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Rush Limbaugh: "Immigration Proposal Roils America"
Rush Limbaugh.Com ^ | 1-7-04 | Rush Limbaugh

Posted on 01/07/2004 3:31:00 PM PST by Matchett-PI

Rush Limbaugh Program - January 7, 2004

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT 1:07 PM ET

RUSH: Let's just get straight into this. We're not going to wade in, we're going to dive into this immigration business here, ladies and gentlemen.

[AP:] "A plan being proposed by President Bush would give legal status to foreign workers, including millions already toiling in America’s underground economy, removing the fear of deportation but not putting them on a fast track toward permanent U.S. residency. In a speech today at the White House," it will happen at 2:45 this afternoon, Eastern time, "the president will ask Congress..."

Four key words here, folks, when you talk about the politics of this. Now, I know presidents get what they want, but this one, this one's going to have some interesting battles that will take place in Congress.

"Bush will ask Congress to approve changes to immigration policy, saying that they would make the country safer by giving officials a better idea of who is crossing the border, bolster the economy by fulfilling employers' needs, and protect illegal workers rights."

Now, before you people go off half cocked out there I just want to tell you we're going to cover this from both sides of it because there are pros and cons here, and just sit tight. Don't start jumping to any conclusions about where we're headed here yet.

Just stick with me on this as I always ask you to do, because I know when you hear me say "bolster the economy by fulfilling employers' needs and so forth," wait a minute, Rush, you can't possibly believe, just sit tight, folks, I'm just setting this up here.

This is what the Associated Press is reporting today and there's an interesting story and I'm just going to take some bullet points from this story, and then there's all kinds of critics out there, and we'll delve into that too.

But the interesting thing here is that Congress is going to be very much involved in this. And let me just say at the outset here, a lot of people are concerned of negative political fallout for Bush. I don't think that's going to be the case. I don't care what happens with this.

I don't think Bush will ever pay a price for this politically, but it's possible that Republicans will for a long, long time down the road. We'll get to that in due course.

There are an estimated eight million to ten million undocumented immigrants in the U.S., perhaps half of them from Mexico. Under the Bush proposal which could smooth relations with Mexico, and I know a lot of you are saying, "Who cares?" Well, Bush does. And this proposal could also help Republicans lure Latino voters, foreign workers under this proposal, could apply for legal status for a three-year period if they had U.S. jobs. They could travel to and from the United States and possibly work in the country for additional three-year periods if approved by congress. There it is again!

Now, let's take these things one at a time. "Could apply for legal status for a three-year period" provides nothing but hope. You put the word "could" in front of this, and it's just like saying "almost."

"Could apply for legal status for a three-year period" provides nothing but hope.

It applies to only those working already or with a job promised, but it also identifies their employers who have to pay Social Security and payroll taxes. It puts them legally on the tax rolls, including local taxes, and while not granting citizenship for the first time it officially documents who they are.

And this is one of the key elements that the administration says that is important that they're interested in. Also, allowing them to work for an additional three-year period, if approved by Congress, there it is again, puts the Democrats in a position that they don't want to be in on this.

The Republicans are either going to line up behind Bush, which would be good for garnering Hispanic votes, or demand tougher restrictions, which is good for the Republican base, which is good for Bush.

The Democrats are going to have to line up with the leftist activists who are already displeased that these measures don't grant full amnesty and are shallow.

I know I'm talking about the politics of this now, but stick with me on this as I repeatedly say. It is true that a bunch of disgruntled activists out there who don't think this goes far enough. These measures ought to grant full amnesty and that these measures are shallow. La Raza not happy here, folks, not happy at all about this.

So the Democrats are going to be the ones in the position here of being forced to go all the way.

Bush is going to leave it up to the Republicans in congress to go whatever direction they want to go.

"Senior administration officials who outlined the proposal for reporters last night said the president is calling for an unspecified but reasonable increase..." you ever been involved in anything legal, folks? The word "reasonable" and this is a legal matter.

I mean it's going to become a law. The word "reasonable," my gosh, there's a different definition from that from person-to-person-to-person.

I mean, the left-wingers think "reasonable" is full amnesty. "Senior administration officials said the president is calling for an unspecified but reasonable increase in the number of green cards available to workers.

However, they said that being part of what is being called the temporary worker program would not give foreign workers any advantage to applying for green cards or permanent residency status which is the first step toward obtaining U.S. citizenship.

Again, the positioning on this would appear to be against the Democrats.

They have to argue for millions of green cards in order to satisfy their base.

The Republicans can argue for reasonable increases, whatever that is, and anything less than what the Democrats are demanding.

Any increase in the number of green cards over current figures gives the Republicans the issue." And a case in point is the quote here from Cecilia Munoz of La Raza. She says it's extremely disappointing. She's vice president for policy, the National Council of La Raza and Hispanic immigrant advocacy group.

