Terri's Fight - (Daily Thread/Updates) November 14-18

Radio interview with one of Michael's ex-girlfriends, transcript from CBS News Sunday Morning - Sunday 11-09-03 (Martha Teischner reports over a series of pre-recorded video clips in this news magazine's lead story...), possible link to collusion in the legal proceedings involving attorney George Felos (representing Michael Schiavo) and the neurologist Dr. Peter Bambakidis (court appointed, independent, examining physician), information on Judge Greer not being a judge, Tiger Bay Club Schiavo Debate Info, Michael Schiavo charged with perjured testimony, Michael Schiavo is this month's "black boot" award winner from conspiracyworld.com, Schiavo case timeline and 2 informative letters to Gov. Bush.

This thread serves as a place for posting all new general information and references, along with links following Terri's case, plus information on cable news and talk radio shows dealing with the issue, court cases and press releases. This is also the place to post contact information, prayers and general discussion.

If you have something that qualifies as BREAKING NEWS or FRONT PAGE NEWS, please post it on a separate thread in that category in order to give it maximum exposure and then post a link to the article/thread here so that it will be included in the next update of links. Also, if you post links to articles from original sources and there is also a thread on FR, please link to the FR thread. Many original links become corrupt over time and we want to be able to access the information at will.

ATTENTION friends of Terri! I have been asked by the folks in Florida to post the following message:

PLEASE HONOR THIS REQUEST FROM TAMPA BAY, FLORIDA: DO NOT PUT NAME AND TOWN or other personal info of TERRI VOLUNTEERS in public posts on the Terri threads. If in doubt, DELETE THEIR NAME OUT!!! Please do not post personal addresses and phone #s, towns re: Terri's volunteers and her family. PLEASE SEND PEOPLE TO terrisfight.org for the Foundation Address. Thanks.

Many thanks to all of you who are helping keep FReepers and others up to date with information and for all your efforts in making this thread work. All the research, transcripts, prayers and contact information are invaluable. Special thanks to Calpernia for the header graphic.

Can a mistrial be declared in civil matters? It seems this whole sorry affair has been a circus run by evil clowns. It looks like there would be grounds to start all over. I realize that in one respect, that is what Gov. Bush is trying to do by fighting to uphold Terri's Law and seeking to have the case heard in Tallahassee, but it still isn't the same as overturning the previous ruling.

No mistrial because a mistrial by definition is when a jury can't come to a verdict. But, we have a case decided by a judge who didn't read or hear all the evidence, which he admits - so Terri wasn't even given the same rights as a defendant on trial before a jury. Certainly this point can be brought out in Bush's Constitutionality brief.

I hope if Bush prevails, the equivalent of a 'new trial' including a full review of all the evidence can be ordered. Nat Hentoff mentioned something about Bush being able to call for a special investigation or appointing a prosecutor in his latest column. This would be the legal redress if it can be proven Terri's Constitutional right to LIFE and DUE PROCESS was being violated, IMO.

supercat: "I would like to see a statute make plain that a person cannot be guardian of a spouse against whom they have or are engaged in adultery."

nicmarlo:

PROPOSED WORDING:
An individual who is the SPOUSE of an incapacitated person for whom guardianship is sought SHALL NOT be appointed as guardian or temporary guardian of the incapacitated spouse if the individual seeking guardianship has been found, at any time during the marriage to said incapacitated spouse (whether or not incapacitated at the time), to have:
1. committed adultery against his/her incapacitated spouse; or
2. impregnated a woman not his wife while still married to the incapacitated spouse; or
3. fathered/birthed illegitimate offspring while married to the incapacitated spouse.

-------------------------------------------------

Helix:

if the individual seeking guardianship has been found, at any time during the marriage to said incapacitated spouse
"I can understand the desire for such a law, but I think this might be over-reaching...."

HiTech RedNeck:

"There could be a clause whereby the spouse could issue a written or independently witnessed forgiveness."

trussell:

"Also need to include provisions to have guardianship removed if said spouse engages in these activities after being appointed guardian."

