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STALINGRADíS ARMIES KEEP INITIATIVE (10/5/42)
Microfilm-New York Times archives, Monterey Public Library | 10/5/42 | Ralph Parker, Herbert L. Matthews, F. Tillman Durdin, James MacDonald

Posted on 10/05/2012 5:38:49 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson

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TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: milhist; realtime; worldwarii
Free Republic University, Department of History presents World War II Plus 70 Years: Seminar and Discussion Forum
First session: September 1, 2009. Last date to add: September 2, 2015.
Reading assignment: New York Times articles delivered daily to students on the 70th anniversary of original publication date. (Previously posted articles can be found by searching on keyword “realtime” Or view Homer’s posting history .)
To add this class to or drop it from your schedule notify Admissions and Records (Attn: Homer_J_Simpson) by freepmail. Those on the Realtime +/- 70 Years ping list are automatically enrolled. Course description, prerequisites and tuition information is available at the bottom of Homer’s profile. Also visit our general discussion thread.
1 posted on 10/05/2012 5:38:55 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
Selections from West Point Atlas for the Second World War
Papua, New Guinea, 1942
Allied Advance Across Owen Stanley Mountains, 26 Sept.-15 Nov. 1942
The Solomons: Guadalcanal and Florida, 1942
Southwest Russia, 1942: German Advance to Stalingrad, Operations, 24 July-18 November 1942
The Far East and the Pacific, 1941: Status of Forces and Allied Theater Boundaries, 2 July 1942
India-Burma, 1942: Allied Lines of Communication, 1942-1943
2 posted on 10/05/2012 5:39:45 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
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William L. Shirer, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich

3 posted on 10/05/2012 5:41:40 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: r9etb; PzLdr; dfwgator; Paisan; From many - one.; rockinqsranch; 2banana; henkster; meandog; ...
Nazis Still at Bay (Parker) – 2-3
French Tri-Color Legion Off to Aid the Nazis (photo) – 3
U.S. Training Given to Chinese in India (Matthews) – 4
War News Summarized – 4
Hit-Run Foe Keeps Guadalcanal Busy (Durdin) – 5
Sussex Villagers Run War Factory (MacDonald) – 5-6
Texts of Day’s War Communiques – 7
4 posted on 10/05/2012 5:43:15 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://www.onwar.com/chrono/1942/oct42/f05oct42.htm

Carrier planes strike Japanese shipping
Monday, October 5, 1942 www.onwar.com

US aircraft attack Japanese ships off Bougainville [photo at link]

In the Solomon Islands... American planes from the carrier USS Hornet attack Japanese vessels off Bougainville with little success.


5 posted on 10/05/2012 5:45:08 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andrew.etherington/frame.htm

October 4th, 1942

UNITED KINGDOM: Channel Islands: Last night British commandos launched a raid on Sark.

GERMANY: Reichsmarschall Göring says: “This war is not the Second World War: this is the War of the Races. Whether we, the Germanic and Aryan men, or the Jew rule the world - that is the final issue.”

Adolf Hitler states that occupied countries must make up the food shortage caused by the Allied blockade. (Jack McKillop)

U.S.S.R.: The 4th major offensive of Paulus German forces at Stalingrad begins. Their street fighting capabilities have been strengthened with the addition of police and combat-engineer units. This will be the longest of the German offensives and will result in the fiercest fighting. The Soviets have prepared the ground better, attempting to funnel the German drives into specially prepared “killing fields”. The end result of this offensive will be to seriously deplete the Germans in both morale and reserves.

NEW GUINEA: Australian forces continue to advance along the Kokoda Trail capturing Effogi.

