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Fossils Bridge Gap in African Mammal Evolution
Reuters to My Yahoo! ^ | Wed Dec 3, 2003 | Patricia Reaney

Posted on 12/03/2003 4:53:26 PM PST by Pharmboy

LONDON (Reuters) - Fossils discovered in Ethiopia's highlands are a missing piece in the puzzle of how African mammals evolved, a team of international scientists said on Wednesday.

Little is known about what happened to mammals between 24 million to 32 million years ago, when Africa and Arabia were still joined together in a single continent.

But the remains of ancestors of modern-day elephants and other animals, unearthed by the team of U.S. and Ethiopian scientists 27 million years on, provide some answers.

"We show that some of these very primitive forms continue to live through the missing years, and then during that period as well, some new forms evolved -- these would be the ancestors of modern elephants," said Dr John Kappelman, who headed the team.

The find included several types of proboscideans, distant relatives of elephants, and fossils from the arsinoithere, a rhinoceros-like creature that had two huge bony horns on its snout and was about 7 feet high at the shoulder.

"It continues to amaze me that we don't have more from this interval of time. We are talking about an enormous continent," said Kappelman, who is based at the University of Texas at Austin.

Scientists had thought arsinoithere had disappeared much earlier but the discovery showed it managed to survive through the missing years. The fossils from the new species found in Ethiopia are the largest, and at 27 million years old, the youngest discovered so far.

"If this animal was still alive today it would be the central attraction at the zoo," Tab Rasmussen, a paleontologist at Washington University in St Louis, Missouri who worked on the project, said in a statement.

Many of the major fossil finds in Ethiopia are from the Rift Valley. But Kappelman and colleagues in the United States and at Ethiopia's National Science Foundation (news - web sites) and Addis Ababa University concentrated on a different area in the northwestern part of the country.

Using high-resolution satellite images to scour a remote area where others had not looked before, his team found the remains in sedimentary rocks about 6,600 feet above sea level.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: africa; archaeology; crevolist; evolution; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; links; mammals; multiregionalism; neandertal
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To: cyborg
you seem obsessed with this idea that you, "Came from pond scum/slime/ooze." I can safely assure you, you "came from" your mother as a result of your father's, ahem, input.

What are they teaching kids these days?!
281 posted on 12/04/2003 12:14:19 PM PST by whattajoke (Neutiquam erro.)
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To: null and void
Check out Job starting in chapter 38
282 posted on 12/04/2003 12:15:57 PM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: whattajoke
I'm giving my opinion. Direct your boring sarcasm elsewhere.
283 posted on 12/04/2003 12:17:44 PM PST by cyborg (mutt-american)
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To: cyborg
Check out this slideshow:

Hubble

284 posted on 12/04/2003 12:21:08 PM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
wow thanks that was amazing!
285 posted on 12/04/2003 12:23:26 PM PST by cyborg (mutt-american)
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To: Tares
Naturalists need to demonstrate that empiricism alone is somehow more "objective" than divine revelation.

LOL. I know you won't accept this as evidence, but withing science, the older a theory, the easier it is to find consensus about its status. Such, I believe, is not the case among theologians in dealing with the historical assertions of various religions.

I am aware that truth isn't decided by vote or by consensus, but "objectivity" has little practical meaning outside its implication of consensus.

There are always factions at the cutting edge of any scientific theory, but try and find any substantive division among scientists about theories and findings that are more that 20 years old. Try and find the scientific equivalent of Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Muslims, Mormons, Adventists.

286 posted on 12/04/2003 12:23:31 PM PST by js1138
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To: Junior
I interpreted it to mean that whales and bats are related. Honestly, I didn't get "there is no God" out of the quote -- and I'm Catholic. Methinks you're one of those folks who look for offense in anything.

You could be right. However, this sentence: "Such anatomical peculiarities make no sense if the structures are uniquely engineered and unrelated." sure sounds like an attempt to make an argument against intelligent design.
287 posted on 12/04/2003 12:25:47 PM PST by bluejay
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To: Junior
There are none so blind as those who will not see.

One of the least convincing performances I've seen.

288 posted on 12/04/2003 12:30:24 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: js1138
I interpret it to mean that it is more likely that the structural similarities are the result of common descent than the result of being minted from scratch.

Well, yes. This is exactly what I think it means.

The ultimate cause isn't mentioned or inplied.

This is the part where we disagree. I think the implication is clear - the authors of the book are making an argument against intelligent design. It is hard to believe that they would make an argument against divine creation and imply nothing else.
289 posted on 12/04/2003 12:31:58 PM PST by bluejay
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To: Tares
You still have to empirically demonstrate that other observers exist, otherwise you're rooted in something other than empiricism.

So, if other observers do not exist (even though you can see, smell or hear them), everything is simply a figment of your imagination and the point is moot -- the universe is whatever YOU think it is (which has greater theological implications than the theory of evolution even approaches).

