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Who Were the Beatniks? (Vanity)
Various | Various | Various

Posted on 11/25/2012 2:47:21 PM PST by DustyMoment

A lot of FReepers tend to blame Baby Bomers for the ills of the world. The fact is that the Baby Boomers didn't originate a lot of the counter-culture activities of the 60s, they learned them from the Beatniks. So, to help clarify where the Hippies came from, you have to know and understand who the Beatniks were. Here is their story:

Beatnik History
Imagine it is the year 1959.

You are seated at a table with a bottle of cheap red wine, a cigarette glows red in the ashtray. The place; a smoky, dimly lit, seedy, little bar in Greenwich Village, New York. A slight, bearded fellow with black sockets for eyes, listens to the rhythmic pounding of bongo drums.

A pallid, sullen, pouting girl in black stockings buries her head in a copy of HOWL.

A kid with a goatee, wearing tatty clothes, sandals and a beret smokes a bit of 'tea', and takes a long, heavy, luxurious draw of smoke.

A wide-eyed, red-eyed, streetwise, young, but old, Times square hustler surveys the scene.

A table of unwashed, uncouth, angry young men heatedly discuss the recent publication of THE NAKED LUNCH.

A girl with black-rimmed eyes, long, messy hair, wearing a large, shapeless sweater broods silently in a corner while her boy-friend, a whiskery, wiry, winsome young man nervously fingers a syrette of morphine.

A wild haired, bespectacled poet stammers out a poem to an entranced group of fresh faced poet-girls and poet-boys.

In 1959, in this smoke-clouded Greenwich Village bar, you would immediately know, if you were at all hip to the scene, that the ragged assortment of malcontents, delinquents, 'tea-heads', Bohemians, hipsters and hustlers before you, could all rather conveniently fit into the mould, effectively created and labeled by the media of the times as 'BEATS', or more sneeringly as 'BEATNIKS'.

Herbert Caen, a San Francisco journalist, first coined the term when he cried out, "I certainly don't intend to support my son if he wants to be a beatnik," meaning of course, one of those hairy, sandal wearing, coffee-house lounging, poetry spouting Bohemians. The media immediately seized upon the term as a rather "handy caricature for everyone associated with beatness." The real meaning of "beatness" lost all significance and was basically used to describe a physical type. Middle-class, conventional, smugly content Americans reading their Time and Life magazines could sit back, happy in their prosperity, and safely chuckle over the antics of the beatniks. Turtle necks, bongos and berets--what fun. Americans had become all to familiar with the beatnik but less so with the philosophy behind all of the trappings.

"I am the originator of the term, and around it the term and the generation have taken shape" wrote Jack Kerouac in a 1959 article called The Origins of the Beat Generation. The word "beat" had been used by jazz musicians, hustlers and hipsters in the 1940s as a street slang term meaning dead beat, down and out, exhausted, poor. In 1944 a Times Square street hustler and hipster named Herbert Huncke, a friend of William Burroughs walked up to Jack Kerouac and said "Man, I'm beat." "I knew right away what he meant somehow," wrote Kerouac, "I was a bum, a brakeman, a seaman, a panhandler…anything and everything, and went on writing because my hero was Goethe." In 1955 he published an excerpt from a novel he was writing called Beat Generation and the term started appearing in various publications.

In 1956 Allen Ginsbergs' Howl and Other Poems virtually exploded on to the American literary scene and seemed to scream out "beat." But in 1957 when Kerouacs' Beat Generation transmogrified into On The Road, the term "beat" suddenly became part of the American vernacular. According to Kerouac "youth had emerged cool and beat, had picked up the gestures and the style; soon it was everywhere."

The original group of Beat writers formed in New York in the mid 1940s. William S. Burroughs scion of a cultivated and established St. Louis family (his grandfather had invented the adding machine) first introduced the young Columbia university student Allen Ginsberg and Jack Kerouac to his friend, the Times Square hustler Herbert Huncke who in turn introduced them to the druggy, jazzy New York underworld. He taught them what "beat" was all about and was instrumental in securing drugs for all of them. Burroughs became involved with a "community of outlaws" and became addicted to the drug morphine. At this point Harvard graduate Burroughs did not consider himself to be a writer. Kerouac saw him as "an eccentric scholar, traveler, seeker of the facts of life." Burroughs was on a personal quest to find an alternative style of life-alternative experiences and alternative values. He was determined to pursue experience to the fullest and sought to escape the constraints of his conservative, up-right, conventional, upper middle-class upbringing. He sought to "expand consciousness" through his travels, through sexual experimentation, through the use of narcotics, and through art. "Artists, to my mind," he wrote, "are the real architects of change."

