Posted on 12/05/2019 12:19:28 PM PST by Eleutheria5
Joe can do more push-ups and has blonde leg hair, let’s not forget, you damned liars!
Heck, Biden is currently just one year younger than Barkley before he DIED in 1956 at the age of 78.
Modern era of Veeps begins with Nixon, first sitting VP since Breckenridge to get nominated for Pres.
Before that few had much of a role in the administration, I don’t think they even told Truman about the nukes even though FDR knew he was dying.
Garner said it best about the worth of the office, prior to it’s modern relevance. Hell, even the President croaking didn’t do them much good, TR was the first one to succeed to the office to even be nominated for “re”election (not counting Filmore snagging the Whig and Know-Nothing nominations after losing the Whig nomination 4 years earlier as the incumbent).
I never heard that. I heard a lot about his ambition.
I did read, and I don’t know if ANY of these alleged behind the scenes stories can be trusted, that he played it really cool instead of begging for the office like Christie and that really impressed Trump.
Cactus Jack Garner probably should’ve stayed put as House Speaker. He might’ve been able to retain the office and been far more powerful. Although the downside is that as a center-right pol, the left wing would’ve sought to depose him before long. The purge of 1937-8 comes to mind where FDR wanted every non-leftist pol taken out of the Dem party.
Garner was a youthful 64 when he became VP in the Spring of 1933. He was 72 when he left office in 1941 after his failed attempt to primary FDR. As it turned out, he was only in his prime. He lived to just 15 days before his 99th birthday in 1967. Born just 3 years after the end of the Civil War, he lived long enough to see the NASA space program.
As for Alben Barkley, he wasn’t that much older than Truman (just 6 1/2 years). He was 71 when he became VP in January 1949. I don’t know how seriously Barkley thought he’d be the nominee in 1952, but he did at least try laying the groundwork. It was cited that age was his biggest hindrance. Still, that didn’t stop him in 1954 in running again for the Senate and beating incumbent liberal Republican John Sherman Cooper. As stated, he died less than 16 months into his term in 1956 at 78 (so, he would’ve died in office as President before the 1st term expired).
Obviously, the tradition of a vice president becoming president started with John Adams, then was abandoned as typically the Secretary of State became the jumping off point for the presidency. Excluding assuming the office by death, no other vice president became president prior to Nixon-—and he had a hiatus of six years-—with the exception of Martin van Buren, who was a dismal failure as president. (Probably why more veeps didn’t succeed).
In the 1800s, the nature of the Secretary of State position was that it was far more visible; and second to that was the mayorship of New York. A number of NYC mayors ran (and lost) although Cleveland was mayor of Buffalo before he won.
By the 1960s, the memory of Truman and LBJ becoming president gave people more interest in the vp selection and office, then, of course, Ford was the final piece of evidence that Americans had to pay attention to who the veep was. That was why there was such a hue and cry when Reagan in 1976 named Schweiker as his veep choice. He was a liberal, and Reagan was old.
Under GHW Bush, however, the veep position slid back into irrelevance until it was time for the election. This was largely due to the fact that as veep, Bush was incredibly loyal, backing Reagan 100% of the time in internal fights and cabinet meetings. He also stayed remarkably quiet, knowing he’d get the nomination if he did so.
Clinton put Algore into some prominent roles (”cutting government waste”-—a bust), but Clinton’s Lewinsky problems meant that it did Gore no good when the election arrived, as he couldn’t be seen as too close to Clinton.
There’s no “then and now” for the GOP. They are STILL a political party, they are STILL only loyal to themselves not the country, they STILL have zero core beliefs. They are TAINTED. Trump hasn’t hijacked the party. They’re careerists. They know Trump is temporary. The party is forever. The establishment knows he’s 5 years left tops. They’re biding their time.
The GOP doesn’t have to back shit. And isn’t backing him. They do NOT support the working man. They do NOT support ANYTHING. You need to stop drinking the koolaide. If you think the GOP has actually changed you’re believing LIES.
It’s not revolutionary. It’s the pattern. As you admitted. The GOP won plenty of elections without support of the blacks. The Dems will win without it. And of course their hold isn’t shattered at all. Trump’s still only getting around 25% of minority support. And that’s Trump NOT the GOP. The Dems still got a rock solid 75%. They’ll be fine. There’s a longer pattern about how conservative and liberal switch places over the course of 20 years. That’s a big part of why the parties have no core beliefs. Half their lifers were elected when the party’s catch word meant something completely different. But they keep voting with the party anyway. Because the party is king.
The GOP won’t keep it up after 2025. Because there is no “it”. You’re believing in BS that doesn’t exist. 2025 the new Dem president gets inaugurated. The pattern HOLDS.
