Posted on 08/11/2010 5:10:45 AM PDT by marktwain
Capt. John Raguso keeps threatening to send us a review of Kel Tec’s smokin’ SUB-2000 9mm carbine. Today, Hi-Point Carbines drops the news that their long awaited .45 ACP rifle is ready to rock and roll. These handgun-caliber carbine may be gaining favor over the venerable 12-gauge as the weapon of choice for hom defense. And for good reason. In fact, here are four. . .
1. Less recoil than a shotgun
While home defense shotguns put an awful lot of lead downrange with a single trigger squeeze, shooters pay the price with a big ole’ wallop to their shoulder. That’s no big thing for big people who’re comfortable with firearms (who may, in fact, like the kick). And in the heat of battle, who cares? But if a gun is formidable to fire (i.e. painful), its owners are FAR less likely to practice. If they don’t, they will not be confident and accurate.
Even in .45 ACP, handgun-caliber carbines have minimal recoil, relatively speaking. The lower recoil makes the rifles far more attractive to women, teens and (let’s be honest here) small-framed men. They can also put a lot of lead downrange. BONUS! Quick mag changes are easier than reloading a shotgun.
2. Quieter than a shotgun
The state prohibitions against silencers really piss me off. (Somebody was watching way too many spy movies.) Meanwhile, shotguns are ridiculously, enormously loud. While a handgun caliber carbine will make plenty of noise, a shooter stands a chance of being able to hear something after firing—which could save their life. Comparing the two firearms genres, handgun caliber rifles will definitely reduce a shooter’s chances of permanent, perhaps even catastrophic hearing loss.
3. Better than a handgun
So’s a shotgun. But again, there are plenty of people who find shotguns intimidating. In that sense, handgun caliber carbines hit the sweet spot. Thanks to the carbines longer sight radius, they’re easier to aim than a handgun, And more intimidating (i.e. visible)
Handgun caliber carbines increase bullet speed and, thus, penetration. Hi-Point says their .45 ACP’s longer barrel increases velocity figures between 80-200 FPS (feet per second) over a like-chambered handgun.
4. Less expensive
To my way of thinking, a semi-automatic weapon is the best home defense shotgun. A good one costs the thick end of a grand. This Hi-Point .45 ACP Carbine costs $330. The SUB-2000 goes for $409.
I love shotguns. But the handgun caliber carbines may be better for more people. The market will speak.
Specifications for Hi-Point .45 ACP Carbine:
Price: $330 MSRP Finish: Special high-durability black powder coat Stock: Black molded polymer-(with standard upper and lower Picatinny rails). Barrel length: 171/2-inches Overall length: 33-inches Weight: 71/2-pounds. Magazine capacity: 9-rounds. Sight: Adjustable front post and adjustable rear (ghost ring) Warranty: Lifetime on parts and labor that follows the gun. Manufacturer: Hi-Point of Mansfield Ohio-every part is made in the U.S.A. Factory affordable options are available: Folding grip, laser, scope sight, etc.
AMEN!
And you don't have to worry about collateral damage on the other side of your sheet rock.
I agree that any most .410 shot shell loads are pretty useless except for snakes (or perhaps issuing a wide area wake-up call). I have worked with #4 and #7 shot loads at 15' thru my judge and they completely and evenly cover a large silhouette target (probably with considerable overspray.)
I agree that .410 slugs are useless when you have the option of using .45LC instead.
.410 000 is another matter. I have had absolutley no problem finding a variety of 2.5" handgun loads. In my area, I've had a lot more trouble finding .45LC than .410 handgun ammo. Winchester packs 3 pellets to the shell and Federal makes a 4 pellet load, each with a muzzle velocity over 1200fps. Each pellet is essentially the diameter of a .38 and I usually get about an 8-10" group at 15' on a large silhouette at the range. Five pulls of the trigger and target is pretty much destroyed. Precise shot placement is not an issue, it's pretty much point and click.
And the reviewer should note the Judge is available with a 2.5" chamber OR a 3" chamber.
Try www.promagindustries.com for the magazine. I just ordered a couple of Llama mags from them.
yeah, but I don’t care if the criminal laughs at my ugly gun... gives me more time to work on my grouping. plus with a lifetime (of the gun) no questions asked warranty, and a price that is unbeatable, works for me. 150 rounds through mine so far and not a single problem.
One thing that needs to be remembered is that a shotgun with a pistol grip and a short barrel is AKA a “wrist breaker.”
Years ago, my dad really wanted one, so I bought him a Mossberg 500 for Christmas. After a few rounds of buckshot through it, he traded it off for something else. (^;
Either way, the BATF will define the trigger as a machine gun.
“I’ve seen this illogical reasoning posted many times and couldn’t disagree more.”
It is only illogical to the logic challenged. It is the rare burglar who enters a home knowing the occupants are present. Those that do are looking for thrills as well as cash. They are not looking for an armed confrontation although they may be prepared for one. So put yourself in this burglar’s shoes. You have entered a house that may be occupied. You suddenly learn that your presence has been detected by the sound of a shotgun being racked. The sound comes from behing a closed (possibly locked) door. You do not know the layout of the room the sound came from, how many opponents there are, or their location. You DO know they are well armed and ready. IMO only a suicidal psycho is going to try and enter that room. Situation defused without having to kill someone, blow out my ears and my wife’s, clean up a huge mess, spend time in a police station, hire a lawyer, etc.
On the off chance that someone decides to come through that door they have demonstrated hostile intent and likely VERY determined to kill you. Although I sometimes piss people off, but I haven’t pissed anyone off THAT MUCH in decades. If you come through that door, it’s not going to be pretty.
“I would never give an intruder any idea of my position, nor any idea that my weapon was not ready to be fired.”
What you’ve told him is that your weapon is ready to be fired NOW. I doubt he cares that it wasn’t ready a minute ago.
Both arguments have merit.
Firing cannot be undone and will cost you $100,000.00 in legal fees for a “clean” shoot in some states.
Armed BG in your house, in a state with a Castle Doctrine law, - you are probably left with some sheetrock and trim work.
Other situations - all bets are off.
My thoughts, too. You take away any tactical advantage of surprise by racking a shotgun before you fire. If someone enters your house knowing that you're home and possibly armed why give them the knowledge of how you're armed and your position?
You can go old school, "Gatling" style.
It needs the 50 round drum magazine.
...AND the horses you rode in on!
Who makes?
The idea is that when you grab it, you immediately cycle it and put it on safe, rather than cycling it when you see the bad guy.
Round hits em before they can hear the sound ! Quiet death !
“”This is a commonly accepted fallacy. If you have to “rack” a shotgun you are at a disadvantage already.””
“My thoughts, too. You take away any tactical advantage of surprise by racking a shotgun before you fire. If someone enters your house knowing that you’re home and possibly armed why give them the knowledge of how you’re armed and your position?”
While racking might let someone know what room you are in, it wont tell them WHERE in the room you are (assuming you are not in the same room to begin with), what you might be barracaded behind or how many people there are. In your scenario, he already knows someone is home, I see no disadvantage to letting him know that I am ready, and armed with the deadliest close range weapon available. How does letting an intruder know you have a shotgun put you at a disadvantage? Unless you actually want to kill someone, giving him the chance to bug out in the face of almost certain death is a smart choice.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.