Allen Ginsberg was a young student at Columbia University when he met the much older Burroughs(thirteen years his senior). "He educated me more than Columbia, really," claimed Ginsberg. At Columbia, Ginsberg had become dissatisfied with his economics studies, and felt himself to be an outsider as a Jewish, homosexual. He was expelled for writing on a dirty window "Butler has no balls" (referring to the president of the university). Ginsberg was restless and intent on breaking the rules and in Burroughs he had found the perfect tutor. Burroughs unconventional life-style appealed to Ginsberg who was fascinated by his introduction into the "subterranean" Times Square underworld. In 1948 Ginsberg had a series of "mystic visions" of the poet William Blake and henceforth dedicated himself to becoming a poet. When he published Howl and Other Poems in 1956, considered by poet and critic Kenneth Rexroth to be "the most remarkable single poem published by a young man since the second war," he dedicated it to Jack Kerouac, "new Buddha of American prose," William Seward Burroughs, and Neal Cassady.

When Jack Kerouac met William S. Burroughs and Allen Ginsberg some time in 1944, he had already dropped out of Columbia to enlist in the navy, been discharged, and subsequently served as a merchant seaman. His "restless exuberance" had led him back to New York where he was encouraged to write by Ginsberg and Burroughs. Kerouac was struck by the open rebelliousness, the licentiousness, the madness of his new friends. The narrator of On the Road, Sal Paradise (Kerouac himself) proclaims at one point that "the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved... the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing." It was with this mad group of beats that Kerouac was to find comradeship, inspiration and enlightenment and at the same time he acknowledged that they were "the most evil and intelligent buncha bastards and shits in America." During the 1950s the publication of Jack Kerouacs' On the Road, Allen Ginsbergs' Howl and Other Poems, and William S. Burroughs' The Naked Lunch established the authors as a rebellious literary and cultural movement bent on shaking the foundations of American society. America in the fifties was enjoying an unprecedented period of economic prosperity while "silently enduring" the destructive forces of McCarthyism, racial intolerance, political suppression, and repressive conservatism. White, middle-class America with it's passionate addiction to the dollar had become smug, corrupt, hypocritical and suspicious of the individual. The "beats" were having none of it, and as Paul O'Niel stated in a LIFE article in 1959, the beats felt that "the only way a man can call his soul his own is by becoming an outcast." Allen Ginsberg wrote of his own "awakening" in the Columbia university bookstore one day when he suddenly became aware that everyone around him appeared to be hiding some sort of "unconscious torment from one another: they all looked like horrible grotesque masks, grotesque because hiding the knowledge from one another."

Kerouac, Ginsberg, and Burroughs, were all uniquely different artists yet they shared many of the same themes and techniques. They were greatly influenced by Jazz music and the jazzy hipster New York underworld. The Jazz philosophy of "there are no wrong notes" greatly appealed to them. Jazz seemed to disregard all the rules. It was raw and emotional. The beats sought to write the way Jazz sounded with its syncopated rhythms and its screaming dissonance. Kerouac's typewriter became his musical instrument. The music of Miles Davis, Dizzy Gillespie and Charlie Parker resounded in his works. And Ginsberg proclaimed in his book, Howl, "Holy the groaning saxophone! Holy the bop apocalypse! Holy the Jazz bands marijuana hipsters peace and junk and drums!"

The Beats shared in their belief that modern society was lacking in spiritual values. They were opposed to the "rat race" which they felt deadened the soul, wasted time and brutalized feeling. All three artists felt the dissaffection of the outsider. They reviled the "square" who seemed to be "stuck in a rut" in his endless pursuit of the dollar. To be beat was to be appalled by the ugliness, the emptiness, the soulessness of contemporary society. To be beat was to refuse the American ideal. To reject suburban morals and values. To be beat was to come to terms with the reality of life as it was, to refuse the white-wash. The beats sought to penetrate beyond the glossy surface of things. They found conventional American society wanting in spiritual values and so they sought an alternative. They sought to expand consciousness through their travels, sexual experimentation, drugs, and delving into Zen Buddhism. Thomas F. Merrill in his study of Allen Ginsberg wrote that the beats were in effect "conscientous objectors."