----------------------------------------------------

Helix, agreed; in the proposed word, as you rightly point out, it may be over-reaching. As HiTech pointed out, there could be some form of "proof" (and not "hearsay" proof) that the situation between the couple positively changed and that the disabled spouse, prior to becoming unable to speak, would allow the spouse who cheated on him/her to be guardian. But it cannot be the "hearsay evidence" put forth like MS---we'd be back to square one otherwise.

And trussell, I thought of that, too, after I posted my proposed wording.....which is now amended:

-------------------------------------------------------

AMENDED PROPOSED WORDING:
(A) An individual who is the SPOUSE of an incapacitated person for whom guardianship is sought SHALL NOT be appointed as guardian or temporary guardian of the incapacitated spouse if the individual seeking guardianship has been found, at any time during the marriage to said incapacitated spouse (whether or not incapacitated at the time), to have:
1. committed adultery against his/her incapacitated spouse; or
2. impregnated a woman not his wife while still married to the incapacitated spouse; or
3. fathered/birthed illegitimate offspring while married to the incapacitated spouse;
EXCEPTING IF said acts were known or made known to the incapacitated spouse and those acts were: a. proved, in writing, to have been forgiven by the incapacitated spouse; or
b. so far removed from the time said act(s) occurred and the incapacitation of the disabled spouse so as permit the conclusion that those acts were forgiven by the incapacitated spouse.
(B) If it is found that a spouse who, after having been appointed as guardian to said incapacitated spouse, has been found to have committed any act as listed in numbers 1, 2, or 3 herein, and unless the "exception clause" can otherwise be proven, the guardian shall be deemed disqualified and immediately removed as the incapacitated spouse's guardian. Another guardian shall immediately be appointed.

Judge says 'Terri's Law' violates Schiavo's rights

By Sean Mussenden | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted November 15, 2003

Gov. Jeb Bush is violating Terri Schiavo's
constitutional rights by preventing her from
dying, a judge said Friday in ordering the
governor to return to court next week to defend
his actions.

"The deprivation of this right is immediate,
ongoing and presumptively unconstitutional,"
Pinellas Circuit Judge W. Douglas Baird said
in Clearwater during a hearing in the nationally
watched right-to-die case.

Bush quickly won a delay of the order from an
appeals court, postponing a legal showdown
over "Terri's Law," the measure that allowed
the governor to restore the brain-damaged
woman's feeding tube last month.

In his order, Baird made clear he was not
making a final ruling on the constitutionality of
the law, which Florida lawmakers passed after
Schiavo's husband, Michael, won court
permission to discontinue the feedings that
have kept his wife alive 13 years.

A lawyer for Bush said he hoped Baird's
comments did not signal he had made up his
mind about the law before the governor can
make his case. Legal experts said the order
was well within legal grounds, however,
steeped in long-established concerns about
the government's right to deny a person's
constitutional rights.

Terri Schiavo, 39, has been in a persistent
vegetative state since 1990 when her heart
stopped, cutting off oxygen to her brain. Her
parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, turned to
Bush and the Legislature after failing in court to
prevent their son-in-law from removing the
feeding tube Oct. 15.

On Friday, Baird reminded lawyers for the
governor that courts repeatedly have found that
Terri Schiavo did not want to be kept alive
artificially.

Rejecting Bush's effort to postpone his legal
defense of "Terri's Law," Baird said that
continued delays in fulfilling her wishes violate
her right to privacy, which includes the right to
forgo medical care.

The question of Terri Schiavo's rights stands at
the center of a lawsuit against the governor
brought by her husband, who is her legal
guardian. Bush's attorneys asked Baird last
week to throw out the complaint on procedural
grounds.

Baird refused. That decision was on appeal
Friday when lawyers for the governor argued
that they should not have to defend the
constitutionality of "Terri's Law" until those
technical matters are settled.

The judge disagreed, saying that each time
Bush puts off defending the law and keeps the
tube in, he only violates Terri Schiavo's rights
further. He ordered the governor to submit his
defense of the law by Monday afternoon.

Bush immediately turned to the 2nd District
Court of Appeal in Lakeland, which put the
case on hold indefinitely. Lawyers for the
governor argued that Baird abused his
authority by attempting to move ahead.

