards Air Force Base is named for a pilot killed during a test flight of a flying wing design.
You, Sir or Madam, are a Trufan. And if they hadn't oiled the damn gate, the series would have ended three years earlier and a whole lot better. harumph!
Not likely. There are those little pesky details of not having any fuel, or of being able to get time to train pilots in how to fly the things, or of not having airbases not under constant attack.
It takes more to control the skies than a superior aircraft.
“That had been tried before and failed time and time again,” Lee said. “Reimar Horten took the idea further and made it more practical than any other designer really up until the B-2.”
Jack Northrop (if he was still alive) might dispute that comment. The B36 and YB49 must have been at least as successful as the German plane. Somewhere I have a large poster of the YB49 in flight over the California desert...
hh
Fast forward to 2009. American policy makers worry about rogue nations like Iran and North Korea, and radical Muslim terrorists, and rightly so. However, there is general myopia about the fact that the rogue nations and the terrorists are sponsored by China and Russia. With the shrinkage of our own industrial base for a number of reasons, I must wonder if we could sustain a massive ground and naval war like the two World Wars. Additionally, given the general dumbing down of the American populace, our long term ability to keep ahead of the Russians and the Chinese in nuclear weapons and electronic and computer technology must be questioned.
Unless these questions can be addressed successfully, America's future as a superpower is in doubt. Britain and Spain lost their superpower status due to the myopia of their leadership and misguided foreign policy. Is it our turn in this century to suffer the same fate?
Bump for later when I’m at home so I can swipe that picture.
The Me 262 proved that. At its given role of bomber interception, it was fast enough and heavily-armed enough that it would be largely invulnerable to fighter escort—it could just sweep past the Mustangs and Thunderbolts, blast bombers with those four big 30mm cannon, and fly away. But there weren’t enough of them, there weren’t enough skilled pilots to fly them, and those that did see service were vulnerable during takeoff and landing from the long paved strips that they needed (and were easily spotted by Allied fighters). Plus the 262’s engines had an average life of 10 flying hours before they fell apart.
When a good pilot got a hold of an Me 262, it was a fearsome combination (witness the record of Jagdverband 44, the “air unit of the aces”). But the odds were way too stacked against Germany by that point.
I remember being able to fly the Go 229 in the old Lucasarts PC game “Secrets of the Luftwaffe,” a long time ago. They modeled it with the alleged performance figures that Horten and Gotha (the manufacturer) gave, so it really basically was a superfighter.
}:-)4
This radio-controlled model seems to fly well enough.
There was a "History Channel" program a while back that was ever so breathless about the 'potential' for late Nazi Germany technology. I turned it off when they postulated that if the war had gone just a few months longer, they might have WON! STUPIDITY of course, but it sells programs.
Frankly, I will agree that the German / Nazi machine did come up with some really great stuff but given that the USofA was CANCELING military construction from 1944 onwards, a few super planes and tanks wouldn't have made that much difference. A very good exposition on this came as an SciFi story by Arthur C Clarke "Superiority (1951)" [full story at link] detailing how he sees 'quantity having a quality of its own'.
Germany has no resources to speak of, and its vaunted industrial base allowed it to start WW2 with horse-drawn artillery and no long-range bomber. Germany was doomed from the start (but it put up a hell of a fight).
Hitler originally was going to start the war in 1946, but when he learned he had Parkinson's and would be dead before then, he decided to start right away so he could run the war.
Many of the things the military needed were not ready, but he knew he lacked time.
Japanese Zero’s had a lot of wood in them.
Germany also lost the war because, in the words of an old guy I knew said one evening after a couple of beers at the end of a certain movie, “They all got themselves KILT, or captured.”
Germany also lost the war because, as an old guy I knew said one evening after a couple of beers at the end of a certain movie, "They all got themselves KILT, or captured."
As my granddad used to say.
Stalin sure used up a lot of germans, He used up a lot of russians too.
Ping
Hitlers engineers could have easily built a computer assisted system to fly this aircraft. It was the early concept of a larger flying wing that was to have been built to deliver atomic bombs to strike American cities.
The YB aircraft that we built were based upon these concepts, actually the Skunk Works used a lot of WW2 other nation concepts.
Whats a good conspiracy story is why the YB project was canceled, all blueprints destroyed and all aircraft pieces destroyed as well. Why? Because it DID work and was probably a platform that was so efficient that the US Government was so afraid another country would build it that they decided to keep it off the production lines for decades.
Germany lost the war ‘cause they started a fight with 3 major nations, each of which had more industrial output and more population than Germany.
That they managed to take down one (France) and hold the remaining two (the UK and the USSR) at bay was near miraculous (and evidence of good planning and military doctrine on the part of the Germans). But when a fourth (the US) joined in, it was all over but counting the casualties and clearing the wreckage.