Influences on Western culture

There are many authors who can claim to be influenced by the beats (see the individual articles for each of the Beat writers); but the Beat Generation phenomenon itself has had a huge influence on Western Culture overall, larger than just the effects of some writers and artists on other writers and artists.

In many ways, the Beats can be taken as the first subculture (here meaning a cultural subdivision on intellectual/artistic/lifestyle/political grounds, rather than on any obvious difference in ethnic or religious backgrounds). During the very conformist post-World War II era they were one of the forces engaged in a questioning of traditional values which produced a break with the mainstream culture that to this day people react to -- or against.

There's no question that Beats produced a great deal of interest in lifestyle experimentation (notably in regards to sex and drugs); and they had a large intellectual effect in encouraging the questioning of authority (a force behind the anti-war movement); and many of them were very active in popularizing interest in Zen Buddhism in the West.

A quotation from Allen Ginsberg's A Definition of the Beat Generation as published in Friction, 1 (Winter 1982), revised for Beat Culture and the New America:

1950-1965:

Some essential effects of Beat Generation artistic movement can be characterized in the following terms:

* Spiritual liberation, sexual "revolution" or "liberation," i.e., gay liberation, somewhat catalyzing women's liberation, black liberation, Gray Panther activism.

* Liberation of the word from censorship.

* Demystification and/or decriminalization of some laws against marijuana and other drugs.

* The evolution of rhythm and blues into rock and roll as a high art form, as evidenced by the Beatles, Bob Dylan, and other popular musicians influenced in the later fifties and sixties by Beat generation poets' and writers' works.

* The spread of ecological consciousness, emphasized early on by Gary Snyder and Michael McClure, the notion of a "Fresh Planet."

* Opposition to the military-industrial machine civilization, as emphasized in writings of Burroughs, Huncke, Ginsberg, and Kerouac.

* Attention to what Kerouac called (after Spengler) a "second religiousness" developing within an advanced civilization.

* Return to an appreciation of idiosyncrasy as against state regimentation.

* Respect for land and indigenous peoples and creatures, as proclaimed by Kerouac in his slogan from On the Road: "The Earth is an Indian thing."

The essence of the phrase "beat generation" may be found in On the Road with the celebrated phrase: "Everything belongs to me because I am poor."

Transition to the "Hippie" era

Some time during the 1960s, the rapidly expanding "beat" culture underwent a transformation: the "Beat Generation" gave way to "The Sixties Counterculture", which was accompanied by a shift in public terminology from "Beatnik" to "hippie".

This was in many respects a gradual transition. Many of the original Beats remained active participants, notably Allen Ginsberg, who became a fixture of the anti-war movement -- though equally notably, Kerouac did not remain active on the scene: he broke with Ginsberg and criticized the 60s protest movements as "new excuses for spitefulness".

The Beats in general were a large influence on members of the new "counterculture", for example, in the case of Bob Dylan who became a close friend of Allen Ginsberg.

The year 1963 found Ginsberg living in San Francisco with Neal Cassady and Charles Plymell at 1403 Gough St. Shortly after that Ginsberg connected with Ken Kesey's crowd who was doing LSD testing at Stanford, and Plymell was instrumental in publishing the first issue of R. Crumb's Zap Comix on his printing press a few years later then moved to Ginsberg's commune in Cherry Valley, NY in the early 1970s. (The Plymells never lived at the Farm, just visited there; although they remained in Cherry Valley.)

According to Ed Sanders the change in the public label from "beatnik" to "hippie" happened after the 1967 "Be-In" in San Francisco's Golden Gate Park (where Allen Ginsberg, Gary Snyder and Michael McClure were leading the crowd in chanting "Om").

There were certainly some stylistic differences between "beatniks" and "hippies" — somber colors, dark shades, and goatees gave way to colorful "psychedelic" clothing and long hair. The beats were known for "playing it cool" (keeping a low profile) but the hippies became known for "being cool" (displaying their individuality).

