Arguing (?) with an Obama Supporter

As I noted on another post, I recently, accidentally, hit the dreaded “Reply All” to a post from a third party. The issue involved who is to blame for Obama and his disastrous, destructive policies. One of the “Reply All” people replied with a barrage of Leftist insanity. The argument continues.

For the education of my fellow Freepers, here is a collection to date. I post this as an anecdotal but representative sample of the pro-Obama, delusional Left. This may strike some as simply amusing. It is not. It is what we have to face in 2012 and beyond. Misspellings left intact.

Regarding Obama’s Libyan War, Obama’s “Arab Spring,” Obama’s tripling the national debt in two years, and Obama’s clear hatred of the military (he can’t get the names of MOH recipients straight; Bush still visits wounded vets in the hospital – Obama doesn’t have the time); Obama refuses to admit he’s a Marxist; The Lovely Michelle grows to the size of a linebacker while scolding the rest of us to lose weight; Obama surrounds himself with elite college dorks who couldn’t run a gas station (8% of his people have ever worked outside of the government or college faculty – the lowest in history); Obama forbids our drilling for the 200 years worth of oil and the 300 years worth of coal in our own country as fuel prices skyrocket; Obama craps all over business and then pretends surprise when businesses can no longer afford to hire new workers.

Conservatives are eager to send out anything anti Obama without checking for accuracy… From what I can see, conservatives are single issue voters and as long as the party is "anti abortion", the millionares can sucker the little guy into going along with the massive tax breaks for millionares and billinares, and the country is on tailspin toward third world status, having only the very wealthy and the very poor as long as conservatives run the house.

When Bush took over the country from Clinton, he inherited a balance budget and Clinton paid down $1 trillion on natl debt, yet you just heard negative from conservatives about Clinton.

If you can't answer the following questions, there must be something questionable about the conservative party.

Bush was soon running record deficits, yet I never got one complaint from a conservative.

1.What happened to cause the record deficits and why didn't conservatives complain?

2. Bush started the Iraq war through a lie that's sent 4400 Americans home in body bags, mained 43,000 and millions have PTSD, yet I never got one complaint from a conservative. Why didn't conservatives complain? (Conservatives are eager to send a negative about Obama not having a flag behind him, and that hardly compares to starting a war with a lie that we've been losing troops and money to for 8 years)

3. I voted for Bush the first time, then found he'd lied about starting the Iraq war because they had "WMD's", yet the UN had boots on the ground for months and found nothing. Conservatives knew Bush started the Iraq war through a lie but still reelcted him. Why did you vote for Bush after knowing he started the war through a lie?

Obama went into Libya to get votes for 2012, to show how “tough” he is. This from a “community organizer” that avoided actual military service himself, of course, surrounding himself with drooling sycophants and career college weenies who’ve neither served in the military nor had a real job.

Few Americans died in Libya because Obama “leads from behind…” That’s like pushing a rope. Obama was and remains a sissy who uses bullying to get his way through union thuggery and his cadre of insane congressional liberals. We went into Iraq upon solid intelligence from France, Brittan, and Israel that Saddam was making WMDs. That is true, although we gave him enough time to scoot them across the border into Syria. Would you rather we had not? As for the “Arab Spring” of Obama’s imagination, LOL!

Obama went into Libia to keep Kadafi from massacaring his own people. Do you compare that to Bush invading Iraq through a lie to make a war that's sent 4400 Americans home in body bags after "mission accomplished" and "bring em on"? How many Americnas were killed in Libia… MY military experience was 4 years (in the Air Force working fire control. Are you insinuating non military is a pansy? If so, I conservative leader, Rush, a pansy? Boehner, McConnel and Trent Lott did not serve.

You said Obama refuses to admit he's a Marxist. Do you have evidence or is this another conservative lie (not racist) you're passing off to avoid my questions?

