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Russia Returns Lend-Lease WWII Bomber Debris to US
RIA Novosti ^ | April 3, 2014 | Andrei Marmyshev

Posted on 04/04/2014 7:04:15 PM PDT by Navy Patriot

KRASNOYARSK, April 3 (RIA Novosti) Andrei Marmyshev - Fragments of a US bomber that crashed near the Russian city Krasnoyarsk in southern Siberia during World War II have been delivered to San Francisco, where they will form part of a memorial commemorating pilots who lost their lives in the war, a historian in Krasnoyarsk told RIA Novosti.

"San Francisco is planning to set up a memorial to pilots who died during the Second World War. The fragments of the Boston bomber will also be used," said Lt. Col. Vyacheslav Filippov, an aviation officer and historian.

"For example, they are going to use the plaque from the plane's cockpit that carries its serial number and production date," Filippov said.

The A-20B Boston bomber was sent to the Soviet Union by the US for their common fight against Nazi Germany under an allied wartime military equipment program, called Lend-Lease. The plane arrived via a secret route across the northwestern Pacific known as the Alaska-Siberia air road.

(Excerpt) Read more at en.ria.ru ...


TOPICS: History; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: a20b; allies; krasnoyarsk; lendlease; peaceoffensive; sanfrancisco; siberia; vyacheslavfilippov; whattooksolong; worldwareleven; worldwarii; wwii
WWII tidbit.
1 posted on 04/04/2014 7:04:15 PM PDT by Navy Patriot
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To: Navy Patriot

My dad flunked out of A-20 school. He went back to building airfields


2 posted on 04/04/2014 7:06:25 PM PDT by AppyPappy
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To: Navy Patriot

San Francisco is building a memorial for Russian pilots?


3 posted on 04/04/2014 7:20:20 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: AppyPappy
A-20’s are not particularly easy to fly, but this particular Russian supply route was one of the most difficult and dangerous in the world.
4 posted on 04/04/2014 7:23:26 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: PAR35
San Francisco is building a memorial for Russian pilots?

No, for WWII Allied aircraft and all those that crewed them.

5 posted on 04/04/2014 7:25:24 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot; massmike

So it’s only fair that we return the remains of our Boston Bombers to the Russians in return.


6 posted on 04/04/2014 7:33:27 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (Operating out of weakness? Imagine if he was working from a position of strength!)
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To: Navy Patriot

no GPS in those days, and what good was a compass that far North. Siberia seems the most desolate land on the planet save Antarctica.


7 posted on 04/04/2014 7:35:53 PM PDT by RitchieAprile
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To: NonValueAdded
So it’s only fair that we return the remains of our Boston Bombers to the Russians in return.

Well, it would be fair to return 'em to Chechnya.

8 posted on 04/04/2014 7:49:31 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: RitchieAprile
Siberia seems the most desolate land on the planet save Antarctica.

For a very short period each year, Siberia is acceptable.

If we ever do have any of that Globull Warming crap, Siberia will become a serious resource.

9 posted on 04/04/2014 7:54:23 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot

IMHO Siberia will become a resource for China - they have the people, and Russia doesn’t. Eventually, China will grab Siberia. China and Russia are natural enemies - Nixon was a foreign policy marvel, to have played them off of each other, as he did, in the 70’s. Maybe in our lifetimes, we will have a leader who figures this out, and turns them back against each other, while we watch, on the sidelines. Thank you.