I mean, you would think that this bunch would be doing cartwheels today. I mean, if this proposal is as it's been portrayed to be - that we're going to be flooded with all these illegals and undocumented, say okay you're here forget about it fine welcome to America here's your tax I.D. number you'd think La Raza would be happy as hell about this but they say no, no, no, they say this is extremely disappointing.

Here is Cecilia Munoz. "It's a serious backtracking to where the president was two years ago when the administration was prepared to provide some kind of path to legal status. They're proposing to invite people to be guest workers without providing any meaningful opportunity to remain in the U.S. to become legal permanent residents. It appears to be all about rewarding employers who have been hiring undocumented immigrants while offering almost nothing to the workers themselves."

And along those lines I got a little story here from the AP today: Green Card Holders Among Critics of Bush Plan. Well, what's this? Wait a minute here! The story is from El Paso. "Juan Muniz crosses the border from his native Mexico, his green card in hand every day to work in an El Paso department store. His hours can be cut. Now he worries that a proposal by President Bush to make it easier for foreign nationals to work in the U.S. will mean more competition for already scarce jobs."

Wait just a minute. I thought these jobs were going unfulfilled! I thought there were gazillions of these jobs waiting out there waiting to be filled that Americans wouldn't do and now this guy with a green card is now all concerned about increased competition? Why, how can this be?

Muniz's wife Guadalupe said, "We just want one job that pays well." She said this Tuesday night as the couple returned to Juarez Mexico just across the Rio Grande river from El Paso. I mean, the administration said that these jobs are going unfulfilled, but here you've got a green card holder who is agreeing with La Raza in essence saying, "Hey this is no big deal for me, all I want is my one job, just want to go there and then go home, but now I've got to have all this competition with all these other people."

Back to Cecilia Munoz. She said that "under current immigration law, foreigners who have violated U.S. laws, including entering the country illegally, can be banned from reentry for three years to life." They said that under current immigration law, foreigners who have violated U.S. laws, including entering the country illegally can be banned from reentry for three years to life.

The White House was unclear whether it wants to wave that law for illegal immigrants who participate in the temporary worker program.

Cecilia Munoz of La Raza also argued there are only 5,000 green cards a year available for unskilled workers. The wait to get one is about 15 years.

Congress would have to increase the number of green cards by hundreds of thousands to accommodate the millions of immigrants in the country illegally who would want to work.

So her point is that this is much ado about nothing.

That, and you could say, okay, does offer a lot of hope, but not much more.

If there are 5,000 green cards a year, and you're going to, I mean, they're not going to be expanded that much, the Democrats are going to be demanding that everybody who wants one get one.

The Republicans are saying, no, we're going to have a reasonable increase in the number of green cards, so it's going to be somewhere between 5,000 and 12 million, but whatever it is, it's not enough to satisfy the wacko leftists who are going to be out there taking more wacko extreme, if you ask me, now, just the politics of this, and I know, just sit tight, folks, I can feel the tension, I know you people are bursting to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. Just sit tight.

You'll get your chance, if you dare take it. But I'm telling you the politics of this is that the president is getting a big to-do out of a lot of hope, while the Democrats are going to be positioned here to say, "This is nothing, it doesn't go far enough," all in an effort to get some of the Latino vote, some of the Hispanic vote.

And there is this business of employment. However, there's some interesting stuff that I have found about this, and there may not be all that many jobs that Americans won't do, according to some people who have written extensively about it today.

COMMERCIAL BREAK

I don't want you people out there, see, this is the problem here. See, I have empathy. I know that you people out there shouting, you're throwing things at the radio you're getting mad you're thinking that I'm becoming a sycophant partisan and so forth, and I'm urging you here just to hang tough and I don't want you to think that I'm bought off by what this La Raza babe is saying.

This is all about politics at this stage right now.

Anybody who thinks it isn't needs to reawaken here, and probably more so on the Democrat side once this all shakes out than it is with Bush but it's still political there, as almost everything in the Bush domestic agenda has been.

I don't want you to think here that just because this left-wing special interest group La Raza happens to criticize Bush, that I think, a-ha, Bush is doing something great, because this is a Democrat group, this is a group that has long been in partnership with the Democrats and there's nothing that's going to change that.

I think they're just positioning themselves politically here.

They too are juggling balls in the air, everybody on this is juggling balls trying to wait to see which one they need to catch and hold onto.

And there's more of two of them in the air. I think La Raza probably actually likes what Bush is doing and they will push for more because that's what special interest groups do.

I've always told you people, no matter what you give the left it's never enough. You can give them everything they want and it's never enough. You can let Ted Kennedy write the education bill and it's never enough. You can give them the biggest, greatest federal spending in the history of the world, and it's not enough.

And this is not going to be enough, either, and that's one of the political trap doors I think that exists here for the Democrats.

La Raza is going to push for more because that's what special interest groups do, but they're not going to give Bush any credit in this even this if they like what he's doing because of their long participate ship with the Democrats.

