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Time Trip - questions and answers (How widely accepted is the theory that we can travel in time?)
BBC ^ | Friday, December 26, 2003 | BBC

Posted on 12/25/2003 8:12:15 PM PST by Momaw Nadon

The Future
According to Professor Paul Davies "Scientists have no doubt whatever that it is possible to build a time machine to visit the future". Since the publication of Einstein’s Special Theory of Relativity in 1905, few, if any, scientists would dispute that time travel to the future is perfectly possible.

According to this theory, time runs slower for a moving person than for someone who is stationary. This has been proven by experiments using very accurate atomic clocks. In theory, a traveller on a super high-speed rocket ship could fly far out into the Universe and then come back to Earth at a time hundreds or thousands of years in its future.

Another consequence of special relativity is that gravity slows time down. So, another way of time travelling to the future would be to go and sit next to a black hole or a neutron star, both of which are very massive and have huge gravitational fields. When you went back to Earth, it would have aged more than you.

The Past
Time travel to the past is more problematic, but there is nothing in the known laws of physics to prevent it. It is accepted that if you could travel faster than light, you could travel to the past. However, it is impossible to accelerate anything to a speed faster than light because you would need an infinite amount of energy.

But hope for prospective time travellers comes from Einstein’s General Theory of Relativity, considered to be the best theory of time and space that we have.

In 1948 Kurt Gödel worked with general relativity to produce equations suggesting the possibility of time travel to the past. He showed that a rotating universe, consistent with Einstein’s theory, would allow you travel back in time. Gödel knew that his model was unlike the real universe we inhabit and also that even if we did live in such a universe, time travel would be practically unachievable because you would need a hugely powerful rocket in which to cover astronomical distances. Despite this, Gödel’s work was firm evidence that time travel to the past is, at least in theory, possible.

Since then, numerous other scientists have come up with other solutions of general relativity that allow time travel to the past. Most rely on the prediction of the existence of 'closed time-like curves'. According to these scientists, there are ways of distorting space-time to make it curved in such a way that shortcuts through space-time exist allowing you to effectively travel faster than light and journey back into the past.

Not all scientists like this idea and there are some scientists, like Professor Stephen Hawking, who insist that there must be something that prevents it. In 1990, Hawking proposed a Chronology Protection Conjecture which says that the laws of physics disallow time machines. Basically, such scientists argue that nature will conspire to prevent the building of a time machine - one possibility is that runaway surges in quantum energy would generate massive gravitational fields and turn any time machine into mush. There are no clear answers to the issue because quantum physics and gravity do not sit well together and there is not yet a unified theory of quantum gravity.

Hawking and others have serious problems with the fact that time travel to the past would violate causality and this would have serious implications for our understanding of how the Universe works. A final answer to whether we really can travel back in time may have to wait until scientists find a way to bring quantum mechanics and general relativity together.

What are the different possible time machines we could build?

There are now a number of different proposals for time machines that have been put forward by well-regarded physicists, for example:

Professor Frank Tipler
In 1974, Professor Frank Tipler suggested that you could use an incredibly dense, spinning cylinder that was about 100 km long and 10 km wide. The cylinder would have to be incredibly strong and rigid so that it didn’t get squashed by its own gravity and so that it didn’t get torn apart by the centrifugal forces it would experience when spinning. Tipler pointed out these were 'just' practical problems which might be overcome by sufficiently advanced technology.

To use a Tipler Time Machine, you would leave Earth in a spaceship and travel to where the cylinder was spinning in space. When you were close enough to the cylinder, where the space-time is most warped, you would orbit around it a few times and then fly back to Earth, arriving back in the past. How far back in the past would depend on how many times you went round the cylinder. During your journey, your watch would always work as normal, going forward.

Tiplers work suggested that this could be done using a spinning black hole or neutron star. There are pulsars that have been observed which are spinning at a rate fast enough. However, the mathematics is not really conclusive as to whether such stars could be used for time travel or whether we would need to pile up a few of them on top of each other to form a cylinder.

Professor Richard Gott
Professor Richard Gott has shown that Cosmic Strings could be used for time travel. Cosmic strings are predicted to exist by about half the theories attempting to unify the different forces. They would be thin strands of high density material left over from the early universe. Cosmic strings have no ends so would be infinite in an infinite universe or be closed loops in a finite one. They should have a mass of about 10 million billion tons per cm and therefore they should warp the space-time round them. Gott has shown that if you have two such strings parallel to each other and moving past each other, they would warp space-time sufficiently to allow time travel to the past.

Professor Kip Thorne
Arguably the most likely method for time travel to the past is the wormhole time machine. This was invented by Professor Kip Thorne after he was asked to look into the idea by his friend Carl Sagan who used a wormhole as a plot device in his novel Contact.

If time machines are possible, why haven’t we built one?