Fifth Air Force P-40s strafe forces and occupied areas at Myola Lake, Kokoda, Wairopi, Yodda, and Buna; a US reconnaissance party from the 126th Infantry Regiment, 32d Infantry Division reaches Jauri, completing a reconnaissance of the Kapa Kapa-Jauri trail, which is found to be difficult but practicable for use as a route in a contemplated offensive against the Buna-Gona area. (Jack McKillop)

TERRITORY OF ALASKA: ALEUTIAN ISLANDS: 3 Eleventh Air Force B-24 Liberators abort weather, bombing and photo missions over Kiska Island due to weather and instead attack a cargo vessel; the ship’s rudder is probably damaged. (Jack McKillop)
U.S.A.: Baseball!

Off the coast of the U.S., the American tanker SS Camden is torpedoed by Japanese submarine HIJMS I-25 off the coast of Oregon, at position 43°42’N, 124°52’W, and is abandoned. (Jack McKillop)

Destroyer USS Evans launched.
Minesweeper USS Usage launched.

ATLANTIC OCEAN: U-175 sank SS Caribstar. (Dave Shirlaw)


6 posted on 10/05/2012 5:46:18 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Horrible...absolutely horrible.


7 posted on 10/05/2012 6:22:52 AM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus sum)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Omg

anyone who can read that and not be profoundly moved has no soul.


8 posted on 10/05/2012 6:58:09 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (We can’t just leave it (food choice) up to the parents. -- moochele obozo 2/12/2012 (cnsnews))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

9 posted on 10/05/2012 10:44:04 AM PDT by CougarGA7 ("History is politics projected into the past" - Michael Pokrovski)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
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10 posted on 10/05/2012 10:49:09 AM PDT by CougarGA7 ("History is politics projected into the past" - Michael Pokrovski)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

As much as I have read about the Holocaust, I still can’t read an account like that without being profoundly saddened. Utter horror and depravity.


11 posted on 10/05/2012 1:13:57 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: colorado tanker
I was just a kid, 13-14, when the Stalingrad fight was going on, but I read every news article, and listened to every radio report from Stalingrad.What a horrible battle, and so many killed on both sides. Hitler, lost his entire 6th Army. He refused to let the Generals surrender, and the result was a complete capture. HORRIBLE.
12 posted on 10/05/2012 1:20:52 PM PDT by BooBoo1000 ("The plans I have for you are plans to prosper you.,not to harm you, Plans to give you hope)
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To: colorado tanker
I was just a kid, 13-14, when the Stalingrad fight was going on, but I read every news article, and listened to every radio report from Stalingrad.What a horrible battle, and so many killed on both sides. Hitler, lost his entire 6th Army. He refused to let the Generals surrender, and the result was a complete capture. HORRIBLE.
13 posted on 10/05/2012 1:21:06 PM PDT by BooBoo1000 ("The plans I have for you are plans to prosper you.,not to harm you, Plans to give you hope)
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To: colorado tanker
I was just a kid, 13-14, when the Stalingrad fight was going on, but I read every news article, and listened to every radio report from Stalingrad.What a horrible battle, and so many killed on both sides. Hitler, lost his entire 6th Army. He refused to let the Generals surrender, and the result was a complete capture. HORRIBLE.
14 posted on 10/05/2012 1:21:21 PM PDT by BooBoo1000 ("The plans I have for you are plans to prosper you.,not to harm you, Plans to give you hope)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Herr Graebe deftly illustrates the death of all German souls present, extinguished by the image of God present in the souls of these calm and civilized Jews.

Probably the dead souls took the physical lives of their owners after a suitable interval, as usually happens in these situations.

The simple comment “twenty-three years old” clarified this for me.


15 posted on 10/05/2012 1:54:19 PM PDT by InMemoriam (I have to vote against Eric Holder, even if it means voting for Romney.)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Is this time frame in 1942 the high-tide of the German advance into Russia?


16 posted on 10/05/2012 2:45:37 PM PDT by Rebelbase (The most transparent administration ever is clear as mud.)
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To: Rebelbase; henkster
Is this time frame in 1942 the high-tide of the German advance into Russia?