We had UN troops on the ground for months in Iraq and no sign of WMD's. We had satellite photos on Iraq the whole time and they found nothing, so how can you say France and Brittian had solid intelligence when our satelites that can pick out a person couldn't see one wmd's at any time? … See Bush's speech where he said Iraq had no input on 9/11. Bush tried getting the defense dept to say they had info on WMD's in Iraq but they wouldn't go along with it. It was strictly a Bush, Cheney, and Rove decision. I've been a registered republican all my life, but when I saw Bush lied and started the Iraq war through a lie, I changed parties… people suggesting Obama is a Muslim or a Marxist or that he is not doing a good job is just disguised racism…

Response to article “The Week of Lying Dangerously,” 7/6/2011 | Email Jacob Sullum | Columnist's Archive

Obama caved today, giving on social security and medicare. Rush and other millionares and billionares are laughing all the way to the bank at the gullible they have working the trenches for them. If you can look yourself in the mirror with no guilt, that shows how gullible you are. Go ahead and tell me how much millionares and billionares need those tax breaks, (not those making $250K you've been led to believe).

If conservatives get into power we'll become a third world power with the wealthy in total control. If you think third world countries let citizens have guns, you're more gullible than I thought.

Go ahead and tell me how happy you are that Obama caved and the conservatives didn't cave on tax breaks for millionares and billionares.

History lesson. Clinton had balanced budget and that's what Bush inherited. Bush gave tax breaks to the wealthy and started an unfunded war, and soon had record deficits going. Now Obama want to balance the budget but conservaties won't let him put taxes back on millionares and billionares that Bush cut to bring the budget back in balance. Now Boehner wants to throw seniors under the bus to cut SS and Medicare and have them take the hit while millioniares and billionares laugh all the way to the bank that the poor religious right conservatives are in the trenches doing their work for them.

Where was conservative complaints when Bush started a war through a lie that's sent 4400 Americans home in body bags, maimed 43,000 and .75 million with PTSD at cost of clost to 1 trillion?

You complain about Obama but didn't complain about Bush that started a war through a lie that sent 4400 Amicans home in body bags and set record deficits soon after taking office. Why didn't you complain about that?

Tell me one thing, do you personally hope medicare and Social Security goes away like conservatives want?

While waiting for the answer from above questions, do you think it was good of Bush to invade Iraq through a lie when we already had another war going in Afghanistan?

Nancy Reagan said we should use stem cells for research after Ronnie got alzheimers. Was she wrong?

Response to “The Line,” a cartoon showing an astronaut in his pressure suit waiting in the unemployment line because Obama has canceled our manned space program to “save money” and “The End of an Era…” an article on the end of the Space Shuttle/Manned Space Program:

So how much has planned parenthood cost compared to the Iraq war started with a lie?

Religious right wingers don't have the message yet that we don't have enough food to feed what we have now. When prices go up more, as they have done, more go to bed hungry. Doubt you saw on Natl morning program where they asked bunch of kids how many went to bed hungry, and most rasied their hands. One kid said it hurts right here, and pointed ot his stomach. Religious right don't care how many starve to death, they're just in the business of not stopping the flow of added mouths. Much more to come with drowths in Texas all the way to the east coast that is in extreme drowth now and growing nothing. Do you have more concern about adding to the population or feeding what we have?

The military will take it in the shorts as Boehner won't allow $1.5 trillion more taxes from millionares and billionares. All they're asking for is for them to pay the taxes when Clinton was in office and he paid down $1 trillion on the debt, but you'll never hear a conservative mention that.

Bush took a balanced budget and turned it into record deficits in years and started a war with Iraq through a lie that's sent 4400 Americans home in body bags. Why don't you ever address Bush's actions. Did you approve Bush's actions. Do you wnat more of that? Why don't you acknlodege Bush's falure?

I think you and other non wealthy conservatives go for the party that wants to give tax breaks for the wealth and cut Social Security and Medicare, are single issue voters and just vote conservative because they're anti abortion. Right?

You must be so proud being on the side that wants to cut Social Security and Medicare.

We're headed to third world status with just the very wealthy and very poor. If you think third world countries with just very rich and very poor allow citizens to have guns, you're dreaming.

Per chart from IBD showing the Obama Depression and joblessness the worst since 1930:

So where are the jobs created by Bush giving millionares and billionares big tax break "to provide jobs"?