Just like yesterday we talked about there finally appears to be some movement particularly among educated blacks, African-Americans on the Republican side. You're not going to see Jesse Jackson credit Bush for improving the lives or the Republicans or conservatives of improving the economic fortunes of black America it's not going to happen, even though they like it, it's not going to happen, they're going to say Bush hasn't done enough.

It's the same thing here with this La Raza bunch.

Now, interesting piece by Al Knight today in the Denver Post and he's entitled this piece Amnesty by Another Name. Let me just read you a few short paragraphs here of his piece.

Says it's not good news that President Bush has invited immigration advocacy groups to the White House today, to listen to his proposal to welcome millions of new foreign workers to the United States.

Now, his piece here says that most of the foreign workers are from Mexico, but AP piece says that only half of them are, and will be.

That's what I mean about this being in a state of flux, and about there being a lot of things here that we really don't know.

The timing of the event is especially unfortunate writes Al Knight. Bush is scheduled to visit Mexican president Vicente Fox next week and apparently wants to bring along a belated Christmas president.

The Mexican leader has been whining for years the U.S. hasn't done enough to provide employment opportunities for Mexican citizens. Well, screw him.

What about his own country providing jobs for his own citizens? What is the responsibility that we have for this? I mean, for crying out loud, we got enough people in this country who think the government's job is to provide work for them.

What is this business that the Mexican president thinks that it's our job to do that for his own citizens, too? Tom Ridge, the secretary of homeland security, recently behind the administration was interested in providing some sort of legal status for the millions of illegal aliens, mostly Mexican, who are already in this country. Public opinion polls have repeatedly shown that most Americans do not favor amnesty programs that are properly labeled.

Bush is apparently intent upon offering some kind of amnesty proposal hidden in a guest worker program. Now, the AP story doesn't say that there's anything hidden here. I mean it offers maybe some hope for this, but it's a lot of work involved to secure it.

Al Knight, Denver Post again, says it won't work, any worker program that accepts applications from those currently in this country illegally is likely to unite the opposition especially in an election year.

It's also true that immigration groups will adamantly oppose any program that didn't accept such applications. And Michelle Malkin today, she is just, I mean somebody get a cage, she is raging, and it's good, she's got her piece is entitled "The Criminal Raid on Social Security." And before I read you the whole thing here, let me just give you her last line, "What's next? Survivor's benefits for the families of the September 11th hijackers?"

END TRANSCRIPT

(Excerpt) Read more at rushlimbaugh.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: aliens; deport; deportnow; illegalaliens; illegalimmigrants; immigrantlist; immigration; rushlimbaugh
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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Read the Articles Rush talked about:

(Denver Post: Amnesty by another name) http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1002,36%7E148%7E,00.html (WT: Michelle Malkin: The criminal raid on Social Security) http://www.jewishworldreview.com/michelle/malkin1.asp (AP: Bush proposal would alter immigration policy) http://www.rgj.com/news/stories/html/2004/01/06/60909.php?sp1=rgj&sp2=News&sp3=Local+News&sp5=RGJ.com&sp6=news&sp7=local_news (AP: Green card holders among critics of Bush plan) http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/2340402

Listen to Rush... (…discuss both sides of the immigration issue, the pros and cons) (…explain why the administration is positioning themselves politically on the issue)

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_010704/content/the_big_theory.guest.html

1 posted on 01/07/2004 3:31:00 PM PST by Matchett-PI
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To: All
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2 posted on 01/07/2004 3:31:58 PM PST by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: ConservativeMan55; oldglory; Luke FReeman; sheikdetailfeather; MinuteGal
((((PING))))
3 posted on 01/07/2004 3:32:55 PM PST by Matchett-PI (Why do America's enemies desperately want DemocRATS back in power?)
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To: Matchett-PI

Silly Conservatives! Taxes, laws and rules are for chumps!

4 posted on 01/07/2004 3:35:24 PM PST by KantianBurke (Don't Tread on Me)
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To: Matchett-PI
Thanks for the ping!
5 posted on 01/07/2004 3:42:02 PM PST by ConservativeMan55 (You know how those liberals are. Two's Company but three is a fundraiser.)
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To: Lando Lincoln; Ben Hecks; dix; tubebender; Don Carlos; oprahstheantichrist; nutmeg; cyborg; ...
      Rush Ping!

Freepmail me if you would like on/off the Rush Pinglist!

Search for the latest Rush Limbaugh news on Free Republic.

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6 posted on 01/07/2004 3:43:07 PM PST by ConservativeMan55 (You know how those liberals are. Two's Company but three is a fundraiser.)
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To: Matchett-PI
Okay glad to hear from Rush. And I will have to reread this again because my anger wouldn't let his points get across to me yet.
I am glad tho that I have a new prospective to think about, I usually agree with Rush. Thanks for posting this.
7 posted on 01/07/2004 3:46:44 PM PST by stopem
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To: stopem

This debate is curious one.  However, I am stuck in the middle. I grew up on the south side of Chicago in a deeply Hispanic neighborhood, where I was the minority (blond haired blue eyed, now graying though). Several restaurants close to my house didn't even have an English speaking person in them, I had to point to an item on the menu for what I wanted (the seafood soup was unbelievably good).