Reciprocity wasn’t invented by Gephardt. It’s an idea that’s been around in trade agreements for as long as there have been trade agreements. It predates this country. It will come, it will go. Just like everything else.
“There’s no “then and now” for the GOP. They are STILL a political party, they are STILL only loyal to themselves not the country, they STILL have zero core beliefs. They are TAINTED.”
It is in the nature of political parties that to gain power, they must espouse a set of core beliefs. That may only be temporary, because those core beliefs fall in and out of fashion. They want power, so they have to support the working men and women whom Trump brought in, and stop talking about a service economy in which they have no place. Coal miners don’t do computers.
Trump hasn’t hijacked the party.
He has, for as long as he is POTUS, or someone else who espouses his core beliefs. And while you are right that political parties are made up of careerists, Trump does have core beliefs. So did Reagan. So did Dubya. The only Republican POTUS who had no core beliefs was Bush 41, and his failure to have sincere beliefs ended 12 years of Republican presidency, even though he won a war.
They’re careerists. They know Trump is temporary. The party is forever. The establishment knows he’s 5 years left tops. They’re biding their time.
Of course they are. And the question is, will his core beliefs get a permanent residence within the GOP. I.e., will they have to keep on spreading their legs for these beliefs, or will some other customer come along who wants it French style. Bush 41 tried to eschew supply side economics. He was rejected, and Bill Clinton came in. After one very bad term, he was challenged by Bob Dole, who suddenly got supply-side religion. He lost, due to bad performance and Dem demagoguery, but Bush 43 won on a platform of supply side economics, which he kept to, but won two terms on the power of a war on terror. So whether supply side economics and partial privatization of social security payments had staying power remained an open question. Pattern held with Obama. He got two terms as well. But when Trump won a surprise victory, supply side was vindicated as a core value of the GOP’s new base, and that interests the GOP. Because with a new base, they have a way of duplicating the results of 2016, and will do so in 2024.
The GOP doesn’t have to back shit. And isn’t backing him. They do NOT support the working man. They do NOT support ANYTHING.
They support their own empowerment. Therefore, they have to support the working man. If there were some oligarchs around who could get them power, they would support them. They are whores, snobbish whores. But the reality is that they’re forced to support the working man to have power, even though they would rather have the oligarchs. Hijacked.
“You need to stop drinking the koolaide. If you think the GOP has actually changed you’re believing LIES.”
They don’t have to actually change. They are forced to drink koolaide themselves. Orange koolaide with a long red streak in it.
“It’s not revolutionary. It’s the pattern. As you admitted. The GOP won plenty of elections without support of the blacks. The Dems will win without it. And of course their hold isn’t shattered at all. Trump’s still only getting around 25% of minority support. And that’s Trump NOT the GOP. The Dems still got a rock solid 75%. They’ll be fine. “
Discost, discost, discost. You don’t know how Democrats get elected. They absolutely MUST get 90% of the black and Hispanic vote. That way, they can get by with only 40% of the white vote. 75% minority vote means that they do not win, unless they start appealing to more whites, such as working class, whom they’ve been systematically pissing off for the past eight years. But they do have the urban professionals, academics and aging hippies for that 40%, and possibly millenials, too, but they’re in play.
The GOP has never played such a dangerous game, with good reason. They know it won’t work forever, as the Dems are now discovering to their sorrow. And parties ARE usually forever.
“Reciprocity wasn’t invented by Gephardt. It’s an idea that’s been around in trade agreements for as long as there have been trade agreements. It predates this country.”
Democracy has been around before the United States. Reciprocity was last used by Gephardt, and then dropped from the lexicon of politicians until Trump revived it. Of course all trading nations want reciprocity and balanced exchange of goods. But from Reagan ‘til Obama, they didn’t want to make a big deal about it. Trump did.
This pattern is not absolute. The Dems had 20 years of control of the WH from 1933 through 1953. The GOP had 12 years from 1981 through 1993. The Dems had only four years from 1977 through 1981. Republicans might have had control for 12 years from 1953 through 1965, but allowed themselves to be cheated out of it; or rather, Nixon allowed them to be cheated out of it, probably over some strident objections from party heads. Patterns reflect the mood of the electorate, and are not mathematical absolutes. I suggest you read Asimov’s Foundation series, especially Volume 2, Foundation and Empire, for a discussion of “psychohistory” and political patterns.
Don Jr.
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Works for me.
It’s called lying. That’s what political parties do to get power. They LIE. They declare a set of beliefs, NEVER govern to them, poll to see how the public is changing, lather, rinse, repeat.