That's because "some" are idiots. They overlook the allied industrial base and the game of aeronautical one-upsmanship we played everytime the Germans rolled out something formidable. Then there's that little matter of the P-80 Shooting Star and the Gloucester Meteor, both of which had protopyes in existence by 1944 and which could have been mass produced if necessary. Just as fast or faster than the Horton, and not made of wood.
The Gloster Meteor saw some limited service in WWII, protecting the UK from Buzz bombs.
However, it is important realize the range limitation. Jets wouldn’t meet jets mostly because the Allied jets didn’t have the range to escort bombers or run sweeps in Germany. German jets, with a few exceptions, served primarily as interceptors.
*Hitler[AoE] has joined the game.*
*Eisenhower has joined the game.*
*paTTon has joined the game.*
*Churchill has joined the game.*
*benny-tow has joined the game.*
*T0J0 has joined the game.*
*Roosevelt has joined the game.*
*Stalin has joined the game.*
*deGaulle has joined the game.*
Roosevelt: hey sup
T0J0: y0
Stalin: hi
Churchill: hi
Hitler[AoE]: cool, i start with panzer tanks!
paTTon: lol more like panzy tanks
T0JO: lol
Roosevelt: o this fockin sucks i got a depression!
benny-tow: haha america sux
Stalin: hey hitler you dont fight me i dont fight u, cool?
Hitler[AoE]; sure whatever
Stalin: cool
deGaulle: **** Hitler rushed some1 help
Hitler[AoE]: lol byebye frenchy
Roosevelt: i dont got **** to help, sry
Churchill: wtf the luftwaffle is attacking me
Roosevelt: get antiair guns
Churchill: i cant afford them
benny-tow: u n00bs know what team talk is?
paTTon: stfu
Roosevelt: o yah hit the navajo button guys
deGaulle: eisenhower ur worthless come help me quick
Eisenhower: i cant do **** til rosevelt gives me an army
paTTon: yah hurry the fock up
Churchill: d00d im gettin pounded
deGaulle: this is fockin weak u guys suck
*deGaulle has left the game.*
Roosevelt: im gonna attack the axis k?
benny-tow: with what? ur wheelchair?
benny-tow: lol did u mess up ur legs AND ur head?
Hitler[AoE]: ROFLMAO
T0J0: lol o no america im comin 4 u
Roosevelt: wtf! thats bullsh1t u fags im gunna kick ur asses T0JO: not without ur harbors u wont! lol
Roosevelt: u little biotch ill get u
Hitler[AoE]: wtf
Hitler[AoE]: america hax, u had depression and now u got a huge fockin army
Hitler[AoE]: thats bullsh1t u hacker
Churchill: lol no more france for u hitler
Hitler[AoE]: tojo help me!
T0J0: wtf u want me to do, im on the other side of the world retard
Hitler[AoE]: fine ill clear you a path
Stalin: WTF u arsshoel! WE HAD A FoCKIN TRUCE
Hitler[AoE]: i changed my mind lol
benny-tow: haha
benny-tow: hey ur losing ur guys in africa im gonna need help in italy soon sum1
T0J0: o **** i cant help u i got my hands full
Hitler[AoE]: im 2 busy 2 help
Roosevelt: yah thats right ***** im comin for ya
Stalin: church help me
Churchill: like u helped me before? sure ill just sit here
Stalin: dont be an arss
Churchill: dont be a commie. oops too late
Eisenhower: LOL
benny-tow: hahahh oh sh1t help
Hitler: o man ur focked
paTTon: oh what now biotch
Roosevelt: whos the cripple now lol
*benny-tow has been eliminated.*
benny-tow: lame
Roosevelt: gj patton
paTTon: thnx
Hitler[AoE]: WTF eisenhower hax hes killing all my sh1t
Hitler[AoE]: quit u hacker so u dont ruin my record
Eisenhower: Nuts!
benny~tow: wtf that mean?
Eisenhower: meant to say nutsack lol finger slipped
paTTon: coming to get u hitler u paper hanging hun cocksocker
Stalin: rofl
T0J0: HAHAHHAA
Hitler[AoE]: u guys are fockin gay
Hitler[AoE]: ur never getting in my city
*Hitler[AoE] has been eliminated.*
benny~tow: OMG u noob you killed yourself
Eisenhower: ROFLOLOLOL
Stalin: OMG LMAO!
Hitler[AoE]: WTF i didnt click there omg this game blows
*Hitler[AoE] has left the game*
paTTon: hahahhah
T0J0: WTF my teammates are n00bs
benny~tow: shut up noob
Roosevelt: haha wut a moron
paTTon: wtf am i gunna do now?