Reply to article: “Obama warns Cantor: 'Don't call my bluff'” about Obama’s temper tantrum while meeting with Republicans re. the budget:

I'd be pissed also if I had to put up with Boehner. You tell me how much Boehner gives on tax break to millionares and billionares, and you're out there in the trenches working for the party that wants to take away our Social Security and Medicare. All the giving has to be with Obama. Even a single issue voter like you are, "anti abortion" should be able to see you're being taken for a sucker by the conservatives.

Now get back in the trenches and fight to take away our SS and Medicare. Conservatives boggle my mind. At times like this they show no sanity. Have you met any other seniors that want to give up their SS and Medicare, that aren't millionares? Who do you think has more truth, Rush Limbaugh or Public Radio?

Reply to article at WWW.GOAL.ORG (easily read there) regarding a Dem plan to make another attempt at back-door gun registration/confiscation (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2011/07/14/democrats_to_introduce_gun_control_legislation_tomorrow):

OK, you've done the Chicken Little part and we're all running around in circles saying, . "Democrats to Introduce Gun Control Legislation Today" "Democrats to Introduce Gun Control Legislation Today".

How long to we have to keep doing this before you tell the rest of the story, or is there no story? (It's not the story of Obama cutting gun sales on the Mexican border, is it)

I've asked many questions about conservatives and you've not been able to answer any. You've proven my theory that conservatives live in scare tactics, half truths, lies and are too ashamed to answer questions about what conservatives have done. If you didn't, you could answer my questions.

I think you know, but won't admit, that conservatives are controlled by millionare Rush that speaks for other millionares and billionares, and toss the religious right a bone saying they're against abortion, and relgious right run with the bone cutting their own Social Security and Medicare in the process. Do you really think millionares and billionares care about the unborn or their money? You're all good trench workers for the millionares and billionares. Tell me where I'm wrong, if you can, but since you haven't been able to answer my other questions, I doubt you can answer this one either.

I have another question you can answer. Bachman has a business of converting gays to straight by persuasion. Do you belive you can talk a person out of being gay?

How many other seniors have you talked to want to give up their SS and Medicare to millionares and billionares can keep their tax breaks?

The tax breaks to millionares and billionares have been to "provide jobs". It's been 9 years since Bush gave the breaks. Where's the jobs? All I've seen is conservative CEO's sending jobs overseas and using tax loopholes to keep from paying US taxes.

Religious right wingers don't have the message yet that we don't have enough food to feed what we have now. When prices go up more, as they have done, more go to bed hungry. Doubt you saw on Natl morning program where they asked bunch of kids how many went to bed hungry, and most rasied their hands. One kid said it hurts right here, and pointed ot his stomach. Religious right don't care how many starve to death, they're just in the business of not stopping the flow of added mouths through abortion. Much more to come with drowths in Texas all the way to the east coast that is in extreme drowth now and growing nothing. Do you have more concern about adding to the population or feeding what we have?

The military will take it in the shorts as Boehner won't allow $1.5 trillion more taxes from millionares and billionares. All Obama is asking for is for them to pay the taxes when Clinton was in office and he paid down $1 trillion on the debt, but you'll never hear a conservative mention that.

After Ronnie got alzheimers, Nancy Reagan said we should do research with stem cells rather than flush them down the drain. Was she wrong?

You said you wanted Obama to be a one term president. Was Bush a better president? Did you ever complaing about Bush's actions?

History lesson. Clinton paid down $1 trillion on natl debt and gave a balanced budget to Bush. Bush gave tax breaks to the wealthy and started an unfunded war, and soon had record deficits going. Now Obama want to balance the budget but conservaties won't let him put taxes back on millionares and billionares that Bush cut to bring the budget back in balance. Now Boehner wants to throw seniors under the bus to cut SS and Medicare and have them take the hit while millioniares and billionares laugh all the way to the bank that the poor religious right conservatives are in the trenches doing their work for them.

Where was conservative complaints when Bush started a war through a lie that's sent 4400 Americans home in body bags, maimed 43,000 and .75 million with PTSD at cost of clost to 1 trillion?