In addition to the stylistic changes, there were some changes in substance: the beats tended to be essentially apolitical, but the hippies became actively engaged with the civil rights movement and the anti-war movement. To quote Gary Snyder in a 1974 interview (collected in The Beat Vision):

... the next key point was Castro taking over Cuba. The apolitical quality of Beat thought changed with that. It sparked quite a discussion and quite a dialogue; many people had been basic pacifists with considerable disillusion with Marxian revolutionary rhetoric. At the time of Castro's victory, it had to be rethought again. Here was a revolution that had used violence and that was apparently a good thing. Many people abandoned the pacifist position at that time or at least began to give more thought to it. In any case, many people began to look to politics again as having possibilities. From that follows, at least on some levels, the beginning of civil rights activism, which leads through our one whole chain of events: the Movement.

We had little confidence in our power to make any long range or significant changes. That was the 50s, you see. It seemed that bleak. So that our choices seemed entirely personal existential lifetime choices that there was no guarantee that we would have any audience, or anybody would listen to us; but it was a moral decision, a moral poetic decision. Then Castro changed things, then Martin Luther King changed things ...

Drug usage

The country’s many drug abuse centers have served several generations, and will continue to do so as long as drug addiction remains a problem.

The original members or the Beat Generation group — in Allen Ginsberg's phrase, "the libertine circle" — used a number of different drugs.

In addition to the alcohol common in American life, they were also interested in marijuana, benzedrine and, in some cases, opiates such as morphine. As time went on, many of them began using other psychedelic drugs, such as peyote, yage, and LSD.

Much of this usage can fairly be termed "experimental", in that they were generally unfamiliar with the effects of these drugs, and there were intellectual aspects to their interest in them as well as a simple pursuit of hedonistic intoxication.

Benzedrine at that time was available in the form of plastic inhalers, containing a piece of folded paper soaked in the drug. They would typically crack open the inhalers and drop the paper in coffee, or just wad it up and swallow it whole.

Opiates could be obtained in the form of morphine "syrettes": a squeeze tube with a hypodermic needle tip.

As the Beat phenomenon spread (transforming from Beat to "beatnik" to "hippie"), usage of some of these drugs also became more widespread. According to stereotype, the "hippies" commonly used the psychedelic drugs (marijuana, LSD), though the use of other drugs such as amphetemines was also widespread.

The actual results of this "experimentation" can be difficult to determine. Claims that some of these drugs can enhance creativity, insight or productivity were quite common, as is the belief that the drugs in use were a key influence on the social events of the time.

Historical context

The postwar era was a time where the dominant culture was desperate for a reassuring planned order; but there was a strong intellectual undercurrent calling for spontaneity, an end to psychological repression; a romantic desire for a more chaotic, Dionysian existence.

The beats were a manifestation of this undercurrent (and over time, a primary focus for those energies), but they were not the only one. Before Jack Kerouac embraced "spontaneous prose", there were other artists pursuing self-expression by abandoning control, notably the improvisational elements in jazz music, and the action paintings of Jackson Pollock and the other abstract expressionists.

Also, there were other artists in the post-war period who embraced a similar disdain for refined control, often with the opposite intent of suppressing the ego, and avoiding self-expression; notably, the works of the composer/writer John Cage and the paintings and "assemblages" of Robert Rauschenberg. The "cut-up" technique that Brion Gysin developed and that William Burroughs adopted after publishing Naked Lunch bears a strong resemblance to Cage's "chance operations" approach.

The beatniks were certainly not the only form of experimental writing in the post-war period. Various other movements/scenes can be identified that were happening roughly concurrently:

* The Angries a group of post-war British writers with which the Beats are sometimes compared
* The Black Mountain poets (which John Cage was also associated with)
* The San Francisco Renaissance can be regarded as a separate movement of its own, with origins preceding the beats.

There were many influences on the beat generation writers: Blake was a large intellectual influence on Allen Ginsberg and there are striking echoes of Walt Whitman's style in Ginsberg's work; the novel You Can't Win by Jack Black was a strong influence on William Burroughs; Marcel Proust's work was read by many of the beats, and may have inspired Kerouac in his grand scheme for a multi-volume autobiographical work.

The full historical background arguably includes Henry David Thoreau, Imagism (especially Ezra Pound, William Carlos Williams and H.D.), the Objectivists and Henry Miller. Some points to consider:

* Gary Snyder read Pound early and was encouraged in his interests in Japan and China by Pound's work.

* William Carlos Williams encouraged a number of beats and wrote a preface for Howl and other poems.