10 posted on 04/04/2014 7:59:51 PM PDT by jttpwalsh
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To: Navy Patriot

~~~lend-lease~~~

I’m sorry, you didn’t check the optional insurance.

That will be $20 million dollars.


11 posted on 04/04/2014 8:02:25 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: jttpwalsh
Russia is expecting competition from China, she has already claimed the sea floor under the North Pole, reopened, populated and serviced with Naval Bases - Ports, the Northern Passage, and is offering escorted trade routes directly from Chinese Pacific ports to Western European ports.

Additionally, she has secured Arctic oil in agreement with Norway on ownership.

Likely there will be more negotiation than unilateral action, but you're right, Chinese citizens will be substantially involved in opening Siberia.

12 posted on 04/04/2014 8:11:02 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: F15Eagle
Actually, I'm not well informed on who paid us back what, but I think Russia got a deal.

Somebody, maybe Norway, paid us every dime.

13 posted on 04/04/2014 8:14:08 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot

I thought it was Belgium (I had once heard) but the claim is Finland ... and some claim later, GB.

Dunno, actually.


14 posted on 04/04/2014 8:15:59 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: Navy Patriot

15 posted on 04/04/2014 8:16:42 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: F15Eagle
... but the claim is Finland...

Yeah, Finland sounds right, but that's all I got to go on.

16 posted on 04/04/2014 8:22:42 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: F15Eagle
A nice looking aircraft, funny for a submarine sailor to have a thing for aircraft.

P-51 Mustangs are my favorite.

17 posted on 04/04/2014 8:26:10 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot

I tend to agree - demographics being the key - China has them in her favor, Russia, negative. I was in the former U.S.S.R. years ago, the Russians absolutely despised The Chinese. Two totally different ethnic groups, with no history of tolerance. Something’s gotta give. Thank s for your reply.


18 posted on 04/04/2014 8:26:44 PM PDT by jttpwalsh
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To: Navy Patriot

The P-51 was also my fav, with the P-38 a close second, though the F-4F comes in a slightly distant third.

But I was bummed the Allison was not the hottest engine - because they are soooooo cool.


19 posted on 04/04/2014 8:29:12 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: jttpwalsh
...the Russians absolutely despised The Chinese. Two totally different ethnic groups, with no history of tolerance.

Yes, but both have matured a great deal, and are continuing to do so at an even more rapid rate now.

The Chinese have solved how to build manufacturing towns in Africa and make them safe for the workers, and not piss anybody off doing it. Quite a feat.

20 posted on 04/04/2014 8:37:58 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: F15Eagle

Love that Allison two stage supercharger!


21 posted on 04/04/2014 8:39:41 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot
I remember the Avalon Hill Luftwaffe game from about 40 years ago.

The A20s were pretty minimal, as I remember, at least distilled down to the quantitative effectiveness compared to heavy and medium bombers.

22 posted on 04/04/2014 8:44:04 PM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: Calvin Locke
Russia had a lower level of support infrastructure and assets for aircraft, and the smaller bombers lent themselves to manual support and imperfect airstrips.

Smaller payloads, but they got there.

23 posted on 04/04/2014 9:02:42 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot

Indeed, yes. I’d quite hope to see a deal where Chinese interests buy, lease, or otherwise peacefully mine Siberia - it would be cheaper, in the long run, then war. Russia has a history (Alaska) of selling resources they couldn’t develop, having under utilized them for centuries, I’d hope to see them follow that template. I’d be even happier if a U.S. leader could parlay their competition to our gain :)


24 posted on 04/04/2014 9:04:38 PM PDT by jttpwalsh
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To: jttpwalsh

If Russia evolves to free market capitalism, and becomes a very tough competitor, we all gain, or we don’t deserve to.


25 posted on 04/04/2014 9:10:18 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot

I always considered that a rising tide lifts all boats, and that a larger pizza means the same number of slices, means more, for everyone. The problem, as I see, is that The Russians are hard wired to see economic matters as a zero sum game - if you gain, I lose. Too bad, actually. They would actually make good friends, if we could play the cards, correctly. Thanks!


26 posted on 04/04/2014 9:14:15 PM PDT by jttpwalsh
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To: jttpwalsh
The problem, as I see, is that The Russians are hard wired to see economic matters as a zero sum game - if you gain, I lose.

I honestly don't know Russian thinking on these matters.

Economic natural law concepts are esoteric and difficult to present with a considerable language barrier, plus for almost everyone who is not quite young, un learning and then re learning is required before ya can even communicate on economics.

