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Birtherism For Dummies
Vanity | 02/19/2010 | Wizard1961

Posted on 02/19/2010 5:51:27 AM PST by wizard1961

If BHO is removed from office because he is not a natural citizen, he then becomes a race martyr and Biden becomes president. Hillary probably becomes VP. How would this help conservatives in 2010 and 2012 -- it would hurt us, right?

If the Lewinsky debacle had removed Clinton, Gore would have become President and cruised to his own electorial victory. This would have been a disaster.

I agree there is a puzzle here. I agree there is free speech & everyone has a right to pursue this. My question: is there some angle here that I've missed that makes this smart?


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: birthcertificate; birther; birthers; certifigate; naturalborncitizen; obama; sniff; teaper
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To: y6162

“Any questions?”

Yes. Are you concerned that by repeating “Kenyan Imposter” it may become harder to win elections?

IMO, we should request standard documents from all Presidents, VPs, Senators, and Reps.


101 posted on 02/19/2010 8:49:51 AM PST by wizard1961 (Teaper says: For 2010, let Sarah be Sarah)
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To: John Valentine
You sir, I must deem to fall within this category.

Shall we duel at dawn? Pistols or swords?

102 posted on 02/19/2010 9:38:58 AM PST by browardchad ("Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own fact." - Daniel P Moynihan)
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To: wizard1961
Politically, I think this could work.

I agree.

103 posted on 02/19/2010 9:52:51 AM PST by Fresh Wind ("...a whip of political correctness strangles their voice"-Vaclav Klaus on GW skeptics)
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To: browardchad

I’m a live and let live sort of guy, that is beyond categorizing folks per their positions on issues.


104 posted on 02/19/2010 10:09:42 AM PST by John Valentine
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To: browardchad

Article II states POTUSA shall be a ‘natural born citizen’. this isfact not interprtation. Article I Section 8 embeds the Law of Nations into the Constitution and intentionally so at the Founding Convention. This is fact not interpretation. The Law of Nations is specific that a natural born citizen is one ‘ born in the country of parentS who are it’s citizenS’. This is fact not interpretation. These facts are part of the many issues involved about BHO.


105 posted on 02/19/2010 10:12:56 AM PST by noinfringers
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To: browardchad; John Valentine
Uh, no. It has never been actually defined in the context of Section 1 Article 2,

Oh -- so then for 220 years of American electoral history, no one running for the Presidency knew what it meant???? It was just a coincidence that all of them except one met the qualifications of "natural born citizen" defined by Justice Marshall in The Venus case as early as 1824???

so it therefore defaults to the accepted interpretation, in the year of 2010, of what a natural born citizen is:

Oh --- so then we in 2010 get to change the meaning of the words of a document written 220 years ago??? Can we change the definition again in 4 years and 4 years after that???

Isn't it true that your real name is Humpty Dumpty???

106 posted on 02/19/2010 10:13:20 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: wizard1961

How one expends his or her time is up to the individual. If folks want to spend seconds or hours on the question of the eligibility of Barack Obama to serve as President of the United States and Commander in Chief of its armed forces is up to each of them. More time was spent on the passing of Anna Nicole Smith and the philandering of Tiger Woods. So that time expenditure question is a red herring.

The eligibility question goes beyond the mere presentation of a ‘long form’ birth certificate. That is almost a diversion, but does point out the lengths to which Obama and Co. have gone to sequester his entire life’s history. His is gonna be one helluva presidential library. Perhaps a Hall of Mirrors would be appropriate.

The Framers were very concerned with and specific about qualifications for holding office in the new government they were founding: most notably in the qualifications to serve as President of the United States and Commander in Chief of its armed forces. Only there did they specify that the POTUS must be a ‘natural born’ citizen.

Unfortunately the Framers did not define for future generations what they understood that term to mean. We can only speculate about its meaning as there is no one alive today from the original group of Framers. (I speculate that those Framers would consider the need for definition of ‘natural born’ similar to defining ‘is’).

Thus, that definition is left to the Supreme Court. At some point, the High Court will have to clarify that phrase, if not now with the Obama situation, at some point in the future. It is and will remain a very viable question for the High Court to determine. It will not be resolved with various online arguments one way or the other.


107 posted on 02/19/2010 10:24:29 AM PST by EDINVA (Sarchasm (n): The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.)
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To: browardchad; wintertime; BushCountry; DJ MacWoW; IntolerantOfTreason; SaraJohnson; mad_as_he$$; ...
Federal Servant Disclosure Petition

I request the following list of sitting Federal servants all post their college and military records as well as their birth certificates on the US.GOV website: US Senators, members of the US House of Representatives, cabinet level appointees, and both the President and Vice President.

Going forward, all candidates for these offices and positions should post this information at least 30 days prior to their election, nomination, or appointment.

108 posted on 02/19/2010 10:25:36 AM PST by wizard1961 (Teaper says: For 2010, let Sarah be Sarah)
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To: browardchad

Article II states POTUSA shall be a ‘natural born citizen’. this isfact not interprtation. Article I Section 8 embeds the Law of Nations into the Constitution and intentionally so at the Founding Convention. This is fact not interpretation. The Law of Nations is specific that a natural born citizen is one ‘ born in the country of parentS who are it’s citizenS’. This is fact not interpretation. These facts are part of the many issues involved about BHO.


