Posted on 01/02/2010 5:26:21 AM PST by freedomyes
Have we remembered that one of the ways of leveling the whole situation is forgiving the enemy? Jesus admonished His children: “Pray for those who persecute you, despitefully use you.” Jesus followed through with His own counsel: “Father, forgive them for they do not know what they are doing.”
(Excerpt) Read more at zenithmax.wordpress.com ...
I
KNOW
FROM VERY HARD PERSONAL EXPERIENCE,
IT IS NOT
impossible to forgive the same offense over and over and over.
There is a time when God may require me to stand up to the offense, prevent the offense or even punish the offense.
THAT’S DIFFERENT AND DOES NOT NECESSARILY HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH MY HEART AND SPIRIT AND WILL TO CHOOSE FORGIVENESS.
FORGIVENESS IS MY DUTY TO MY GOD WHO HAS FORGIVEN ME SO MUCH.
It was a small offense, Amos.
Scripture instructs that there’s a time to hold to account and a time to let it go.
I believe that one is fitting to let it go, regardless.
FORGIVENESS
HAS NOTHING TO DO
with allowing evil to thrive.
FORGIVENESS is about my humility, my forgiveness, resisting my pride
AND RESIGNING FROM BEING PROSECUTOR, JUDGE AND JURY AND INSISTING THAT GOD BE IN ALL THOSE ROLES VS ME PLAYING GOD.
WELL PUT.
WELL PUT:
###
All God asks of you is to trust and obey. Remember that old-time hymn? “Trust and obey for there’s no other way to be happy in Jesus but to trust and obey.”
That’s it—start to finish.
The Bible tells us that God’s ways and thoughts are far above ours. Therefore, stay out of deciphering God’s ways and thoughts and let God be God.
Just trust and obey God in the moment.
FORGIVENESS
IS ANYTHING BUT WIMPY.
HOLY SPIRIT alone can give us the specific instructions and wisdom for when to turn the other cheek and when to stand up firmly and fiercely to evil.
HE REQUIRES THAT WE BE WILLING TO DO EITHER AND WHATEVER HE INSTRUCTS IN BETWEEN.
Nevertheless,
HE REQUIRES US
to FORGIVE REGARDLESS—24/7.
INDEED:
######
As has been said upthread, Faith in Jesus/Yeshuah is not for the faint of heart or the cowardly.
You are called to live in Jesus/Yeshuah’s example, to let His Spirit come into you and live in you...and he was never wimpy. But his method of warfare does not involve hatred of his enemies.
A person can fight without a heart filled with hatred. If your fight is energized by hatred, you won’t go far.
On the other hand, if your fight is energized by His Spirit, while it won’t be necessarily be fun, you will be victorious (and there is great satisfaction in fighting as He commands)
If you think those of us who try to live as he commands are choosing a wimpy way of life...you haven’t tried it yet.
Martyrdom (that’s what he calls us to) is not for cowards. He calls you and all of us to lay down our lives for Him. He calls us to give up our rights to ourselves and that involves our emotions (such as hatred and blame).
Dying to Him is probably the most frightening thing in life (except not dying for Him).
You sound like someone who knows all the right words but is standing on the brink of absolute conversion (of course, I might be wrong and ask your forgiveness if I am).
That said, if I can be of assistance (I am only a humble servant of Him)...please let me know.
You don’t KNOW that David did not forgive Goliath. Scripture doesn’t say one way or the other.
None of your other examples preclude forgiveness at all.
Lots of things are plausible.
The Scriptures I cited above insure clearly that GOD’S ATTITUDE TOWARD US IS THAT WE MUST BE FORGIVING REGARDLESS, IF WE WANT FORGIVEN, REGARDLESS . . . OR EVEN . . . IF WE WANT FORGIVEN AT ALL.
If I take it upon myself to forgive anothers damage I am acting outside of what is required...
Maybe I didn’t communciate my heart or thought well.
I’m talking about forgiving things done to me . . . or anything I have any connection with.
I could forgive things done to my child, or loved one, for example.
I can forgive the Japanese for Pearl Harbor.
And, ON OCCASION, God has had me pronounce forgiveness over others because they needed to hear His forgiveness spoken tangibly. That was always following repentance, IIRC.
The Scriptures I listed take priority, of course, over any of my pontifications.
I just think folks are not very thoughtful about the implications of each of those Scriptures. Folks tend to take a narrow view of each of those Scriptures.
I think it is God’s nature to take a broad view of those Scriptures.