What I observed is that most of the people in my neighborhood were honorable, hard working, and dedicated to their families. They loved their adopted home (America) and they loved Mexico. But, they hated their corrupt government (a hundred times more corrupt then here) and knew that only poverty and despair awaits them in their country of birth. They escaped to America to provide a better life for themselves in spite loving their home country.

In spite of what other posters claim, they would not willing play host to terrorists anymore then the average American. They do not deserve to be flung back across the border by catapults. Borders do not need to mined, thus blowing up families trying to escape poverty. For most of us, it is just quirk of fate that we were born in America and a little compassionate conservatism is called for.

I truly do not know all the answers to this problem and believe that there is no easy solution. So, with every thing being said, even with the reasoned debate on this thread, I have seen no real solutions discussed or debated.

My rant about everyone over-blowing the immigration issue out of proportion!

  1. The total number of immigrants per year (including illegal and refugees) is somewhat less than it was in the peak years at the start of the 20th century, when the US population was less half as large its current population. The rate of immigration relative to the population is low rather than high. Immigration as a proportion of population is about a third of what is was in the peak years in the early part of the 20th century..
  2. In the early part to of the 20th century (1910-1920) the major debate in politics was that immigrants form southern Europe were going to destroy this country.  Those sneaky "I"talians and the dirty Irishman would bring this country to ruination. It seems the hatred has shifted to immigrants from Mexico?
  3. The U.S. government has forecast a shortage of 20 million workers by 2026 due to the aging baby boom and job growth.  Under the conditions that we now confront, we should be very carefully focused on the contribution which skilled people from abroad, (as well as) unskilled people from abroad, can contribute to this country, as they have for generation after generation.
  4. By the year 2050 according to Census projections racial and ethnic minorities will outnumber non-Hispanic whites. In the next fifty years this demographic shift will transform politics and business.  If us conservatives  lose the Hispanic vote, then we lose the nation.
  5. In the last decade hi tech professional immigrants have made extraordinary contributions to cutting edge US industries. It is estimated that almost one quarter of Silicon valley firms were established by immigrants. 
  6. Businesses founded by immigrants are a source of substantial economic and fiscal gain for U.S. citizens. Ten high-tech firms founded by immigrants (Intel, Sun Microsystems, Computer Associates, Solectron Lam Research, LSI Logic, AST Computer, Wang Laboratories, Amtel, Gupta Technologies, and Cypress Semiconductor) generated $32 billion in revenues in 2002. These and other businesses started by immigrants add at least another $29 billion to the total amount of taxes paid by immigrants.
  7. Immigrant entrepreneurs have revitalized neighborhood; from Dominicans in Manhattan's Washington Heights to Cubans in Miami's Little Havana, Hispanic immigrants have transformed their communities into thriving economically dynamic strongholds.  Of particular note is the resurgence of small business, which thirty years ago was in decay. Several researchers have suggested that immigration has encouraged the entrepreneurial drive of the total population, significantly contributing to this transformation.
  8. The average education of new immigrants has been increasing with each successive generation. The proportion of adult immigrants with 8 or fewer years of education has been decreasing and the proportion of adult immigrants with 16 years or more has been increasing. The proportion of immigrants with bachelor 's or postgraduate degrees is much higher than the proportion of the native labor force.
  9. Illegal aliens contribute about as much to the public coffers in taxes as they receive in benefits. New data suggests the undocumented pay about 46 percent as much in taxes as do natives, but use about 45 percent as much in services. A poll of the most respected economists found a consensus that both legal and illegal immigrants are beneficial economically.  However overall immigrants fare well in terms of income with adult, foreign-born, naturalized citizens actually have higher adjusted gross incomes (averaging $40,502) than families with U.S.-born citizens only ($35,249).  There goes the low wage myth.
  10. Most immigrants arrive in the United States in the prime of their working years. More than 70 percent of immigrants are over the age of 18 when they arrive in the United States. That means there are roughly 17.5 million immigrants in the United States today whose education and upbringing were paid for by the citizens of the sending country, not American taxpayers. The windfall to the United States of obtaining this human capital at no expense to American taxpayers is roughly $1.43 trillion. This makes immigrants a fiscal bargain for our country.

8 posted on 01/07/2004 3:49:23 PM PST by BushCountry (To the last, I will grapple with Democrats. For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at Liberals.)
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To: ConservativeMan55
The first time Rush has yapped anything about illegals.