Although the time machines suggested by physicists are theoretically possible, all of them would require massive amounts of energy and a level of engineering technology that we don’t have at the moment, and which we are unlikely to have for quite some time.

What about the paradoxes caused by time travel, like going back and killing your grandparents?

There are several problems that suggest that time travel is not possible. One of the arguments that is most frequently put forward is the so-called 'grandmother paradox': if you travel back to the past and kill your grandmother before your mother is born, you will not be born. Therefore, you could not have travelled back to the past to kill your grandmother, therefore you would be born!

Physicists have managed to come up with solutions to this. Some have proposed the Principle of Self-consistency: you can visit the past but are physically unable to change it. So, if you tried to shoot your grandmother, the gun would jam or you would be prevented in some other way from killing her. This is well illustrated in the film Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure. This seems to go against notion of free will but philosopher David Lewis made the point that free will does not allow you to do something logically impossible, such as instantaneously turning yourself into a tomato.

Another solution is suggested by Professor David Deutsch. He says that quantum mechanics tells us that parallel universes exist. So if you travelled back to past and killed your grandmother, you would simply end up being in a parallel universe where you had killed another version of your grandmother and were a time traveller.

One of the most famous arguments against time travel is that if time travel is possible, why haven’t we been visited by lots of time travellers from the future? Again, people have come up with ways round this objection: we may be inundated with time travellers and not be aware of it. Maybe that's what UFOs are. Perhaps civilisations don’t last long enough to develop the knowledge and technology required to build a time machine. And most convincing of all, general relativity says that you can only go back to the time a time machine was created. Since no one has built a time machine yet, no one can come back to this time.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Technical; Unclassified
KEYWORDS: cosmicstrings; deutsch; fasterthanlight; finite; freewill; future; generalrelativity; godel; gott; gravity; hawking; impossible; infinite; light; mass; paradox; paralleluniverses; past; physics; possible; quantumgravity; quantummechanics; relativity; sagan; solution; space; spacetime; specialrelativity; technology; thorne; time; timemachine; timetravel; tipler; travel; universe; wormhole
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To: calljack
Tango??


61 posted on 12/25/2003 11:02:30 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Orangedog
What was the name of Pike's horse and the combo to Kirk's safe? I did not read that in any Starfleet Technical Manauals!
62 posted on 12/25/2003 11:03:39 PM PST by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus,Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: calljack
Now your turn:

What type of rays were responsible for Captain Pike's condition ?

63 posted on 12/25/2003 11:11:58 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
trick question, wasn't it a phaser coolant or engineering mishap. Or was it Bertold rays?
64 posted on 12/25/2003 11:19:48 PM PST by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus,Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: ffusco
I think it was delta rays.
65 posted on 12/25/2003 11:25:11 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Momaw Nadon
Just saw the preview of a new movie, The Butterfly Effect. In the movie Ashton Kutcher goes back in time to prevent his girlfriend from ruining her life. The flaw in the movie: if time travel existed, parents would already have gone back in time to prevent their daughters from ruining their lives by preventing them from ever meeting Ashton Kutcher (and some children would have done the same for their mothers). So the premise of the film is logically impossible.

Time travel has such facination, though, that whether or not we will in fact be able to do it, there will be a virtual reality time travel and tourism business in the future. You might indeed "wake up" in the 18th century, or back in high school or on Mars, and find that it was a trip your family bought for you. Here's hoping their check cleared for the return trip ...

66 posted on 12/25/2003 11:46:34 PM PST by x
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To: Koblenz
I have a theory about that. What if we have had time travellers from the future. And I don't mean an alien civilization. Take for a minute that all folklore and tall tales have in them a tiny grain of truth someplace within the story. Then think for a minute about mythology... A specific example (this came from a story I read once and would like to give credit to the author, so If any of you know who wrote it please let me know) A person well versed in the mythos of a certain culture could feasibly call themselves, for example, Thor...He carries a pistol, or as he refers to it a "hammer" knowing that this would likely be accepted. OK, throw in a few events where said hammer is fired BANG (flash) and its "returned" to his hand. and enemy drops dead before the warrior....legend of mjolnir is born and our time traveller has just created the very legend he is using as a cover.

Ok Im done with the sci-fi thing. Its far too late for this stuff.

Oh and as an added note, if a time traveller altered something in the past I believe we in the present would never know, It would be our known history. To us it never existed any other way
67 posted on 12/25/2003 11:55:11 PM PST by BudgieRamone (Unapologetically Male: I eat, sleep, shoot, drink, use power tools, and water my herbs & orchids :))
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To: cricket
"Maybe they don't want to 'come back'...

This being Christmas and all, I would most certainly want to go back and talk to Jesus Christ. In my mind he has allot of splainin to do. Just think of the possibilities!

