Posted on 07/20/2011 7:32:01 AM PDT by Liberty1970
In a bit of a bombshell moment, an apparent casual answer to a question about a photo on evworld, we learn from Andrea Rossi that advances in safety and control may lead to the 1MW plant being run in self-sustain mode. While any such advance would be an exciting development, it does not speak to the relevant realities of safety certificates and testing by the appropriate authorities. Unless this has been going on for some time and it is only the release of information that is new.
Question and answer follow:
Dear Andrea Rossi, please have a look to the picture at the following link: http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=2004 It is you, Stemmenos and Focardi conducing tests on the e-cat. The set-up looks quite different from what we have seen on previous tests pictures, i’m refering specifically to those 4 red devices on the left. There have been speculations on the internet that those devices may be e-cats in production form but i think they are just peristaltic pumps, am i right? Can i ask you what kind of test where you performing when the picture was taken? Thanks you in advance for you patience. Warm Regards, AC
Andrea Rossi July 19th, 2011 at 7:57 AM Dear Alessandro Casali: This photo has been taken during the stress test of a sery of E-Cats a couple of weeks ago, together with the Greek Scientist Christos Stremmenos. They are some of the E-Cats that will compound the 1 MW plant. In that phase the E-Cats were working making steam WITHOUT energy input. This is why you see us so focused (me and Stremmenos). The 1 MW plant, probably will work mostly without energy input, I suppose, because we are resolving the safety issues connected. The 4 red spots are pumps, the E-Cat clusters are hidden. The three characters in the photo are Prof. Sergio Focardi , Prof. Christos Stremmenos and me. Warm Regards, A.R.
***Also in the news at the same site:
Defkalion Green Technologies Interview July 19, 2011 | Author: admin
XanthiPress (a newspaper local to the region in Greece where Defkalion Green Technologies will run their first three factories) interviewed the President of the company, Alekos Xanthoulis
The reporter said that it was initially difficult to get Defkalion to talk but that since the company themselves gave an impressive view of how important the technology is and for the country, it was also important for them to answer questions from the people. This might give the impression that they were trying to hide something, hinting at a tone where locals begin to fear there may be danger in their backyard.
The report clearly states that Mr Xanthoulis said there will be a public demonstration of the first Hyperion product – producing 35KW per hour (sic) – in the end of September. Is this a press error or another sign that Defkalion is operating with a great deal of autonomy and running fast?
Mr Xanthoulis adds that they have 12 scientists working now and expect the factory to be operating in October (probably meaning that gearing up for manufacturing starts then rather than shipping products).
Eventually, 3 factories will work together producing Hyperions and a separate facility will perform R&D – the total employing between 300 to 350 staff.
A curious note is sounded that the patent will be sealed for 9 years. With links to Greek government officials you can imagine how this might be but I would be surprised if that would fly elsewhere. Published anywhere, this fact would become redundant. The whole point of a patent is to protect the inventor while publishing details to encourage further innovation
Already the rumours have started about the possible dangers. Mr Xanthoulis speaks about false reports that the factory is making nuclear bombs or about it being inherently dangerous. Those commenting on the newspaper’s site talk about massive dumping of nuclear waste while others say that science has not solved the fusion problem yet.
I expect this aspect will gain legs over the coming months and, if denial turns to acceptance, massive political manoeuvring of these underlying fears in an attempt to poison the well.
ETA – Andrea Rossi has just answered a question on his blog, confirming that the September demo of a 35KW Hyperion is likely an error. With this in mind, we must be wary of any particular ‘fact’ in the interview without also assuming that it is all wrong.
Here is AR’s response:
Dear Carlo: Probably there has been a misunderstanding, no 35 kW reactors will be demonstrated anywhere in public. In October will be put in operation our 1 MW plant. I continue to work on it 16 hours per day, and so far we are prefectly in time. Warm Regards, A.R.
The problem with e-cat in cars is not so much technical as it is regulatory and political. An e-cat engine will need to be certified as being safe for cars. It’s less of a bureaucratic hurdle for locomotives or ships (although insurance companies will make life difficult there too).
I think another poster has the right idea about steam. We'll probably see some really funky creations from 'early adopters' who modify their vehicles to run on steam with an E-cat.
Why not just turn it into forward motion, and siphon off enough energy to run lights with an alternator?
An electric drivetrain does what for you, over mechanical?
In a bit of a bombshell moment, an apparent casual answer to a question about a photo on evworld, we learn from Andrea Rossi that advances in safety and control may lead to the 1MW plant being run in self-sustain mode."advances in safety and control" to maybe allow self-sustaining operation??? Sorry - This one point is, to me, the biggest red flag whole shootin' match.
If the eCAT's output is unstable to the point that it can't be tapped and allow a small portion of it to be fed back to its input, what does that say about it providing usable output energy?