Is it now or was it last December when they were in suburban Moscow?

17 posted on 10/05/2012 3:12:13 PM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

I’m not sure if the line now at Stalingrad marks the high water point as far as square miles occupied by the Nazis in Russia, but the “high-tide” mark, in my opinion, was December of 1941 right before the Soviet counter attack. Even with this “south only” offensive in the following year, the momentum has already shifted.


18 posted on 10/05/2012 7:45:13 PM PDT by CougarGA7 ("History is politics projected into the past" - Michael Pokrovski)
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To: Rebelbase

Meant to ping you to post #18 as well.


19 posted on 10/05/2012 7:46:01 PM PDT by CougarGA7 ("History is politics projected into the past" - Michael Pokrovski)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

That was in 1941. But they made southern gains in 1942.


20 posted on 10/05/2012 8:02:32 PM PDT by Rebelbase (The most transparent administration ever is clear as mud.)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

I like reading scary books.
A few years ago i read this 800+ page book on the battle of Stalingrad.
It was the scariest book i have ever read.


21 posted on 10/05/2012 8:07:58 PM PDT by mowowie
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To: mowowie

Not just scary, HORRIFYING.
My god.....


22 posted on 10/05/2012 8:13:53 PM PDT by mowowie
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To: Homer_J_Simpson; Rebelbase; CougarGA7

Sorry about the delay but Mrs. henkster & I were on the road returning from vacation yesterday.

The “high water mark” for Germany in the sense of strategic positioning and opportunity to win the war was in 1941. In 1942, Germany had occupied her greatest extent of territory and resources, but her strategic prospects were already on the wane.

Several reasons here:

1. The Wehrmacht was a “wasting asset” in terms of manpower. The “wastage” of Winter 1941-2 was never going to be made good, as seen by the German’s reliance upon inferior satellite troops in 1942.

2. The losses in Winter 1941-2 were a result of a flawed strategic policy toward the Soviet Union to begin with. The Germans never could “defeat” the USSR in one campaign season. The distances were too great, the logistic system could not even support the army as far as it got. The Germans needed to go into the Soviet Union with the idea that it had to be a two-year campaign, and build up the armaments production accordingly. They never did convert to a “total war” economy until 1944, and by then it was far too late.

3. The fact that Germany could not adequately equip her own army in 1942 is even more telling in that she could not accomplish an Axis equivalent of “lend-lease” for her allies. Had the Germans been able to adequately equip their allies with sufficient weapons, particularly high-velocity anti-tank guns, those troops might possibly have been of use in defending their sectors along the Don instead of being vaporized by the Soviet onslaught.

4. Finally, the most important item is the entry of the United States into World War II as an enemy of Germany. Once that happened, coupled with their inability to take out the USSR, Germany’s fate was probably sealed. There was no way Germany and her satellites could match the array of resources arranged against them.

So, it’s my opinion that you should not look at December 1941 as the high water mark of German strategic position. It was really more like mid-October, when by all means the Germans should have stopped, dug in, and waited out the winter to finish the job in the spring with an undamaged army. If they had been able to knock out the USSR in 1942, they might have had a chance against the Western Allies in 1943-1944.


23 posted on 10/06/2012 9:16:27 AM PDT by henkster (With Carter, the embassy staff was still alive.)
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To: henkster

At some point in the near future, isn’t the army in the Caucuses recalled to assist at Stalingrad?


24 posted on 10/06/2012 9:40:49 AM PDT by Rebelbase (The most transparent administration ever is clear as mud.)
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To: Rebelbase

Yes but only part of the units in the Caucasus, and only after the Soviets have sprung the trap and encircled 6th Army.

The Germans had slated 6th & 17th Panzer divisions as operational reserves to put on the Don flank behind the Romanians and Italians. But due to logistical shortcomings, they didn’t get deployed before the Soviet counter-offensive. Sixth Panzer had been refitting in France, and was equipped with 160 long-barreled Panzer IVs. Had it been in place behind the Romanians, the Soviets would not have had as easy a time of it.