Question..how do you remove 8 million illegals (without hiring 8 million more govt employees raising your taxes) or having a forced movement of persons that would make the Nazi trains to the concentration camps look like Thomas the tank engine!
9 posted on 01/07/2004 3:49:29 PM PST by kaktuskid
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To: Matchett-PI
Loved the irony of Rush's hysterical ranting that these people did something illegal and they should be deported. They broke the law he bemoaned, deport them.
10 posted on 01/07/2004 3:51:53 PM PST by OldFriend (Always understand, even if you remain among the few)
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To: Matchett-PI
bump
11 posted on 01/07/2004 3:52:56 PM PST by Lady Eileen
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To: kaktuskid
I have been making your point all day. Most have tried to discuss the problem, which I admit is serious, but refuse to address the issue of rounding up millions of people and putting them in camps awaiting due process and deportation.
12 posted on 01/07/2004 3:53:56 PM PST by OldFriend (Always understand, even if you remain among the few)
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To: kaktuskid
Answer: by making it unworth their trouble to stay here. they'll leave of their own accord.

See Iron Eagle's suggestions here.

13 posted on 01/07/2004 4:01:07 PM PST by Sloth ("I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" -- Jacobim Mugatu, 'Zoolander')
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To: BushCountry
I agree with many of your points. However, I strongly suggest you immediately don your asbestos pyjamas.
14 posted on 01/07/2004 4:01:31 PM PST by Restorer
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To: OldFriend
We could just send them all back easily. Who cares what anyone else thinks about it. They broke our laws and that's the only reason they are over here in the first place. We should deport every single one who came here illegally and not ever allow them back. Let the ones who obey our laws come here to work. I'm sick of everyone being so PC they can't just accept a fairly simple decision. They aren't Americans and I am getting disgusted with the lies that come our about how hard it would be to solve this problem.
15 posted on 01/07/2004 4:02:06 PM PST by Conservative_Nationalist (http://www.stopimmigrationnow.org/)
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To: Matchett-PI
Well, I'm not persuaded by Rush's argument. In the first place, the last amnesty--under Ronald Reagan--did not solve the illegal immigrant problem. It just encouraged MORE illegal immigrants to come in, in the hope that they too would be legalized by the stroke of a pen. So, I agree that it's hard to deal with 6 million illegals, but you won't solve the problem by legalizing them. You'll just end up with 6 million legalized and maybe 12 million more illegals.

In the second place, sure, La Raza is screaming that this is a bad idea. It doesn't go far enough and it's being proposed by Bush, which automatically makes it bad. But why is that an argument for doing it? The Republicans are constantly passing half-way measures for blacks, workers, women, hispanics. By doing so, they simply make the extremists more angry than ever, and get very little credit. To simplify, the Democrats offer everyone in the country a hundred dollars. Then the Republicans say, "Oh, no, that's irresponsible. We'll give everyone in the country $50." NOT A WINNING STRATEGY.
16 posted on 01/07/2004 4:06:01 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Conservative_Nationalist
Round them up and put them in camps or just deport everyone who barely speaks english?

Pack them a lunch for the trip?

Should we bother with due process?

How about a camp in your town?

Do we provide them with medical care while they are in our custody?

17 posted on 01/07/2004 4:07:39 PM PST by OldFriend (Always understand, even if you remain among the few)
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To: OldFriend
Bush again will have the Dems boxed in on this one..He is great at this! Look at the Dean thing..why would any major party go so far outside the box...They no longer have a choice! ONLY THE FRINGE IS GETTING EXCITED ABOUT THEM!
18 posted on 01/07/2004 4:12:54 PM PST by Republic Rocker
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To: Matchett-PI
I can see it now. Former illegals sue to recoup back- social security benefits and income taxes from times when they were working in the US illegally.
19 posted on 01/07/2004 4:13:16 PM PST by Rockitz (After all these years, it's still rocket science.)
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To: Sloth
I believe placing a bounty on illegals would provide an incentive for them to return to where they came from. Just my humble opinion. Feel free to flame away.
20 posted on 01/07/2004 4:13:28 PM PST by ex-Texan
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To: Matchett-PI
If free trade is so great, why isn't free immigration. If all the US jobs are being sent to India shouldn't we be permitted to go work in India?
21 posted on 01/07/2004 4:16:01 PM PST by msu2
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To: OldFriend
Round them up and put them in camps or just deport everyone who barely speaks english?

That's a good place to start.

Pack them a lunch for the trip?

No, we watered and fed them coming in.

Should we bother with due process?

No, by default, they are here ILLEGALLY.

How about a camp in your town?

I'll section off an acre as long as they promise a fast turn around, gotta keep it moving. I'm sure you'll find more taker's.

Do we provide them with medical care while they are in our custody?

Humane treatment, yes. Medical Care, only for bullet wound's while in our custody.

Probably not the answer's you were hoping for, but certainly the ones you were fishing for. Blackbird.