The device produces heat (and/or steam). We've been converting those forms of energy into electricity for many, many decades. Control systems for electricity are quite mature technology and very stable, regardless of the source providing the electricity.
I’m all for the E-Cat but I can’t see how these heating units will make my car go, not anytime soon. Now, for anything using boilers or requiring hot water/steam, like a ship, a yacht, industrial plants and of course, power plants, the E-cat looks promising.
For a car, I am imagining using a refined, specialized miniature E-cat electrical generating system powering the electrolysis of water for hydrogen. Or for charging batteries, maybe.
Let me clarify on the E-cat steam powered car: Sure, a steam engine could probably be cobbled together relatively easily. But I don’t think using steam as the motive power gets it done today. 1920, ok. Today, no. Steam isn’t going to be a ‘start and go’ engine, it will need to build up pressure, especially on a cold morning. Nor will it get you the instant, massive energy needed to go 0-70 in a few seconds getting on the freeway. Or anytime when maximum acceleration is either necessary or desired. jmho
Thanks for the ping...
The Cold Fusion Ping List
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An ecat-powered steam engine would be more efficient than direct conversion to electricity.
Make it a Volt-style hybrid, with a battery to get you going in the morning and a steam engine to recharge the battery.
Hinting they may have the feedback loop or loops working up to snuff.
My guess would be independent mechanical and electronic in nature.
Why couldn’t you use the steam to generate electricity (turn a dynamo) which charges a battery, which runs an electric motor?
Replace the gas engine in the Prius with a few e-cats. At 14kw/ecat, (that’s about 20hp), 5 would give you 100hp - I think that’s more than the Prius engine provides. I don’t know how quickly you can charge the batteries though.
Or use the electricity generated to run the motor directly and use any excess to charge the battery.
If you have a 15 KW generator, you'll need 30 HP to turn it effectively.
I suggest you take time to look up the vitas of the folks involved aside from Rossi (Focardi, Levi, and Stremenos in particular). These are NOT "lightweights".
Plenty of designs for steam cars from the Stanley Steamer up to today. No electricity needed, other than startup and to run the accessories. A hybrid would be nice to have but certainly not necessary as a first attempt.
The reaction has a positive temperature coefficient (if it gets hotter and the heat isn't removed, the reaction produces yet more heat). Thus it can "run away" thermally. And you are generating all that heat in a VERY small (50 cc) volume. Getting very precise thermal control with just the circulation of the working fluid in that small volume is "non-trivial". Use of a "tickler" source of electrically controlled heat that can be easily sensed (thermocouples or RTDs) and shut down quickly is a LOT easier.
LOL. There are thousands of "steam engineers" around the world, and the centuries of technology certainly hasn't gone away. And the cure for all the above mentioned are easily done. At night, just keep the e-cat "ticking over" at a low level, just like truckers do when they stop for lunch. Fast acceleration energy stored in a "pressure accumulator" (see pneumatic and hydraulic drive car prototypes). Electric drive/energy storage NOT needed except for cold startup and running the radio and other accessories.
I assume when you’re talking about a “steam engine” you are referring to a closed-loop recovery system which uses some “propellant” medium other than water...much like an automotive AC system, only in reverse.
> Replace the gas engine in the Prius with a few e-cats
At least initially, E-cat units are not going to be so cheap. I read that Rossi is planning on pricing a 35Kw(thermal) E-cat at 5000 Euros = $7k
> At 14kw/ecat, (that’s about 20hp), 5 would give you 100hp
Actually, from each 35Kw(thermal) E-cat, you could expect to get about 15hp from a fairly lightweight steam engine. Six E-cats (at a cost of $42k!) would get you up to 90hp.
However, $42,000 will buy about 12,000 gallons of gas, which can drive you about 420,000 miles in a fairly fuel-efficient car.
Therefore, if you want 90hp continuous from your e-cats, you’d need to drive it over 420,000 miles before they have become cost-competitive with a similar gas-powered car (at current gas prices).
If you’re willing to settle for 45hp continuous and sell the cars in a country with very expensive gasoline (U.K. or Israel, for example), you could expect payback in 70k miles or less, which would be reasonable.
> I assume when you’re talking about a “steam engine” you are referring to a closed-loop recovery system which uses some “propellant” medium other than water...much like an automotive AC system, only in reverse.
No, Rock.
Closed-loop recovery engines require very large radiators, and are more prone to failures than open-cycle. For a compact car, they probably would be too big.
Open-cycle steam engines would be very simple, and could be adapted much more quickly than a closed-loop design.
Long-term, closed cycle would be the way to go. But if someone wants to sell a E-cat powered car next year - basically it would have to be open-cycle steam.
Why? A two or even three phase turbine wrings most of the heat and energy out. Open loop would be a problem such as steam engines had where they had to stop very often for “fuel”.
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