No he has not. The party isn’t backing him for crap. They’re not running on supporting him. They aren’t voting with him. Hell they aren’t even getting his ideas to the floor for a vote. They are NOT backing him at all. They are tolerating him. Doesn’t matter if the POTUS has core beliefs. The party does NOT. Never has, never will.
His core beliefs are NOT in the party now. So the answer to your question is OF COURSE NOT.
Bush lost because he ran on 4 more years of a very popular outbound president and 4 years later the mushy middle realized he wasn’t Reagan. Just like Van Buren. And Clinton won re-election because that’s the norm. And Bush2 won because that’s the norm. Nobody give a $%&^ about supply side. 90% of the populace can’t even tell you what it is. And I include all of Congress in that 90%. And Trump’s victory wasn’t at all surprising. It was the GOP’s turn. I knew in 2003 (when I read the meta study about elections) that the GOP could nominate a slug in 2016 and win. And I’m telling you right now the Dems can nominate a slug in 2024 and it WILL win.
The GOP is NOT supporting the working man. Stop lying to yourself.
Eleuth eleuth eleuth. You haven’t paid attention to a word I’ve said. Dems getting 90% of the minority vote is relatively new. And they’ve won plenty of elections without it.
The GOP is playing the EXACT SAME GAME they’ve been playing from day one. It ain’t dangerous. Frankly it isn’t even interesting. They know the cycle as well as anybody else.
The pattern is absolute. Gravity pulls things down. The sun rises in the East. And the GOP and Dems have no core beliefs and will cycle through power as regularly as the seasons.
We’re done. This has gotten boring. You’re a true believer and won’t believe the truth. Just write down what I said. When everything I predicted comes to pass maybe you’ll stop being a deluded dupe. Have a great Christmas.
I can’t keep answering point for point. It isn’t ‘boring,’ which smacks of arrogance. It’s very exciting pitting ideas against ideas and seeing how each plays out. But you’re bored and I’m short on time. So in brief, I’m sorry you confuse the laws of physics with the laws of party rule. If it were so, we wouldn’t have such conspicuous exceptions. Whether the psychohistory that Asimov imagined existing one day, or economics, or politics, there are some basic concepts that tend to repeat themselves. For example, in economics there’s supply and demand. In politics, there is a swinging pendulum. In “psychohistory,” there will supposedly be others. But there are also wild cards. And whether or not you want to see it, Trump is one such, because he has changed the core of the GOP’s support by offering something of immediate use to the working class: Jobs. The working class has not been a concern of the GOP since the 1890s, when all of the leaders of the Homestead Strike were staunch Republicans and in favor of protectionism. But he hasn’t done that as if choosing sides in a class conflict. He has given workers jobs by making it worth the while of businessmen to move their factories back to the US and mine owners to reopen shuttered mines, through tax incentives and through deregulation. This is a revolutionary synthesis. It has the effect of bringing the Republican Party into power, except for a predictable midterm loss of the House.
The Republican establishment dislikes Trump, at most tolerates him, as you say. They did the same with Reagan. But since he is set up to win in a landslide in 2020 and win back the House in the bargain, they are most certainly supporting him, at least on balance. They are not opposed to being in power.
As for blacks giving 90% support to Dems, that happened in 1992 and 1996, as well a in 2008 and 2012. The immediate history is what concerns. They managed to win without such monolithic support in the past, but they also had more than 40% support from whites. They no longer do, so they absolutely MUST have 90% and therefore Trump or any other Republican candidate MUST be branded a firebreathing racist. Otherwise, the Dems are doomed. They burned their bridges with working class whites during Obama’s tenure.
I submit to you, that just as the Mule threw off Hari Seldon’s psychohistoric projections in Foundation and Empire, Trump is throwing off the usual patterns that you believe are immutable despite evidence to the contrary. And it happened before. FDR’s New Deal attracted black voters to the Dems in an unprecedented manner. It still was the party of the KKK. The New Deal was highly discriminatory. But in the face of starvation and dislocation, blacks turned to the FDR for whatever scraps he was willing to throw them. He was elected to four terms, dying in the last, but having the foresight to pick a VP who was capable beyond anyone’s expectations, who won a fifth term on his own merits.
Trump isn’t throwing anyone scraps. He’s bringing about an industrial renaissance in the face of stiff opposition, and it’s working. The proof is in the pudding, because GOP lawmakers in both houses are closing ranks against the impeachment farce. If the economy weakens, or if he’s found to actually be guilty of something that the voters care about, they will turn on him. But until something like that happens, his core beliefs are animating the GOP. Not because they like him or share his beliefs, but because they are being empowered by him, his beliefs, and his unique abilities.
Now go be bored. I have to go be busy.
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