22 posted on 01/07/2004 4:22:55 PM PST by BlackbirdSST
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To: kaktuskid; OldFriend
" Question..how do you remove 8 million illegals (without hiring 8 million more govt employees raising your taxes) or having a forced movement of persons that would make the Nazi trains to the concentration camps look like Thomas the tank engine!"

When I have asked that question in earlier discussions-the responses that I have gotten from posters have been , "snipers on the border that shoot to kill," "public hangings of illegals on Main Street,to send a message to Mexico," etc,etc. It appears impossible to try and have a frank discussion about how to deal with problem of illegal immigrants,without the usual mindless sloganeering. President Bush made a proposal,he didn't make a law today.I watched the speech when I got home from work tonight and I don't think anything he proposed, is worthy of the hysteria from some on the right.Guess I am a calm conservative and will wait to see what kind of law Congress hashes out-if any.
23 posted on 01/07/2004 4:22:57 PM PST by Wild Irish Rogue
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To: Wild Irish Rogue
I'm ashamed to be reading some of the hate spewed on this website.

I know Jim Robinson has done his best to keep the immigration threads from imploding and I thank him for that.

24 posted on 01/07/2004 4:25:31 PM PST by OldFriend (Always understand, even if you remain among the few)
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To: Cicero
HERE is the only thing Rush said I agree with:

The Mexican leader has been whining for years the U.S. hasn't done enough to provide employment opportunities for Mexican citizens. Well, screw him. What about his own country providing jobs for his own citizens? What is the responsibility that we have for this? I mean, for crying out loud, we got enough people in this country who think the government's job is to provide work for them. What is this business that the Mexican president thinks that it's our job to do that for his own citizens, too?

25 posted on 01/07/2004 4:26:35 PM PST by Indie
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To: BushCountry
"In the early part to of the 20th century (1910-1920) the major debate in politics was that immigrants form southern Europe were going to destroy this country. Those sneaky "I"talians and the dirty Irishman would bring this country to ruination. It seems the hatred has shifted to immigrants from Mexico?"

Those sneaky Italians and dirty Irishmen came to this country legally and openly. This debate is about granting people who've broken laws a blanket amnesty for doing so. Although I agree with many other of your points, this is about illegal and unlawful aliens.......NOT immigration as defined and allowed by law.

If Clinton had proposed this, my guess is you would be screaming treason until your larnyx bled. But a Republican makes it ok????

26 posted on 01/07/2004 4:27:16 PM PST by Dazedcat
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To: BushCountry
My rant about everyone over-blowing the immigration issue out of proportion!..Get on the clue bus you've missed your stop.
27 posted on 01/07/2004 4:28:08 PM PST by Zipporah (Write inTancredo in 2004 Primary)
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To: Matchett-PI
President Bush can say "Hasta Lavista" to my vote baby!
If I vote for anyone during the Presidential election, Im writing Tom Tancredo in on my ballot!
 
At least he doesnt kiss Vicentes butt...

28 posted on 01/07/2004 4:28:53 PM PST by Dr. Marten ("My affections are first for my own country,and then, generally, for all mankind" ~Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Rockitz
"I can see it now. Former illegals sue to recoup back- social security benefits and income taxes from times when they were working in the US illegally."

They are already trying to work this out between the governments so that it is possible. My question is, if they are suing to gain lost monies paid into SS when they were working in the US illegally, how do US citizens get back the money they lost paying out for the tax burden placed on them by these same illegal aliens?
29 posted on 01/07/2004 4:31:49 PM PST by Dr. Marten ("My affections are first for my own country,and then, generally, for all mankind" ~Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Matchett-PI
I hope GW hasn't triangulated wrong on this one.

The line about "jobs Americans won't fill", while arguably true, won't resonate very well with an electorate with 1mil less jobs than when GW took office.
30 posted on 01/07/2004 4:31:58 PM PST by mikenola
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To: Republic Rocker
Bush again will have the Dems boxed in on this one..He is great at this!

Yeah. Strategery. Just like campaign finance reform. < /sarcasm>

31 posted on 01/07/2004 4:32:22 PM PST by Kevin Curry
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To: BushCountry
What part of ILLEGAL don't you understand?
Most folks here don't have any problems with LEGAL immigrants. You know: the ones who wait their turn and jump through the INS hoops?
It is the ILLEGAL part we object to, and the President is proposing to reward a CRIMINAL act.
32 posted on 01/07/2004 4:33:50 PM PST by Little Ray (Why settle for a Lesser Evil? Cthuhlu for President!)
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To: Wild Irish Rogue
Good post. Yet the proposal, and the eventual law forthcoming from this proposal, will be a danger to this country, will help nobody but people who are not citizens (Where in the Constitution is this requirement to help illegal immigrants?), will destroy the Republican party and its tentative hold on power, will further divide a country which is getting further divided every day, and put further tax strain on the middle class people of this country. (The workers providing tax income argument is BS.)
In short: Maybe not today, but later...you can kiss it all goodbye. Not because of this, but it is a large nail in our coffin.
33 posted on 01/07/2004 4:34:38 PM PST by Indie (Hopefully I made a valid argument void of hate speech)
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To: BushCountry
Sorry. I am a WASP, who's roots in this country have been followed back to about 1700.