* Pound was also important to Allen Ginsberg and to most of the San Francisco Rennaissance group (Charles Olson, Robert Creeley, etc).



TOPICS: History; Miscellaneous; Society
KEYWORDS: beatniks; castro; cuba; hippies; history; misc; society
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To: DustyMoment

And the sixties still Suck.

Why do you say that? What about the 60s suck?

Politics,music,Viet Nam,loss of legal money,erosion of civil rights,return of the communists,lost the farm, cinema,’literature’,just thankful I survived. Though little has improved since.


101 posted on 11/25/2012 9:57:36 PM PST by S.O.S121.500 (Nothing so vexes me as a Democrat above ground. Enforce the Bill of Rights.)
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To: dalereed
Remember that you didn't know who Elvis Presley was, until 2 or 3 years ago.

"On most nights in Newport Beach in 1960, one could find my older sister Diane slouched comfortably on a couch at the Prison of Socrates, a beatnik coffee house where she regularly drank java and read her poetry on open mike night."

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102 posted on 11/25/2012 10:19:57 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischers successful run in Nebraska)
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To: ansel12

By 1960 I had been married 2 years and was running a construction company.


103 posted on 11/25/2012 10:41:51 PM PST by dalereed
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To: Blue Ink

Well Hi Howdy there Blue Ink!

I am a Boomer—couldn’t help it, as my mother refused to carry me for another 30 plus years, so she birthed me back in the 50s. I was raised with the Cuban Missile Crisis, Political Assassinations, revolution in the streets and some great music over the am radio dial. I was a child in the 60s, The last generation of innocence in my opinion.

I was a cub scout, a boy scout, like the Beatles, Rolling Stones, and ALL the great bands out of San Francisco. I was raised in the SF Bay Area, the epicenter so to speak of all the ills. To make matters worse, I was actually born in Berkeley. (Cause dad, a Korean War Vet was majoring business).

I served my country as an armor crewman in Germany, obtained the rank of Sergeant at discharge.

These days I sport a pony tail, make and sell tie dye, listen to the Grateful Dead and am fiercely conservative. I question authority still and believe that the government is lying to me. I want the government and you to leave me alone to live me life as I see fit. And if THAT makes me a “hippie” so be it.

If I am what represents the ill of everything that keeps you from success, then I guess us “boomers” just need to curl up and die, eh?!


104 posted on 11/25/2012 10:51:24 PM PST by abigkahuna (I have achieved the goal of semi-literacy through public schooling.)
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To: dalereed

Yeah? Didn’t you ever take a daily paper or two and subscribe to magazines, maybe turn on the TV occasionally, discuss things with people, or your wife, listened to the radio?

I am still puzzled that you had never heard of Elvis Presley until we told you who he was.


105 posted on 11/25/2012 10:52:06 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischers successful run in Nebraska)
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To: abigkahuna; Blue Ink

Heck, I was a hippie who lived largely as a hitchhiker and drifter, and did not believe in the draft at the time, and after I won a permanent deferment from the draft, I enlisted in the Army almost immediately, went to jump school, and then started trying to bribe my way to Vietnam through the clerks.

I was always looking for something to do that was interesting.


106 posted on 11/25/2012 11:00:09 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischers successful run in Nebraska)
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To: ansel12

No anger, Ansel, sorry.

You have to acknowledge that you are a bit of a gadfly, right? When you light on someone and take a little bite, they are occasionally likely to react with a harmless swipe.

I just think we are playing a game of definitions here. You say you are a hippie and all those other people weren’t-—well, that’s fine.

But the larger questions are whether the cohort of Americans who were born or came of age in the post-War years have radically transformed American politics and society, and whether that cohort was shaped in some way by the anti-establishment/anti-war leftist drugs/sex/rock-n-roll movement so many of us associate with “hippies.”

I know that the people I mentioned are establishment figures now. That is my point. I was trying to suggest to you that during the 60s that type of person was almost certainly radicalized, and was hanging out with “hippies,” and they were not focused on conservation and self-sufficiency and thoughtful living, as were you.

I appreciated your response, Ansel, and apologize for my snappishness.


107 posted on 11/26/2012 3:15:29 AM PST by Fightin Whitey
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To: dalereed
Freaks just like you you baby boomer!

Please explain. What makes me a freak?