Basically, you either have to accept the reality of other observers, or conclude that reality is simply a figment of your imagination and that your time might be better spent doing something other than conjuring such a complicated fantasy.

290 posted on 12/04/2003 12:33:20 PM PST by Junior ("Brillig and the Slithy Toves" would be a great name for a band.)
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To: Modernman
What other kind of evidence is there?

Divine revelation.

As mentioned earlier, evidence needs to be of a character that allows more than one person to perceive it. Otherwise, it's completely irrelevant.

Your point earlier that I can't prove the existence of anyone else is true. However, unless we agree on the premise that we all exist, all discussions are completely irrelevant.

And that premise is taken on faith and a desire for relevancy. Which means the ability of others to perceive and verify the empirical evidence you rely on is also based on faith. How, at root, is naturalism not based on faith?

291 posted on 12/04/2003 12:34:51 PM PST by Tares
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To: Tares
You are universalizing the particular, a logical fallacy. The best you can say is you've never seen them change. To assert they never change is an article of the naturalistic faith.

An interesting observation. Naturalists do assume that natural laws nev3r change, but they most definitely don't believe they never change. In fact the day to day practice of science continually puts this assumption to the test.

That is the fundamental difference between science and religion. Nature continously challenges us to put it to the test. Religion commands us not to put it to the test.

This is the clearest and cleanest distinction that can be made, whether a belief system can be put to the test.

292 posted on 12/04/2003 12:40:19 PM PST by js1138
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To: Piltdown_Woman
some did take the Cardiff Giant as proof of gigantism

I thought it was a hoax to convince you that somewhere there was someone who was, ah ... man enough for you.

293 posted on 12/04/2003 12:45:22 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Everything good that I have done, I have done at the command of my voices.)
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To: Junior
Note that the Creationism-PostModernDeconstructionism philosophy seems to imply operational solipsism (not to mention solecism.)
294 posted on 12/04/2003 12:50:05 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: bluejay
However, this sentence: "Such anatomical peculiarities make no sense if the structures are uniquely engineered and unrelated." sure sounds like an attempt to make an argument against intelligent design.

You are correct. However the major proponents of intelligent design, including ALL of its best known proponents (Behe, et. al.), repeatedly assure us that intelligent design is completely devoid of religious implications.

so what's your point?

295 posted on 12/04/2003 12:52:17 PM PST by js1138
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To: cyborg
I'm giving my opinion.

"I didn't come from pond scum is more than just an opinion; you should give yourself more credit. It's a fact.

Direct your boring sarcasm elsewhere.

Point taken and I apologize, as you are not a "regular" here and deserved better.
296 posted on 12/04/2003 12:55:24 PM PST by whattajoke (Neutiquam erro.)
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To: whattajoke
Thanks... no I am not a regular in evolution threads, but I appreciate the sentiment
297 posted on 12/04/2003 12:58:19 PM PST by cyborg (mutt-american)
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To: bluejay
What does intelligent design have to do with divine creation. All of the people who are in court trying to get intelligent design into the school curriculum say it has no religious implications.

Are all of these people liars?

I thought intelligent design was one of several competing scientific theories, in which case it is entirely appropriate for a science test book to present the consensus view. There are thousands of scientific theories presented in textbooks as the current view, contrasting them with older views. Intelligent design was the dominant scientific consensus in 1805, the date of the movie "Master and Commander", but it hasn't been the dominant view for the past 140 years.

298 posted on 12/04/2003 12:58:27 PM PST by js1138
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To: js1138
I am aware that truth isn't decided by vote or by consensus, but "objectivity" has little practical meaning outside its implication of consensus.

There are always factions at the cutting edge of any scientific theory, but try and find any substantive division among scientists about theories and findings that are more that 20 years old.

Issac Newton's theory of motion was the consensus for about 200 years, yet the consenus now is that the basis of his theory was 180 degrees dead wrong. Why consider any current theory any more "objective" than the one it replaced? Science has lots of consensus for short periods of time, theology has little consensus, but each group is generally consistent for long periods of time, especially when compared to science. I find I must object to the use of the word "objective" in connection with both camps. Nonetheless, the truth is out there. Pray for wisdom.

299 posted on 12/04/2003 12:58:53 PM PST by Tares
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To: js1138
You are correct. However the major proponents of intelligent design, including ALL of its best known proponents (Behe, et. al.), repeatedly assure us that intelligent design is completely devoid of religious implications.

This is a new one to me. I suppose it is possible to argue that intelligent design does not imply a Supreme Being, but then you would have to believe that life on Earth was created by little green men (perhaps from Mars). I am not familiar with Behe, or his friends. As far as I knew the best-known proponent of intelligent design is the Bible.
300 posted on 12/04/2003 12:59:24 PM PST by bluejay
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