He is looking for Biblical ‘excuse’ to save people not excuse to damn them.
I’ll tell you an interesting humbling experience by FREEPMAIL.
Using all caps doesn’t really help your argument. Why do I need to be preached at on a conservative political site, by newbies?
But I have no obligation to say to someone standing over another with a smoking gun, I forgive you....thats dumb...the victim on the ground has that power..
I think I would have the obligation to hit the guy with the smoking gun over the head with a 2 X 4...thats my obligation.
I can forgive damage done to me and only to me....I can say I forgive you the pain you have given me, but not the pain you have given to another...
I will be glad to read your freepmail...:O)
You are welcome to read my home page about CAPS. I happen to enjoy them.
My screen is 4 feet from my aging eyes.
Your choice to be offended by CAPS will have to be your problem. I don’t receive it as mine.
In terms of being preached at . . . scroll by any thread you are disinclined to read. If you don’t like what’s written, take responsibility for reading it.
We all have freedom to disagree, rebut, whatever’s reasonable in response.
Ranting about someone being a newbie seems . . . arrogant, to me.
I understand your perspective and its logic.
My perspective has been . . . born out of much suffering. It is much broader and there is no possible way it can shrink back to where it used to be.
God has been extremely emphatic with me about forgiveness. I’ve never found it fruitful nor wise to argue with Him—not in Scripture, not in dialogue.
I have seen nothing insulting in what you have said and agree with you....perhaps some have a thin skin, that is not insulting just stating a fact..we all have different opinions and disagree on many things. To report a disagreement, its not the mods job to take sides..IMHO
You are falling for Satan's lies.
Satan says, "you have a right to be angry, not to forgive!"
What Satan doesn't tell you is that anger weakens you and consumes your spirit.
He tells you that anger makes you strong. Just another lie!
Anger is an emotion...nothing more. It is an outward expression of self pity.
That's what you are spreading when you tell people not to forgive. You are telling them to blame others for their situation. You are telling people that it is good to hold onto grudges...not to forgive what others have done to them. You are telling people to be small and puny (and calling it bravery)...you are spreading a lie!
Bottom line: You are spreading self pity.
If you think that's strong, you need to ponder it for a while.
It is the very essence of wimpiness (reread the title of this thread).
Earthdweller I have to agree with you. Evil is evil and must be dealt with in an expedient manner. Turning the other cheek results in getting bitch slapped once again.
I summize God and Jesus both believe in self defense. Force should always be met with superior force, if called for in any situation.
Liberals pull the cover over their heads when a thug breaks into their houses, threatening bodily harm. Far better to be judged by twelve and not carried by six.
Liberals count on the common man to embrace this tripe “turning the other cheek mentality” to control Real Patriotic Americans, allowing evil to flourish.
Those who preach this pacifist nonsense remind me of the “liberal mush brained” Preacher in the movie “ZULU.”
All intelligent freepers should go out today and buy another gun to perturb those obama spit sucking liberal tyrants in our midst.
P.S For all those malcontents and fanatic bible thumpers, turning the cheek to evil is a quick way for a dirt nap in these times.
Molon Labe, Keep the Faith,
NSNR
Thank you for your insight and calming words.
I am in agreement with you that forgiveness comes out of a recognition of our own sinfulness. It is also true that sin is sometimes done in the face of good and as a reaction to good. That is the sin, done against us, that we are most incapable of forgiving.
One of the most difficult teachings has been to ask my listeners to acknowledge that we are as guilty as Judas. He was, after all, included in Jesus’ prayer. “There but for the Grace of God go I” includes Judas.
I have become angered, of late, by the incursion of bitter acrimony and insulting attacks among Freepers. Some posters consider it their prerogative to treat others as inferior and stupid. that is the tenor of the comment on which I commented.
One of the hallmarks of this site has been the high level of debate that many have nurtured. It ought not be sullied by slander an demeaning references.
Again, thank you for your kindnesses and insight.
Satan says, “you have a right to be angry, not to forgive!”
What Satan doesn’t tell you is that anger weakens you and consumes your spirit.
He tells you that anger makes you strong. Just another lie!
Anger is an emotion...nothing more. It is an outward expression of self pity.
That’s what you are spreading when you tell people not to forgive. You are telling them to blame others for their situation. You are telling people that it is good to hold onto grudges...not to forgive what others have done to them. You are telling people to be small and puny (and calling it bravery)...you are spreading a lie!
Bottom line: You are spreading self pity.
#######
WELL PUT.
THX.
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