I'm sick and tired of not being able to understand someone behind a counter somewhere. Every day, I see the government bending over backwards to placate all sorts of people of color, many miscreants and malfeasors. Meanwhile, I see more and more just regular folks standing in unemployment lines, interestingly enough, most of those folks have a very good command of the English language.

This whole initiative can be summed up with four words:
California, Texas, Election, Hispanics.

Actually, now, a fifth word comes to mind:
Brown-nosing
34 posted on 01/07/2004 4:34:49 PM PST by djf
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To: *immigrant_list; A Navy Vet; Lion Den Dan; Free the USA; Libertarianize the GOP; madfly; B4Ranch; ..
ping
35 posted on 01/07/2004 4:35:53 PM PST by gubamyster
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To: Wild Irish Rogue
It is too bad people are posting those things. I know they don't mean them, but lurkers may not. I am just undecided about this until I understand it better, but offhand, I am not so sure I like it. I too will just wait and see what the real deal is. Reading the transcript makes it not seem as all encompassing as one would think reading the threads.
36 posted on 01/07/2004 4:40:49 PM PST by ladyinred (W/04)
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To: ConservativeMan55
Rus is on a roll!
37 posted on 01/07/2004 4:47:13 PM PST by blackie
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To: Wild Irish Rogue
The first step is to secure the border so that the deporations aren't just bailing the ocean.

Then the normal process of apprehending and deporting those in the country illegally can actually take hold, when those doing the work don't have to deport the same person twice a month all year long.

I saw the American Border Patrol video with the Brasilian border intruders, I found it rather distressing that when they reported the group, the first US Border Patrol team essentially blew them off - "we're too busy to bother with arresting illegal immigrants caught in the act of sneaking into the US."

Sounds like there needs to be a shake-up in that realm too.
38 posted on 01/07/2004 4:49:28 PM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: Matchett-PI
Rush the lightning rod and great diffuser
39 posted on 01/07/2004 4:50:00 PM PST by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: Matchett-PI
What happens to the companies that are suddenly required to furnish documentation that they have a job for the folks who now want the new work permit? Wouldn't the fact that your company suddenly has numerous requests for work permits become a red flag implying that you had been paying "undocumented" folks for awhile? Any tax, civil or criminal liability there on the part of the company? Were it my business, I'd be inclined to tell the undocumented folks to go home until I knew the company was protected.
40 posted on 01/07/2004 5:02:45 PM PST by ProfoundMan (The owl flies far for a candy bar.)
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To: BushCountry
Two points that are in complete error, let me help by correcting them one by one... By the year 2050 according to Census projections racial and ethnic minorities will outnumber non-Hispanic whites. In the next fifty years this demographic shift will transform politics and business. If us conservatives lose the Hispanic vote, then we lose the nation.

Legal immigrants, of whom Hispanic voters are part of, hate illegal aliens. Everyone keeps forgetting that California, the Hispanic capitol of the United States, has outlawed (though it was overturned) all services for illegal aliens, outlawed teaching in Spanish in the schools, etc. Who do you think voted for these things in our overwhelming Democrat state? That's right, the Hispanics. Exit polls indicated that most of those who voted against were non-Hispanic whites. So no matter how many times people try to scream it, this pony just don't do that trick - pandering to illegal aliens drives away the legal immigrant vote.

Illegal aliens contribute about as much to the public coffers in taxes as they receive in benefits. New data suggests the undocumented pay about 46 percent as much in taxes as do natives, but use about 45 percent as much in services. A poll of the most respected economists found a consensus that both legal and illegal immigrants are beneficial economically. However overall immigrants fare well in terms of income with adult, foreign-born, naturalized citizens actually have higher adjusted gross incomes (averaging $40,502) than families with U.S.-born citizens only ($35,249). There goes the low wage myth.

You're mixing two things. Legal immigrants do well, they are trying to make a future here. Illegal immigrants don't, they're trying to get money to send back home, or to temporarily support their family. Millions of illegals did not apply during the last amnesty period, precisely because they are Mexicans (or Canadians) and don't want to be Americans. Beyond, the bull of the tax to services -- Go to any community which has a large illegal population. Go to a store. Get stuff, and tell the clerk you won't pay tax. They won't bat an eye, just hit the no tax key. Go to swap meets, no tax. I've had people come into my store and tell me that they won't pay sales tax, and I tell them to go another state that doesn't have it.

Beyond, illegals drive down property values through overcrowding and a higher incidence of petty crimes, the Spanish only signs and stores also continue to drive down the property values. This cuts into the tax income.

No payroll taxes, no income taxes, no property taxes.

The study was a complete fiction created by the liberals.

