Posted on 06/03/2011 7:29:16 PM PDT by Winstons Julia
I was raised Lutheran and have attended many churches. I was born-again in 2005. I was shocked to have a Catholic tell me that *we* aren't saved by grace alone ... but that we need to recharge our salvation with works.
Now ... it's not that I'm not charitable and kind. We all know the studies about Christians and charitable giving.
But *I'M* NOT saved by Grace? Are you kidding?
I’m not Catholic but I was taught that works are an outward manifestation of accepting Christ. Works won’t save you but it does show a changed heart by sharing what you’ve been given. Helping others DOES make one feel good or “recharged”.
“The question is, what do YOU believe? “
I can assure you that I’m not some troll. I don’t even know why you would suggest that.
I have said what I believe. I believe that we are saved by grace, not works.
Apparently ... some people disagree. I posted the thread so that I could get some insight from the Free Republic community.
And it’s STILL confusing regarding what people believe.
I’m not trying to sow bad seeds or foment discontent... I am seeking answers.
False.
I will tell you what Catholics believe and what the Vatican has proclaimed regarding non-Catholic Christians. From CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH
RESPONSES TO SOME QUESTIONS REGARDING CERTAIN ASPECTS
OF THE DOCTRINE ON THE CHURCH.
(about non-Catholic Christian churches.
“It follows that these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value derives from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church”
In other words, if you walk in the steps of Jesus, you can make it to heaven. It’s grace, period.
Ask your Catholic friend what his/her idea of being saved came from. Then quote the Vatican.
You keep posting this cartoon... is it meant to be an insult?
“As a Catholic you must keep canon law to be saved.”
Really? Sez who?
It speaks for itself. Why did you post this thread again?
May we know a few things about this Catholic? Does he or she has any credentials of his/her authority to teach? Is there any reason to think that he or she speaks with any authority about Catholic doctrine. Do you think there's some scholarship here?
I would want to here the exact wording your friend used. But God is the source of every good thing. TO imagine that any fallen human could come up with a truly good work without Divine Favor is nuts.
Mad Dawg is the person to ask. The one with all the answers.
Now THAT’S helpful!
I’m pleased to know that the Catholic Church doesn’t consider me to be some heretic because I don’t belong....
so that means you can be a sh!t yer whole life as long as you believe in the Lord... right???
I wondered when James would enter the picture. It is my understanding that Lutheran seminarians are given the task of reconciling James and his emphasis on good works (which it seems to me is really the heart of Jewish rather than Christian theology) with the statements of Christ himself. As I recall, Lutheran theologians say it cannot be done.
I hope this was said this in ignorance because I hope no one wouldn’t deliberately lie to people to make a point.
OK, but Paul warns us - "Whoever thinks he is standing secure should take care not to fall" (1 Cor. 10:11–12).
And don’t forget – “Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father” Galatians 1:4
Might deliver us is a far way from any certainty.
Paul told the Christians in Rome that “God ‘will repay each person according to what they have done.’ To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. (Rom. 2:6–8).
Clearly, what you do and your persistence is rewarded by God.
Then again in Timothy: “Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him. (2 Tim. 2:11–12).
So it makes sense that if we do not endure, we shall not reign with him.
The Bible does not teach that Christians have a guarantee of heaven. There can be no absolute assurance of salvation. Paul said, "See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God’s kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness, otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22–23
Note that Paul includes the important condition: "provided you remain in his kindness." He is saying that Christians can lose their salvation by throwing it away. So are we saved? Yes. I have been redeemed by the blood of Christ, I trust in Him alone for my salvation, and, as the Bible teaches, I am ‘working out my salvation in fear and trembling’ (Phil. 2:12), knowing that it is God’s gift of Grace that is working in me.
Wow,:)Thanks Winstons Julia ((((Hugs))))
I have said why I posted the thread.
I posted the thread because I encountered (elsewhwere) a Catholic who told me we are saved by works. But I have encountered Catholics here on Free Republic that tell me I must become a member of “the one true church” ... meaning theirs.
Personally, I think THAT Catholic I encountered might be one of the “Christian socialists” we are seeing these days.
But this person surprised me by saying that I must do “works” to be saved.
I live my life for Christ. I do works for Christ that I don’t talk about ...but I was shocked that this Christian would say that we are not saved by “grace”...
Have I answered you now??
Well, please articulate the question. Not being snotty,not on purpose anyway. Is thee question about God and grace and stuff? Or is it about what the Catholic Church teaches? Or is it about what the average catholic believes?
I, Catholic, RCIA teacher, happy D00d, think that it is ALL the gift of God's love and favor. ALL of it. IF I make a good choice, that's from God.
I’ve heard Protestants say:
- Jesus was gay.
- The Bible was a fraud.
- The Resurrection never happened.
- Mother Teresa is in hell.
- Every Catholic is going to hell.
- Every Catholic priest is a child molestor.
- Every Catholic pay person chooses to protect priests who are molestors.
- Angels don’t exist.
- Mary Magdalen was Jesus’ lover.
- The Rapture was going to happen last week (and now on Oct. 21st of whatever).
In other words, there are plenty of stupid, ignorant, ill-informed Protestants. Why would you think every Catholic isn’t stupid, ignorant or ill-informed.
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