27 posted on 04/04/2014 9:25:17 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot

They have spent centuries, getting hammered down, by their leadership class - they only understand behavior, a few steps above caveman level. I read an anecdote once, that summed it up, well. During the waning days of WWII, an American, and Russian unit linked up. A Russian got killed, and a GI reached down, and retrieved the Russian version of his “dog tags”, and handed them to a Soviet officer. The officer was puzzled by the gesture, so the American explained it was done, so his family would be notified, of the death. The officer replied “When the war is over, and he doesn’t return home, then they will know that he is dead”.


28 posted on 04/04/2014 9:34:50 PM PDT by jttpwalsh
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To: jttpwalsh
... they only understand behavior, a few steps above caveman level.

That's a little harsh on a civilization that has produced half the world class symphony and most of the ballet on the planet, as well as all those Russian specific expressions of Christian faith.

29 posted on 04/05/2014 7:55:05 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: jttpwalsh; Navy Patriot

~IMHO Siberia will become a resource for China - they have the people, and Russia doesn’t. Eventually, China will grab Siberia. China and Russia are natural enemies - Nixon was a foreign policy marvel, to have played them off of each other, as he did, in the 70’s. Maybe in our lifetimes, we will have a leader who figures this out, and turns them back against each other, while we watch, on the sidelines. Thank you.~

Nobody likes to live in Siberia, let alone Chinese who prefer mild climate.
An interstate commute is a death match in Siberia, truckers are paid up to $10,000 a week and still there are few people willing to take a job.
Browse youtube for some videos of efforts in takes to bring oil and gas from these places.


30 posted on 04/05/2014 9:17:13 AM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: wetphoenix

I see your point, but I think China really needs the natural resources there, and may not consider the reality that you describe. Thank you.


31 posted on 04/05/2014 9:46:49 AM PDT by jttpwalsh
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To: Navy Patriot

Yes, some of what they have created, is to marvel at. On the other hand, when I was in the Moscow airport, and many other public facilities, a hole in the cement constituted a urinal. Even as recently as 2008, the Russian conscripts used toilets in Georgia, for washing potatoes.


32 posted on 04/05/2014 10:24:14 AM PDT by jttpwalsh
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To: wetphoenix

Yo, Phoenix, this part of the discussion came as a result of my remark to the effect that “If global warming was real, Siberia would become much more productive and a great resource”. We’re just kicking around how that better climate would attract everybody to Siberia, not just Russians.


33 posted on 04/05/2014 1:41:36 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: jttpwalsh

~Yes, some of what they have created, is to marvel at. On the other hand, when I was in the Moscow airport, and many other public facilities, a hole in the cement constituted a urinal. Even as recently as 2008, the Russian conscripts used toilets in Georgia, for washing potatoes.~

In what exactly major airport or public facility have you seen it? I’m not into arguing that Russia is somehow superior in that department, but in the vast majority of places I visited it was no different than in Western Europe. BTW, toilets and potatoes is a story from another war and another place. I first heard it about WWII and Germany. It was probably a BS back when.
For Georgia it is an absolute BS. All of these stories of barbarian Russian behavior there sounds about as real as stories of American troops marauding in Somalia for food and home appliances. It would impress a worker or peasant in North Korea but not someone who used to travel in US and Somalia or Georgia and Russia respectively.
A combat gear on Russian soldier worth more than average Georgian household and his annual wage may easily buy a village or two there.


34 posted on 04/05/2014 6:26:28 PM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: Navy Patriot

~Yo, Phoenix, this part of the discussion came as a result of my remark to the effect that “If global warming was real, Siberia would become much more productive and a great resource”. We’re just kicking around how that better climate would attract everybody to Siberia, not just Russians.~

Yo,Patriot, I got it but the reality is most of Siberia is ever opened due to enormous cold. There is a bog under your feet most of the time. Have you seen a moschitos there? You han HEAR them hitting a ground as you are waving your hands to scare them off. Have you heard about encephalitic ticks? You can see dozens climbing up your shoes the moment you left a helicopter there. Let one sucker bite you and you generally have two options which are permanent disability or death within two weeks.


35 posted on 04/05/2014 7:16:50 PM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: wetphoenix

I’m talking about summer time there.


36 posted on 04/05/2014 7:18:09 PM PDT by wetphoenix
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