Now, that being said, this worker program sounds fine -- So long as the borders are shut down and the illegals are kicked out once their temporary card expires. They apply for their temporary card and send their families back to Mexico. Bush will have my complete support at that point.. But I sincerely doubt that will happen. Because some wacko who claims to be a conservative will say that you're killing the Hispanic vote and we need them.. It's about time that they start listening to the Hispanic voters and get rid of these illegals.
41 posted on 01/07/2004 5:03:42 PM PST by kingu
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To: djf
California, Texas, Election, Hispanics.....and a bankrupt SS system along with bankrupting every other "free government service" these folks will flock to like leeches, whether they need them financially or not. It truly stinks. And I am truly disgusted. Every migrant who became a citizen hates this. I know plenty and they are all cussing this proposal and are astounded "their" President Bush (Yep they are...or were Republican Catholics) would stoop this low for purely POLITICAL reasons. It's scandalous, traitorous and grounds for tar and feathering.
42 posted on 01/07/2004 5:42:44 PM PST by Indie (Hopefully my vocabulary was void of hate speech and spurious flames)
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To: kingu
You said it better than I except I believe the drain on the system compared to the income to the government is and will continue to be more like 3:1 (no I can't back it up with a source) thanks to crime, drains on the system, and everything else you said.
Very good post for the most part.
43 posted on 01/07/2004 5:45:45 PM PST by Indie (Hopefully my vocabulary was void of hate speech and spurious flames)
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To: Dr. Marten
And that will be a vote for the democrat candidate. But hey who cares about that. You made your point. Then the UN will dictate our foreign policy. Our tax cuts gone, the list will go on. But go ahead get so mad about this issue and vote democrat. There are to many with this kind of logic that it scares me. Terrorists are praying to Allah that Bush loses.
44 posted on 01/07/2004 6:02:35 PM PST by GodBlessUSA
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To: Sloth
>Answer: by making it unworth their trouble to stay here. >they'll leave of their own accord.

You seem to be clueless to the level of poverty in some of these third world countries, Mexico included. You'd have to make it pretty darn bad here to get worse than where they come from.

45 posted on 01/07/2004 6:05:40 PM PST by sunryse
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To: Matchett-PI
Its all politics and hopefully the most offensive parts of it will go nowhere.
46 posted on 01/07/2004 6:09:32 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Matchett-PI
approve changes to immigration policy, saying that they would make the country safer by giving officials a better idea of who is crossing the border
Oh, sure. Those Al Queda operatives will rush to register. After all, legal Americans get a discount on those virgins...

And this proposal could also help Republicans lure Latino voters
But... "According to the Pew Center's National Survey of the Latino Electorate, 49 percent of registered Latino voters identified themselves as Democrats, while only 20 percent said they were Republican." So this may or may not help a little in the next election. After that it's pimping for Hillary, plain and simple.

"Juan Muniz crosses the border from his native Mexico, his green card in hand every day to work in an El Paso department store. His hours can be cut. Now he worries that a proposal by President Bush to make it easier for foreign nationals to work in the U.S. will mean more competition for already scarce jobs."
Well, irony... He knows best what message will be sent to the wanna be illegals?

Public opinion polls have repeatedly shown that most Americans do not favor amnesty programs that are properly labeled. Bush is apparently intent upon offering some kind of amnesty proposal hidden in a guest worker program.
There is straight talk and there is gay talk. Guess which one makes me sick. US will never solve Mexico's problems. The opposite is even less likely. Well, I'm thinking about taking my family out for dinner on November 2.
47 posted on 01/07/2004 6:14:42 PM PST by singsong (Jesus the Saviour!)
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To: Indie
>What about his own country providing jobs for his own >citizens?

ABSOLUTELY!!!

48 posted on 01/07/2004 6:15:01 PM PST by sunryse
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To: Indie
Calm and cool,I like it! I went to www.whitehouse.gov and reread the text of the speech. This part caught my attention the first go round and more so,the second time.

" Providing Incentives for Return to Home Country: The program will require the return of temporary workers to their home country after their period of work has concluded. The legal status granted by this program would last three years, be renewable, and would have an end"

Isn't this de facto deportation ? Maybe with a velvet glove,but,they still must go home-only difference is that now we have them in a database. The renewable part is unclear-maybe another 3 years,but,it won't be endless. But,bottom line is that you may work 3 years and then you have to leave. Allowing workers picking lettuce or cleaning toilets at the Ramada,3 years to work and save their money and then go home with a nest egg,doesn't seem unreasonable to me. The end goal is the same-illegals go home.
49 posted on 01/07/2004 6:18:59 PM PST by Wild Irish Rogue
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To: b4its2late; Recovering_Democrat; Alissa; Pan_Yans Wife; LADY J; mathluv; browardchad; cardinal4; ...

50 posted on 01/07/2004 6:24:39 PM PST by Born Conservative ("Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names" - John F. Kennedy)
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