The governor told reporters in Boca Raton that
the case involved questions that should not be
rushed.

"I think when we're dealing with life-or-death
issues, we should be deliberative. We should
make sure that all the facts are explored," he
said. "We do it for death-row inmates.. . . And
we should do so in this case, as well."

Ken Connor, the right-to-life activist whom Bush tapped to defend Terri's
Law, did not attend the Friday hearing but said: "My hope would be that no
prejudgment has been made about this statute, and that Judge Baird will
await a briefing on both sides."

Michael Allen, a constitutional law professor at Stetson University College
of Law, said that in cases such as Schiavo's there is a presumption that
the state is violating someone's rights, and the burden is on the state to
prove otherwise.

By ordering Bush to submit arguments, Baird is simply asking the
governor to do what the law requires, Allen said.

Attorneys for Michael Schiavo, who are working with the American Civil
Liberties Union of Florida, have argued that Bush is playing a delaying
game designed to mask that he has no valid legal arguments for why the
law should be upheld.

"I think the governor has pushed the courts here to the point of
exasperation," said Howard Simon, ACLU of Florida's executive director.

Bush's attorneys argue that the governor was not properly served with the
lawsuit and it was improperly filed in Pinellas County. He wants to move
the case to Tallahassee, where the law was passed.

Allen said that such arguments are part of any normal civil case but that
delays would suit Bush, Terri Schiavo's parents and other supporters who
hope to keep the woman alive.

"It's not a 100 percent correct analogy, but if you're appealing a death-row
case, each day a decision is delayed you are successful. If you're arguing
it's a bad thing to remove the feeding tube, then each day the tube stays in
is a success," he said.

Terri's Law also required that an independent, court-appointed guardian
review Terri Schiavo's case, and evaluate her ability to be rehabilitated.
Schiavo's parents and their doctors have insisted she can be helped by
therapy, despite findings by other doctors and a judge that she cannot
recover.

Allen said Bush might be trying to put off any court decision until the
guardian, University of South Florida Professor Jay Wolfson, makes his
report, giving him more ammunition to keep her alive should the law be
found unconstitutional.

The Associated Press contributed to this report. Jennifer Pelz of the South
Florida Sun-Sentinel also contributed. Sean Mussenden can be reached at
smussenden@orlandosentinel.com or 407-650-6361.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/state/orl-asecschiavo15111503nov15,1,5543091.story?coll=orl-news-headlines

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I thought these lyrics of Keith Green (a Christian singer) fit quite well here....(hope nobody minds my posting this):

No One Believes In Me Anymore

Oh, my job keeps getting easier, as time keeps slipping away,
I can imitate your brightest light and make your night look just like day,
I put some truth in every lie, to tickle itching ears,
You know I'm drawing people just like flies, cause they like what they hear,
I'm gaining power by the hour, they're falling by the score,
You know, it's getting very simple now cause no one believe in me anymore.

Oh, heaven's just a state of mind, my books read on your shelf,
And have you heard that God is dead, I made that one up myself,
They dabble in magic spells, the get their fortunes read,
You know they heard the truth, but turned away and followed me instead,
I used to have to sneak around, but now they just open their doors,
You know, no ones watching for my tricks because no one believes in me anymore.

Everyone likes a winner, with my help, you're guaranteed to win,
And hey man, you're ain't no sinner, you've got the truth within,
And as your life slips by you believe the lie that you did it on your own,
But don't worry, I'll be there to help you share our dark eternal home.

Oh, my job keeps getting easier, as day slips into day,
The magazines, the newspapers, print every word I say,
This world is just my spinning top, it's all like childs-play,
You know, I dream that it will never stop, but I know it's not that way,
Still my work goes on and on, always stronger than before,
I'm gonna make it dark before the dawn since no one believes in me anymore,
Well now I used to have to sneak around, but now they just open their doors,
You know, no one watches for my tricks since no one believes in me anymore,
Well I'm gaining power by the hour, they're falling by the score,
You know, it's getting very easy now since no one believes in me anymore,
No one believes in me anymore, no one believe in me anymore.

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