As it was, 6th Panzer became the spearhead of “Winter Storm,” von Manstein’s effort to relieve Stalingrad. It would have served the Germans better if they had gotten it there earlier.


25 posted on 10/06/2012 2:31:57 PM PDT by henkster (With Carter, the embassy staff was still alive.)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Wrong day posted above.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andrew.etherington/frame.htm

October 5th, 1942

GERMANY: U-359 is commissioned.

U-430 is laid down.

U-668 and U-669 are launched. (Dave Shirlaw)

U.S.S.R.: Soviet submarine “Sch-320” of the Baltic Fleet, Ladoga and Onega Flotillas is sunk by the Finnish submarine Vetehinen (Kapteeniluutnantti Antti Leino) by ramming, in the Gulf of Finland. The Vetehinen is also damaged, but manages to get back to base for repairs. (Sergey Anisimov and Mikke Härmeinen)(69)

Joseph Stalin, premier and dictator of the Soviet Union, fires off a telegram to the German/Soviet front at Stalingrad, exhorting his forces to victory. “That part of Stalingrad which has been captured must be liberated.” (Jack McKillop)

CHINA: Chiang Kai-shek formally reincorporates Sinkiang province into China and demands that the USSR withdraw its military presence.

NEW GUINEA: Fifth Air Force B-25 Mitchells attack a convoy off Buna; A-20 Havocs hit AA positions at Sanananda Point and bomb the village of Sanananda; and B-17 Flying Fortresses bomb airfields at Buna and also hit airfields at Rabaul on New Britain Island. (Jack McKillop)

SOLOMON ISLANDS: An American offensive raid against the Japanese bases and shipping at Shortland Island in the northern Solomons is launched by Admiral Ghormley. The USS Hornet is moved west of the base and the aircraft are launched early. The clouds and weather of the approaching cold front impede the attack. The formation unravels n the low cloud and rain. Hornet crews claim 8 planes and two more during their withdrawal. The simultaneous raids by B-17s against Buka and the Cactus AF against Rekata Bay are also derailed by the weather.

SBD Dauntlesses of Scouting Squadrons Three and Seventy One (VS-3 and VS-71) and Marine Scout Bombing Squadron One Hundred Forty One (VMSB-141) from Henderson Field, Guadalcanal, attack a Japanese convoy, damaging destroyers HIJMS Minegumo and HIJMS Murasame 150 miles (241.4 km) from Guadalcanal. (Jack McKillop)

TERRITORY OF ALASKA: Aleutian Islands, 6 Eleventh Air Force B-24 Liberators, 3 P-38 Lightnings and 3 P-39Airacobras abort a bombing, weather, and photo mission over Kiska Island due to weather. (Jack McKillop)
U.S.A.: Baseball!

ATLANTIC OCEAN southwest of Iceland, a PBY-5A Catalina of Patrol Squadron Seventy Three (VP-73) based at NAF Reykjavik, Iceland, depth charges and sinks German submarine U-582 in position 58.52N, 21.42W. All hands on the sub are lost. (Jack McKillop)

U-619 (Type VIIC) is sunk southwest of Iceland, in position 58.41N, 22.58W, by 4 depth charges from a British Hudson aircraft (269/N Sqdn.). 44 dead (all crew lost). (Alex Gordon)

U-68 reaches the area off Capetown, South Africa, and begins looking for shipping traffic.

While closing on convoy HX-209, U-257 is attacked by an aircraft which drops six bombs. The U-boat suffers such severe damage that it has to return to base.

U-575 loses a man overboard. [Oberbootsmaat Herbert Bühler]

U-175 sinks the SS WILLIAM A MCKENNEY. (Dave Shirlaw)


26 posted on 10/07/2012 6:51:27 PM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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