Response to article: “Can you refuse a smart meter? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0XnOoLR-u0&NR=1):

Ohmigod. I have to cut this short so I can go outside and wave hands in air shouting "smart meters are coming, smart meters are coming, guard your children".

I ordered a smart meter 3 years ago when I went on "time of day use" wattage usage. What is it you're afraid of? Are you growing pot? They can detect that on standard meters, you know. They never did say what they feared. FDR said it, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself", and we're fearing for fear now. Ah, the conservative fear raising.

Response to “Forget cars; cats cause global warming! Mother Jones says so!” (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2749275/posts?page=1):

Leave it to a right wing paper to come up with this, and some believe it and forward it. They call them conservatives, but they won't answer questions about what conservatives have done because they're too ashamed of what their party has done to defend them.

Response to: “'no budget' Dirty Harry) Reid: No Social Security checks without debt deal:”

Response to: “Blaming it all on the Tea Party” (http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/07/15/blaming-it-all-on-the-tea-party/):

The tea party and conservatives will do anything it can to make Obama look bad, even it it means taking the country down. They and most conservatives are "party first and country last".

Response to: “Soldiers ordered not to shoot Taliban as they plant mines... 'because it WAKES UP locals' :”

You want to hear a much better one that's really true? Bush started the war in Iraq that's sent 4300 Americans home in body bags, maimed 44,000 that we'll likely have to support the rest of their lives, and give 750,000 PTSD, many of whom are so shell shocked they can't work and many have such nightmares they can't sleep. And the Iraq war greatly lengthened the Aghanistan war because Bush had to take troops from Afghanistan war to fight the Iraq war, letting the Taliban regain control of Afghanisan after almost having Afghsnistan Taliban wiped up. Bush also spent $1 trillion doing this and no conservative complaint there, yet Obama wants to spend $1 trillion on Obama care that helps everone but the wealthy and conservatives complain. Don't the Religious Right care about the poor?

Why didn't you ever complain about Bush starting this war through a lie when we were already up to our eyeballs in a war with Afghhanistan? Did you think starting the Iraq war through a lie was a good idea?

When will you start answering questions? You're making accusazations but never answering questions. Aren't you a proud conservative that's proud of conservative's actions?

Are you also going to just lay in the trenches of the millionares and billionares and throw rocks at anyone not pro right wing?

I've been a registered Republican all my life and voted for Bush the first time, then found he'd lied to me and voted aginst him the second time. Why didn't you 2 vote against him the second time? =========================================================

Reply to “Get Ready for Obama’s 70% Marginal Tax Rate” (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304911104576443893352153776.html):

Obama wouldn't have to do this if the poor Religious Right conservatives would get out of the trenches of working for millionares and billionares. Wall Street Journal now owned by Murdock that owns Fox News, that conservatives fall all over for, and even believe it. They even believe their leader Rush, speaks truth. Can you believe that?

Can you see what lop sided intelliegence we're dealing with? They and Boehner do whatever their leader, Rush, asks. I used to see people convinced by carnival barkers, and Rush is the best carnival barker of these days, and he sure has those that "look to him for truth" and only read right wing blogs following him. They even thing starting the Iraq war through a lie was a good idea… And yet right wingers can't see that starting the Iraq war through a lie has done horrible damge to this country. You sure are the target of those that just scan right wing stuff all day to send you. I think they're filled with hate that Rush preaches all day.

I voted for Bush the first time, then found he'd lied about starting the Iraq war because they had "WMD's", yet the UN had boots on the ground for months and found nothing.

Scott Ritter, child predator and arms inspector, flipped from being a critic of Saddam to attacking Bush. Some suspect that Saddam held some compromising details on Mr. Ritter.

The war in Iraq began under the first President Bush. Saddam restarted the war in the 1990s when he violated the terms of the peace agreement. If Saddam had stepped down, the war could have been avoided. When Saddam was toppled, the Iraq war ended. There were new conflicts following the ousting of Saddam. Can't really call it a civil war since the troops and funding and weaponry come from other countries including Iran.