68 posted on 12/26/2003 12:09:12 AM PST by Desron13
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To: Momaw Nadon
Bump

I'll read this yesterday

69 posted on 12/26/2003 12:15:57 AM PST by fso301
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To: BudgieRamone
Oh and as an added note, if a time traveller altered something in the past I believe we in the present would never know, It would be our known history. To us it
never existed any other way



Hmm.... that is the crux of the issue. Can the ALTERED past
being ALREADY PAST relative to our local space-time dimension, have any effect whatsoever on us in the present?
Would there be any effect on our present time domain, if someone went into the past and changed something?

It is ALREADY past...... is it not?
Or does the EXPIRED past STILL have the capability of influencing the ongoing present linked to the future???

70 posted on 12/26/2003 12:37:44 AM PST by birg
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To: Ichneumon
I was about to post Niven's theory on Time Travel, but I see you beat me to it.

I believe he phrased it thus (paraphrased): "If it is possible to build a time machine that allows travel into the past, and it is also possible to alter the past, then the time machine will never be invented."

I find it impossible to make a consistent argument against his logic. He's right. Eventually, someone would go back in the past and alter history in such a way that the time machine is never invented, and once that happens, it can never be altered again. We'd be "stuck" in that universe where time-travel was not technically impossible but human history had been aligned in such a way that no one ever actually discovers how to do it.

What I find most disconcerting about that is that the simplest and most probable way that an altered history could result in a future where time travel is never invented is a history where the human race, prior to reaching a level of technology where the time machine's invention is possible, is completely wiped out.

Qwinn
71 posted on 12/26/2003 2:42:57 AM PST by Qwinn
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To: Ichneumon
Something else did just occur to me though. There is one possible method of time travel that could alter the past that could still exist - in our future.

I can't quite recall where I read it, but the gist of the idea was that, when time travel was invented, it required the existence of a time machine to already exist at that point in time.

So, for example, if the time machine is invented in 2008, then future generations living in 3508 could go back in time as far as 2008. The "past" time machine already has to exist in order to provide a destination for the "future" time machine to operate on.

Not that wacky an idea. I wouldn't be surprised at all if teleportation was possible but -required- a receiver on the other side. This would be essentially the same idea.

In that scenario, one could never go back into the past "beyond" the first invention of the time machine, so one could never "undo" it's invention altogether. But that theory does generally mean that history up until this point is pretty much "written in stone".

Qwinn

72 posted on 12/26/2003 2:49:18 AM PST by Qwinn
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To: BudgieRamone
You're driving me crazy! I remember that story but I can't remember the author or title.

Arrrghhhhhhhhh!

73 posted on 12/26/2003 7:35:02 AM PST by balrog666 (Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.)
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
Trek, bah. Everyone knows Star Trek is for little girls and old ladies. If you want the best television program of all time, it would have to be "Doctor Who."

As for the whole time travel thing, all we need is a Tardis.
74 posted on 12/26/2003 7:41:30 AM PST by exile (Exile - Helen Thomas tried to lure me into her Gingerbread House.)
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To: exile
Trek, bah. Everyone knows Star Trek is for little girls and old ladies.

Well I dare you to say that to Spock... one squeeze to the neck and you're out cold lol.

If you want the best television program of all time, it would have to be "Doctor Who."

Yes I've caught that on PBS a few times; not bad but there's nothing like Kirk, Spock and Bones.

75 posted on 12/26/2003 9:44:29 AM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Momaw Nadon
Professor Richard Gott is right and has been amusing colleagues for decades with this. Seems it is possible without violating laws of physics, but it would be well to send graduate students on the time trip rather than the prof himself.
76 posted on 12/26/2003 9:48:27 AM PST by RightWhale (Close your tag lines)
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
... but there's nothing like Kirk, Spock and Bones.

I take you have yet to see "Farscape" in reruns?

And, perhaps, you didn't like "Babylon 5"? Or "Lexx"?

77 posted on 12/26/2003 10:03:49 AM PST by balrog666 (Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.)
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To: balrog666
I think it was "The Lightning Road" by Dean R. Koontz
78 posted on 12/26/2003 10:14:12 AM PST by thrcanbonly1 (Dept of Homeland Security, sponsored by the same folks who were responsible for Waco &Ruby Ridge)
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To: Drango
"I already posted this article tomorrow.

LOL and I've already read it..."

But it hasn't been written yet!

79 posted on 12/26/2003 10:15:53 AM PST by bk1000 (put him back in the spider hole)
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To: balrog666
There's a ton of good sci-fi shows, but the older ones like Star Trek and The Twilight Zone didn't have the kind of technology and gadgetry added in like they do today.

The result was to keep them interesting writers were forced to put more effort into dialogue and scripts. That's why I was not impressed with Star Trek: The Next Generation or the rest of them because so many of the plots were remakes of the original, only fancier.

80 posted on 12/26/2003 10:16:17 AM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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