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Fossils Bridge Gap in African Mammal Evolution
Reuters to My Yahoo! ^ | Wed Dec 3, 2003 | Patricia Reaney

Posted on 12/03/2003 4:53:26 PM PST by Pharmboy

LONDON (Reuters) - Fossils discovered in Ethiopia's highlands are a missing piece in the puzzle of how African mammals evolved, a team of international scientists said on Wednesday.

Little is known about what happened to mammals between 24 million to 32 million years ago, when Africa and Arabia were still joined together in a single continent.

But the remains of ancestors of modern-day elephants and other animals, unearthed by the team of U.S. and Ethiopian scientists 27 million years on, provide some answers.

"We show that some of these very primitive forms continue to live through the missing years, and then during that period as well, some new forms evolved -- these would be the ancestors of modern elephants," said Dr John Kappelman, who headed the team.

The find included several types of proboscideans, distant relatives of elephants, and fossils from the arsinoithere, a rhinoceros-like creature that had two huge bony horns on its snout and was about 7 feet high at the shoulder.

"It continues to amaze me that we don't have more from this interval of time. We are talking about an enormous continent," said Kappelman, who is based at the University of Texas at Austin.

Scientists had thought arsinoithere had disappeared much earlier but the discovery showed it managed to survive through the missing years. The fossils from the new species found in Ethiopia are the largest, and at 27 million years old, the youngest discovered so far.

"If this animal was still alive today it would be the central attraction at the zoo," Tab Rasmussen, a paleontologist at Washington University in St Louis, Missouri who worked on the project, said in a statement.

Many of the major fossil finds in Ethiopia are from the Rift Valley. But Kappelman and colleagues in the United States and at Ethiopia's National Science Foundation (news - web sites) and Addis Ababa University concentrated on a different area in the northwestern part of the country.

Using high-resolution satellite images to scour a remote area where others had not looked before, his team found the remains in sedimentary rocks about 6,600 feet above sea level.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: africa; archaeology; crevolist; evolution; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; links; mammals; multiregionalism; neandertal
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To: DeepDish
Did you notice how close it came to the highway.

You are joking, right? Please say yes.

181 posted on 12/04/2003 8:27:07 AM PST by Shryke
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To: Hunble
I, myself, am a theistic evolutionist. I find God's universe a whole lot more compelling by studying it than I do sitting slack-jawed and mumbling, "God just did it that way."

I know we are God's children, but I have this feeling God wants us to grow up and quit acting like children (much like earthly parents do). While some of us are mature enough to begin exploring the universe, there are still a few who revert to infantilism when confronted with reality.

The meek shall inherit the Earth. This is what God promised. However, He failed to mention everything else will go to the bold.

182 posted on 12/04/2003 8:32:08 AM PST by Junior ("Brillig and the Slithy Toves" would be a great name for a band.)
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To: cyborg
However, the study of evolution is dominated by people who do not believe a person can be scientific and even believe in God at all.

Despite what you see in college professors, this is not correct. God-fearing evolutionists are in the majority.

183 posted on 12/04/2003 8:34:07 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Junior
The meek shall inherit the Earth. This is what God promised. However, He failed to mention everything else will go to the bold.

Sounds like a good tag line...

184 posted on 12/04/2003 8:43:07 AM PST by null and void (The meek shall inherit the Earth. The Stars belong to the bold.)
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To: Modernman; All
I'm not speaking for creationists, intelligent design movement or anything else. I do not believe in the theory of evolution, and that I share any common ancestry with a monkey. That's all I am saying.
185 posted on 12/04/2003 8:44:13 AM PST by cyborg (mutt-american)
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To: Pharmboy
"Ooooooookay...there was the Piltdown Hoax, and then there was...your turn! Name another..."

Ah but you miss the point.

The point is not that there have been hoaxers......

The point is that the vast preponderance of people in this field are easily taken in, whether by very crude hoaxes or by sloppy "science."

The follow-on to Piltdown is Hesperopithecus, in which a dim-witted goofball named Osborne, who ran the presigious Museum of Natural History in New York, lifted a pig's tooth to the light and testified in rapturous tones that it was obviously a hominid fossil. From this hogstooth was construed a whole industry of hogwash, including "scholarly" papers, touring lectures and reconstructions. This from the "best and brightest" paleontologists in the world.

And there is more.... I would continue with, uh, so much to choose from, how about with Ramapithecus?
.....But I have to get to work, with all my fellow yahoos, so I'll let y'all figure that one out.

186 posted on 12/04/2003 8:45:44 AM PST by cookcounty
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To: <1/1,000,000th%; All
I agree with you. However, the people at the forefront of the movement are avowed atheists such as Stephen Jay Gould, who I believe died recently. I can also say that many of the people at the forefront of the ID movement are faithful christians but some people who believe them are intolerant fundies. I am not a bible thumper telling people to believe in God and creation or die. What I am saying is that so far there is nothing in evolution that has impressed me to the point that I will stop believe in God and that God created me.
187 posted on 12/04/2003 8:49:42 AM PST by cyborg (mutt-american)
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To: Tares
Without some empirical evidence that empirical evidence is the best standard for judging facts, the scientific standard rests on belief and nothing more. At least belief in scripture is internally self consistent.

Empirical proof of the essential identity of Creationism and PostModern-Deconstructionism. Both deny the validity of scientific inquiry and use beliefs as the standard of objectivity.

Belief in which scripture is internally self-consistent? How does one choose which scripture to believe? (Consulting a haruspex would internally consistent by this definition of consistent.

To see the usefulness of empirical evidence, one should study the consequences of the contrapositive.