The Cold War waged for 45 years after WWII. It would be wrong to say that it took all that time to fight WWII.

If the basics of the Iraq war cannot be discussed (outside of Rat mems like Bush Lied, People Died) then further debate is pointless.

Might as well dredge up the "Bush stole two elections" myth as well.

When they resort to calling you a “racist” you know that you’ve won. They have nothing left.

I agree 100%. The point I keep making here is that when we resort to name calling, which we often do, we are seen in the same way, that we have nothing left, no real arguments.

If you must reply, never answer there false premises...here's some ammo.

National debt increased every year under Clinton.

US Treasury

Clinton left Bush a recession, a 57% stock market crash, a trillion dollar sub-prime bubble, and 8 years of unanswered Al Qaeda attacks, culminating in a $2 trillion 9/11 attack. Always remember the senate controls spending. Clinton fought for spending, increases, republicans controlled the senate and stopped them. Republicans wrote every budget that produced the lowering deficits.

Iraq war didn't start in 2002; it started in 1992 when Iraq attacked Kuwait. Saddam violated the peace treaty for 8 years, UN voted 15-0 to resume hostilities based on the violated terms of the peace treaty.

You said Obama refuses to admit he's a Marxist. Do you have evidence or is this another conservative lie (not racist) you're passing off to avoid my questions?

How about from the horse's mouth?

To avoid being mistaken for a sellout,I chose my friends carefully.The more politically active black students.The foreign students.The Chicanos.The Marxist Professors and the structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets.We smoked cigarettes and wore leather jackets.At night,in the dorms,we discussed neocolonialism,Franz Fanon,Eurocentrism,and patriarchy.When we ground out our cigarettes in the hallway carpet or set our stereos so loud that the walls began to shake,we were resisting bourgeois society's stifling constraints.We weren't indifferent or careless or insecure.We were alienated.

and

I think when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody

The guy sounds like a broken record. I do agree that conservatives in general weren’t loud enough about the things that Bush did wrong. Like most liberals though, this guy can’t see past the mistakes of the last administration and now focus on the current one, who’s put us in an even worse situation than the one he started with.

History lesson. Clinton had balanced budget and that's what Bush inherited. Bush gave tax breaks to the wealthy and started an unfunded war, and soon had record deficits going.

Revisionist history lesson.

A cataclysmic event tanked the stock market on 9-11-2001 which was barely 8 months into his first term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_effects_arising_from_the_September_11_attacks

I heard many republicans/conservatives complain about the Federal spending under Bush. That is why 2006 went the way it did. Once the liberals controlled Congress (even with Bush in office) the spending went up much more. And we are supposed to be happy when it increases 10 fold?
Hillary said she did her own research, independent of what info Bush had, and she was convinced Iraq had WMD’s. I have not heard liberals quote her concerning her ‘lies’.

Obama went into Libia to keep Kadafi from massacaring his own people.

Saddam and his sons did the same to the Iraqi people. That right there should justify the war in Iraq IF he's going to be consistent.

But I call him a liar. Don't read anything in his talking points to support his claim of being a lifelong republican and bush voterl.

Religious right don't care how many starve to death, they're just in the business of not stopping the flow of added mouths. Much more to come with drowths in Texas all the way to the east coast that is in extreme drowth now and growing nothing. Do you have more concern about adding to the population or feeding what we have?

How many people DO starve to death every year in the United States? Apart from those suffering from eating disorders...

And we a using crops for oil that could be used instead to feed people.

This is similar to what I went through for years with a leftist, union shop steward. We battled for several years and I learned that when he was in a corner the “Bush deficit, Bush wars,” etc, came out. I recently sent out an email that showed the money spent by unions for democrats in a counter to his, “big business runs the government by its money.” The numbers showed that labor spent hundreds of millions more on politics than business. He called me a liar, told him to back it up and show me wrong..he couldn’t so it was, “you lie.” That did it for me. No more.

History lesson. Clinton paid down $1 trillion on natl debt and gave a balanced budget to Bush.

Remind that idiot that X-42 had to deal with a Republican congress during the years the debt got paid, and he knew they would override his veto.

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