108 posted on 11/26/2012 10:12:45 AM PST by DustyMoment (Congress - another name for white collar criminals!!)
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To: S.O.S121.500
Politics,music,Viet Nam,loss of legal money,erosion of civil rights,return of the communists,lost the farm, cinema,’literature’,just thankful I survived

Well, I could discuss some of those topics with you, but I don't see the point.

That's not to say that I think the 60s were the greatest period in American history, I don't. IMO, the 60s were a transitional period between the post WW2 lull, and the events that occurred after the 60s.

I do believe that the 60s saw 2 wars, however, not just 1. Vietnam was the war we all recognize because it was in the news so much. What we fail to recognize is that while Vietnam was going on, there was something of a civil war here at home with the various radical groups on college campuses and the demonstrations in many of the bigger cities in America. That was also in the news a lot, but no one (other than me) has called it a civil war.

As for the music, well, my taste differs from yours. I think that the 60s was one of the greatest periods for music. The 30s and 40s brought us the big bands (who I think were also great), then there was the 60s. After that it was pretty much downhill, although, IMO, there were some standout groups in the years that followed the 60s.

It's a potato, potahto kind of thing.

109 posted on 11/26/2012 10:23:30 AM PST by DustyMoment (Congress - another name for white collar criminals!!)
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To: Fightin Whitey

The thing is that none of those people were ever anywhere close to being hippies, they are driven individuals, ambitious, demanding people, they are seeking power, recognition, influence, wealth, professional success, they were never mild mannered drop outs seeking to escape the system and be left alone and get in touch with nature, life and themselves.

If you want to see people similar to hippies today, then look to those people who are still trying to live outside of the system, who don’t care about money and power, I still prefer the company of the pick-up driving, guitar playing independent drop out types with their gardens and their ‘earth mother’ wives, barefoot kids, and their guns and wood burning stoves, who might or might not wear a ponytail, but have friends who do.

In the 1970s and 1980s I would scoff at the left’s ubiquitous heroic TV figure of the “ex-hippie” who was now an heroic Attorney and so on, as I pointed out to people, those weren’t hippies, they had been ambitious college students who smoked pot, and attended some rock concerts, and had possibly had contact with some hippies, but hippies did not get PHDs and law degrees,and were not among the most driven, competitive, ambitious people in America.

Hippies were baffled by those people, I remember looking at the yippies, and thinking that the 60s were over.

The yippies and their type are what many people today think were hippies, they were the opposite.

Yippies and their similars, were the Cornell Wests, David Axelrod types, man how I despised them, and the corrupt people who created them and empowered them, the judges who refused to maintain order in their court rooms, as the yippies turned trials into circuses, the college presidents who pretended to oppose them, and then let them takeover and reshape the universities, today hippie just means anything and everything related to the 1960s.


110 posted on 11/26/2012 11:25:39 AM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischers successful run in Nebraska)
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To: Fightin Whitey

In many ways America moved right under the boomers, the left managed their great swath of fatal destruction of America, from about 1935 through 1979, the fatal dagger was the 1965 Immigration Act.

People don’t realize that the Vietnam war was supported by the under 30s more so than any other age group, and that Vietnam was overwhelmingly fought by volunteers, or that in 1972 with the Vietnam war going, the draft going, and all the other wild stuff, the under 30 vote went for Nixon by 52%, or that one of the great Christian revivals emerged from that core street hippie identity which led to the Christian right.

The 1960s were immensely complex and passionate, and it is difficult to neatly package the different elements and endless shades and diversity of the incredibly open and hot blooded times.


111 posted on 11/26/2012 12:00:25 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischers successful run in Nebraska)
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To: ansel12

All I know is that I went off to college (red-state land-grant in my case) at the same time Obama did and in virtually every liberal arts course I took I heard EXACTLY the same line of crap that he is selling now.

And my instructors, many of them, were recently shaved up and showered off hairy marching smoked-up bead-wearers and they were influencing a lot of young people, me included for a time.

All my former friends who are now in media and teaching and legal/political-type professions never shook it off.

They voted for Clinton and they voted for Obama and they’ll vote for whatever leftist rolls up next, and so will most of their children.

There was NOTHING conservative about the baby-boomer professoriat I saw in the late 70s and early 80s. It was lock-step-lefty brother Ansel and these people were pouring into the academy fresh from the protest marches in the street.