109 posted on 02/19/2010 10:35:48 AM PST by noinfringers
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To: EDINVA

“How one expends his or her time is up to the individual.”

I totally agree. What I meant, though, was there is a limited opportunity (more than time) for any group to pitch their objectives.

This is why the MSM is desperate to “stamp” both The Tea Partiers and Sarah Palin as objectionable. Once people think the already know “you” it is hard to earn a fresh look.

IMO, as soon as a person says “Kenya” the audience will immediately “know” who you “are” and will stop listening.


110 posted on 02/19/2010 10:57:09 AM PST by wizard1961 (Teaper says: For 2010, let Sarah be Sarah)
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To: wizard1961

I’ll take Biden any old day. At least he isn’t a pathological narcissist, Marxist, thug and he wouldn’t get every black person in the US, most that have never even voted before, come out to vote for him. Voting for color is insane and dangerous. You vote for the most qualified and the one that will be able to lead, NOT RULE!


111 posted on 02/19/2010 11:05:11 AM PST by mojitojoe (“Medicine is the keystone of the arch of socialism.” - Vladimir Lenin)
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To: browardchad

112 posted on 02/19/2010 11:06:43 AM PST by mojitojoe (“Medicine is the keystone of the arch of socialism.” - Vladimir Lenin)
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To: John Valentine
I’m a live and let live sort of guy, that is beyond categorizing folks per their positions on issues.

I'm not sure if that was said tongue-in-cheek, but either way, it made me laugh.

What was it you "categorized" me as? Oh, yes, an "apologist for perfidy."

113 posted on 02/19/2010 11:15:27 AM PST by browardchad ("Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own fact." - Daniel P Moynihan)
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To: wizard1961
My question: is there some angle here that I've missed that makes this smart?

What is that end?

Support and defense of the Constitution of the United States. Maybe you don't care about that part of it, and care more for partisan political advantage. But if you don't defend it all, what part(s) will Obummer ignore next? Maybe a part you do care about?

I, El Gato, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

The Constitution doesn't require sucn an oath for no reason you know. That's reason enough for me.

114 posted on 02/19/2010 11:16:04 AM PST by El Gato ("The second amendment is the reset button of the US constitution"-Doug McKay)
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To: DJ MacWoW
Especially when you have nothing with which to debate a professor.

You're a professor? I'm, uh...impressed. Yes, that's the ticket: impressed.

115 posted on 02/19/2010 11:17:42 AM PST by browardchad ("Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own fact." - Daniel P Moynihan)
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To: browardchad
It has never been actually defined in the context of Section 1 Article 2, so it therefore defaults to the accepted interpretation, in the year of 2010, of what a natural born citizen is: a person born in the United States, or born to one or two U.S. citizens abroad, with certain limitations prescribed by Congress.

So you would redefine the meaning of the Constitution, not only with an amendment, without even a vote in Congress? The meaning that counts is the 1787 meaning, not what 50% + 1 can be convinced is the "today" meaning.

116 posted on 02/19/2010 11:19:55 AM PST by El Gato ("The second amendment is the reset button of the US constitution"-Doug McKay)
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To: noinfringers

The “Law of Nations” referenced in the Constitution refers to international law, not a treatise by de Vattel. Yes, I know it’s capitalized, but so are many other terms that don’t refer to proper nouns, titles or names. It was the writing style of that era.


117 posted on 02/19/2010 11:21:06 AM PST by browardchad ("Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own fact." - Daniel P Moynihan)
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To: El Gato

I asked for the end, you gave me the reason. I agree with your reason, but I question the tactics. Please see my BLUE comment just a few comments up.

I have addressed the concern you raised several times. Essentially, I am looking for the best way to go forward. The COTUS has been damaged hundreds of times... what is the best way to turn things around?

IMO, we need to maintain what I call “the Teaper Surge” so we can win elections & counter the MSM Narrative Machine. I think tactics matter, and those who say “Kenya” will be immediately marginalized.

Is there another way to pursue the goal that will be more effective?


118 posted on 02/19/2010 11:23:00 AM PST by wizard1961 (Teaper says: For 2010, let Sarah be Sarah)
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To: wizard1961
Hillary as VP could become a problem.

Yea, for whoever is the President.

119 posted on 02/19/2010 11:24:44 AM PST by El Gato ("The second amendment is the reset button of the US constitution"-Doug McKay)
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To: wizard1961
Maybe, but I see that as the ONLY way the dems might retain the POTUS in 2012. Sympathy

Yea, it worked so well for Gerald Ford.

There would be no sympathy for a man and a party, who knew, or should have known, that their standard bearer was not eligible to the Oficce of President, and allowed him to represent them anyway. None.

Likely it would destroy the Democratic party.

120 posted on 02/19/2010 11:30:02 AM PST by El Gato ("The second amendment is the reset button of the US constitution"-Doug McKay)
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