188 posted on 12/04/2003 8:50:22 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Tares
What empirical proof can you provide that empirical proof is the only acceptable standard for testing the validity of various postulated facts?

Well, logically, a theory or idea (whether creationism or evolution or craterism) must be able to stand up to independent criticism. Anyone is free to hold whatever personal belief they want. However, for those beliefs to have any meaning to other people, they must be able to survive criticism.

At least belief in scripture is internally self consistent.

Using Bible verses to prove the validity of other Bible verses is not a legitimate debating tactic. If you want to prove that the events mentioned in the Bible are true, you have to provide independent proof. Otherwise, it's just a question of faith, not fact.

You can't even claim that much for stand alone science if you can't provide empirical proof that empirical proof is valid.

Creationists want a double standard in this debate- Creationism only needs to be internally consistent with the Bible, while evolution needs to provide hard evidence that survives peer review. You can't have it both ways- either Creation must be subject to independent peer review or evolution need only be internally consistent. Under peer review, creationism loses. Unless, of course, you can provide me independent proof of the existence of Noah's Ark.

189 posted on 12/04/2003 8:50:29 AM PST by Modernman (I am Evil Homer, I am Evil Homer....)
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To: cyborg
I do not believe in the theory of evolution, and that I share any common ancestry with a monkey. That's all I am saying.

That's certainly your right. However, if you're going to make such an assertion, you have to back it up with evidence as to why you don't believe in evolution.

190 posted on 12/04/2003 8:52:23 AM PST by Modernman (I am Evil Homer, I am Evil Homer....)
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To: cyborg
Parting shot.

"I'm not speaking for creationists, intelligent design movement or anything else. I do not believe in the theory of evolution, and that I share any common ancestry with a monkey. That's all I am saying.'

My sentiments exactly, Cy. We should start a new movement and call it "ITSETT" = "It's Still To Early To Tell."

191 posted on 12/04/2003 8:54:58 AM PST by cookcounty
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To: cookcounty
I mean "ISTETT". I ran spell-checker, what could have gone wrong?
192 posted on 12/04/2003 8:57:19 AM PST by cookcounty
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To: cyborg
Please remember what this debate is all about:

The evolution of life forms over time.

OR

The sudden and spontaneous generation of new life forms.

Subsection 1: All life forms were created at at single moment in time and no alterations are possible.

Subsection 2: New life forms are constantly being created as others die out.

So far, I have not seen a single example of a new life form being spontaneously created.

If you have a valid example of such an even, I would be very interested in viewing the evidence.

193 posted on 12/04/2003 8:58:31 AM PST by Hunble
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To: Modernman
When conclusive evidence is presented to me that we call came from godless evolution, then I'll present mine.
194 posted on 12/04/2003 9:00:31 AM PST by cyborg (mutt-american)
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To: cyborg
When conclusive evidence is presented to me that we call came from godless evolution, then I'll present mine.

That's kind of passive-aggressive. If you're not a creationist and you don't believe in evolution, that doesn't really leave any theory for where we came from.

What would you consider to be conclusive evidence?

195 posted on 12/04/2003 9:19:55 AM PST by Modernman (I am Evil Homer, I am Evil Homer....)
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To: Modernman
There is no doubt that many "BONES" are stored all over this earth, except for those transitionial skeletons -evolving from the "ape" to the "modern" Man. There should be billions of skeletons, all in tact showing that transition. YET THERE IS NOT ONE FULL SKELETAL REMAINS.

If they existed you "E's" would make sure that one was planted at every county courthouse, instead of using artwork.

They should be a dime a dozen.

Now even in the transitional "theory" there should be plenty of co-mingling of the "apes" and "humans". Yet we "humans" lock many "apes" up in zoos and steer clear of those yet in the wild. Talk about a need for revenge, if what the "E's" claim to be true those "apes" might catch up with their relatives.






196 posted on 12/04/2003 9:23:11 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: cyborg
What I am saying is that so far there is nothing in evolution that has impressed me to the point that I will stop believe in God and that God created me.

It's true Gould was a hard-core atheist. But like you said, he died and all his earthly problems have been solved.

However, all that's needed to bring down evolutionary biology is a billion year old human fossil.

197 posted on 12/04/2003 9:23:22 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Empirical proof of the essential identity of Creationism and PostModern-Deconstructionism. Both deny the validity of scientific inquiry and use beliefs as the standard of objectivity.

And how is belief in objectivity any more objective? Can you demonstrate that objectivity is "objective" without resorting to belief?

Belief in which scripture is internally self-consistent?

The Old and New Testaments.

How does one choose which scripture to believe?

Innate knowledge, testimony of the Holy Spirit, track record.

(Consulting a haruspex would internally consistent by this definition of consistent.

Only haruspexs who made no mistakes in their predictions are candidates for internal consistentency.

To see the usefulness of empirical evidence, one should study the consequences of the contrapositive.

It's not a question of the usefulness of empirical evidence. The question is whether or not it is possible to demonstrate the "objectivity" of a reliance on empirical evidence in the search for knowledge (truth, facts, etc.), and only empirical evidence, without resorting to a belief, the truth of which has no empirical evidence to support it.

198 posted on 12/04/2003 9:24:49 AM PST by Tares
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To: RightWingAtheist
Evos Gone Wild!

lol. Watch Richard Dawkins and Daniel Dennett jump off the roof and smash each other over the head with lawn chairs!

199 posted on 12/04/2003 9:25:36 AM PST by RightWingNilla
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To: Central Scrutiniser
Great screenname :)

Frank quote of the day...

There is no such thing as hell....there is only....FRANCE!

200 posted on 12/04/2003 9:28:41 AM PST by RightWingNilla
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