Eisenhower: yah me too
T0J0: why dont u attack me o thats right u dont got no ships lololol
Eisenhower: fock u
paTTon: lemme go thru ur base commie
Stalin: go to hell lol
paTTon: fock this sh1t im goin afk
Eisenhower: yah this is gay
*Roosevelt has left the game.*
Hitler[AoE]: wtf?
Eisenhower: sh1t now we need some1 to join
*tru_m4n has joined the game.*
tru_m4n: hi all
T0J0: hey
Stalin: sup
Churchill: hi
tru_m4n: OMG OMG OMG i got all his stuff!
tru_m4n: NUKES! HOLY **** I GOT NUKES
Stalin: d00d gimmie some plz
tru_m4n: no way i only got like a couple
Stalin: omg dont be gay gimmie nuculer secrets
T0J0: wtf is nukes?
T0J0: holy ****holy****hoyl****!
*T0J0 has been eliminated.*
*The Allied team has won the game!*
Eisenhower: awesome!
Churchill: gg noobs no re
T0J0: thats bull**** u fockin suck
*T0J0 has left the game.*
*Eisenhower has left the game.*
Stalin: next game im not going to be on ur team, u guys didnt help me for ****
Churchill: wutever, we didnt need ur help neway dumbarss tru_m4n: l8r all
benny~tow: bye
Churchill: l8r
Stalin: fock u all
tru_m4n: shut up commie lol
*tru_m4n has left the game.*
benny~tow: lololol u commie
Churchill: ROFL
Churchill: bye commie
*Churchill has left the game.*
*benny~tow has left the game.*
Stalin: i hate u all fags
*Stalin has left the game.*
paTTon: lol no1 is left
paTTon: weeeee i got a jeep
*paTTon has been eliminated.*
paTTon: o sh1t!
*paTTon has left the game.*
I'm not a Gamer, but Jesu, what great detail went into that game! Back about 1991 I played around with it on a 386-20 with no joystick. What got me was the detail - for instance, you could bail out and by using the down arrow, pan down to look at the scenery coming up.
One session had you flying on a B-17 mission. The planes had nose art but I couldn't make them out - program wouldn't let me get close enough. A buddy of mine flew a P-51 on the same mission, and was able to get in close enough to make out the artwork. Just amazing. (When I watch the ending of "Best Years of Our Lives", I almost let out a cry of anguish when I see all the parked B-17s with their nose art and missions, waiting to be scrapped. What a historical loss!)
I also found out something interesting about myself. I decided to play a ME-109 pilot and attack said B-17s. As I came in, all I could think about was the dozens of pictures I had seen of those big birds going down with their crews. Man, I locked up and couldn't make the attack. What to do? I flew back to the base and crashed the plane into the hangar. Wish I had that old machine and game now.
Flight is not the problem. Anything with rockets strapped to it can fly. It's a successful landing that makes the difference.
Sadly for decades the Airforce was ruled by macho image jocks, the most successful aircraft in history were often condemned because they did not seem “manly”.The P-38 first came to my mind. And to an extent it happens to this day, the Thunderbolt II “Warthog” was despised because it looked like an aberration, but as we all know its a highly effective attack airframe.
She'll fly a lot faster if they remove that giant steel cone from her belly.
That’s classic.
And I bet that tail gunner gets pretty cold from the wind whipping around him. Seems like painting his station red sure isn't very stealthy either.
I’ve always thought that the P-38 was the greatest looking airplane in the war.
Getting Yamamoto was the icing on the cake for that aircraft.
There are modern planes today made of playwood.
Yep, it is wasn’t sharp and pointy they didn’t want it. Hence, we had really bad aircraft throughout the 50’s and 60’s. Fast, but not very good at anything. Remember the Air Force fought even using the F-16 until budget cuts caused them to rethink that position.
The British Mosquito was made of wood.
Wood was used for a number of designs because it wasn’t a strategic material; Germany used up a lot of metal in its war effort. Metals shortages pulled the plug on the A-10 terror rocket project, which had as its goal bombing New York City. The A-9 warhead/spacecraft loaded with high explosives (and presumably, eventually a nuclear weapon) would have been live piloted, and after terminal trajectory was locked in (and sufficiently low altitude), the pilot was to bail out, parachute into the ocean, and be picked up by U-boat. :’)
The obvious alternative (hindsight being 20-20) would have been A) not invading the USSR, or at least not in 1940, and B) concentrating on domination of the Mediterranean, finishing off the British in N Africa and the Suez Canal, and shutting down the British navy by denying them petroleum. Imagine the level of carnage had the resources used in the eastern campaign been diverted first to N Africa and the Med, and then to a terror missile campaign against a starving home island.
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