I do not disagree with you that many, many boomers have been disciplined and greatly productive and also heroic in our nation’s times of need.

But the terrific prosperity of the post-War years also led to great waste, sloth, indulgence and gradual debilitation. Woe to us that it now seems the spoils of the boomer years have gone to the despoilers.


112 posted on 11/26/2012 12:50:09 PM PST by Fightin Whitey
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To: ansel12
What do you mean? Most of all of the famous names associated with the 1960s youth culture, were of the silent generation.

Sorry, I misunderstood your point.

113 posted on 11/26/2012 1:31:34 PM PST by DustyMoment (Congress - another name for white collar criminals!!)
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To: ansel12
The 1960s were immensely complex and passionate, and it is difficult to neatly package the different elements and endless shades and diversity of the incredibly open and hot blooded times.

Very nicely said, ansell! I wish that I could have described the 60s as eloquently! You summed it up very nicely.

114 posted on 11/26/2012 1:39:01 PM PST by DustyMoment (Congress - another name for white collar criminals!!)
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To: dalereed
There sure wern’t any such creeps in So. California!

I was born in '53. I only knew about beatniks because of Maynard G. Krebs. And I do think it was an east-coast thing.

115 posted on 11/26/2012 2:55:53 PM PST by BfloGuy (Workers and consumers are, of course, identical.)
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To: DustyMoment
I posted it because I have become weary of the Boomer-bashers here.

Well, good for you. I'm sick of the Boomer-bashing, too. The bashers ignore that it was the "Greatest Generation" that raised us. And about half of us turned out fine.

Blaming everything bad that has happened since 1968 on the "Boomers" is just a substitute for thinking. Individuals act; not great globs of generation-belongers.

116 posted on 11/26/2012 3:04:11 PM PST by BfloGuy (Workers and consumers are, of course, identical.)
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To: ffusco
I read On the Road many years ago and observed that the Beatnik culture is almost identical to most spoiled adolescents in college: Road trips, drugs, sloth, casual sex, a disdain for work and an air of moral superiority.

I get the impression that you had to have well-off and indulgent parents to be a properly disdainful beatnik. Having to actually work to feed yourself took too much time away from being "cool".

117 posted on 11/26/2012 3:25:29 PM PST by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: DustyMoment
I'm pretty sure Snyder was speaking largely for himself about Cuba and Castro. The "Beats" -- they hated being called "beatniks" -- were more concerned with private life and the arts than with politics and were largely over by then anyway. The politicized "beatniks" were the next generation, and the civil rights movement was much more significant for them than Castro ever was (as Vietnam was later on).

The Beats and their beatnik imitators represented bohemian tendencies that recurred throughout history -- in the Transcendentalists of the 1840s and 1850s, in the Greenwich Village radicals of the 1910s and the expatriate Lost Generation of the 1920s. What made things different in the mid-twentieth century movements is that the country was richer and could afford such rebellions -- or thought it could afford them.

118 posted on 11/26/2012 3:37:21 PM PST by x
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To: BfloGuy
Blaming everything bad that has happened since 1968 on the "Boomers" is just a substitute for thinking. Individuals act; not great globs of generation-belongers.

Well said. It is tragic that so many younger folks engage in the "group-think" they were programmed for by their public indoctrinators and haven't a shred of critical thinking aptitude.

119 posted on 11/26/2012 10:27:45 PM PST by DustyMoment (Congress - another name for white collar criminals!!)
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To: DustyMoment
It is tragic that so many younger folks engage in the "group-think" they were programmed for by their public indoctrinators and haven't a shred of critical thinking aptitude.

Yes, it is tragic. It is not an overstatement to use that word. It is completely up to parents nowadays to teach their children critical thinking.

Now, that has always been the responsibility of parents, but once upon a time they could count on the schools to reinforce their teaching and build on it. That's no longer true and all too many young parents don't have many of those skills to begin with.

I think of the Boomers who claim to be socialists. They have had the luxury of spouting their nonsense while having the opportunity to thrive under a semi-free-market system they knew would be there to provide them a retirement, maintain the infrastructure, and provide them the consumer goods they all seem to love despite their stated beliefs.

The young they've indoctrinated to believe in socialism will probably actually have to live it.

120 posted on 11/27/2012 3:17:50 PM PST by BfloGuy (Workers and consumers are, of course, identical.)
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