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Moore Trouble: Alabama's former chief justice may challenge Bush for the religious vote
Opinion Journal ^ | 02/02/04 | John Fund

Posted on 02/01/2004 9:09:57 PM PST by Pokey78

Edited on 04/23/2004 12:06:26 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

A big threat to President Bush's re-election could come if his conservative base chooses not to turn out and vote in large numbers this fall. That's one reason he told a congressional Republican retreat on Saturday that he supports spending caps on the exploding federal budget. But the president could also still face a challenge from a social conservative running as a third-party candidate.


(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Alabama
KEYWORDS: 2004; christianvote; constitutionparty; gwb2004; johnfund; nutcase; religiousvote; roymoore; thirdparty
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To: Pokey78
I agreed with Pryor and wouldn't vote for Moore.
51 posted on 02/02/2004 9:19:31 AM PST by k2blader (Folks who deny the President's proposal is an amnesty are being intellectually dishonest.)
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To: Jotmo
"Many will not give a hoot about the consequences."

That is why they are fringe lunatics.

52 posted on 02/02/2004 9:20:24 AM PST by verity
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To: StonyBurk
Moore is an extremely polarizing figure. There are those who think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread, and those who think his feet of clay are highly visible.

There's enough of the former to dent Bush's vote total, and enough of the latter that he'll never ever be president.

53 posted on 02/02/2004 9:23:52 AM PST by jimt
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To: Don Joe
I am open to suggestions.
54 posted on 02/02/2004 11:32:39 AM PST by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: Pokey78
But Roy Moore, the ousted Alabama Supreme Court justice who made headlines last year by refusing to remove a Ten Commandments monument he placed on public property, could make a difference in a close race. And just last week, he refused to rule out a presidential candidacy.

That's pretty interesting, don't you think?

55 posted on 02/02/2004 11:35:25 AM PST by Cathryn Crawford (¿Podemos ahora sonreír?)
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To: Jotmo
Yep damn right

The President should have considered HIS consequences before he started out on his Democrat Lite agenda

I'm tired of seeing our values and our concerns go unanswered year after year and election after election. No more

The Republican Party has a simple solution to a growing problem.

Start cutting government, start acting like what they PROFESS they are, and I'm sure the conservatives will once again support them.

Until then, not a chance.
56 posted on 02/02/2004 11:39:39 AM PST by Leatherneck_MT (Good night Chesty, wherever you may be.)
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To: StonyBurk
Moore can do more as a governor and a senator. He would have a wide open field in 2008.

We need to bury the democrat party so they are not a force to oppose the way they are now.

Get rid of the democrat party then it is only a question of where to put the monument not if.
57 posted on 02/02/2004 11:40:53 AM PST by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: Cathryn Crawford
A lot of people feel that Judge Moore's exquisite sense of timing and good judgement will lead him to decline this opportunity.

I'm not so confident.

58 posted on 02/02/2004 11:43:48 AM PST by Scenic Sounds (Sí, estamos libres sonreír otra vez - ahora y siempre.)
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To: Scenic Sounds
A lot of people feel that Judge Moore's exquisite sense of timing and good judgement will lead him to decline this opportunity.

I'm not so confident.

I don't know why you aren't confident, Scenic. You should have every reason to be. I certianly am.

59 posted on 02/02/2004 11:45:29 AM PST by Cathryn Crawford (¿Podemos ahora sonreír?)
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To: Cathryn Crawford
Moore would be an excellence person to get out the vote if he had a cause to rally people.

60 posted on 02/02/2004 12:01:18 PM PST by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: lelio
Matthew 6:5-6 "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen."

In context, that Scripture refers to excessive displays of public piety, in order to look holy in front of others. I don't believe that God is offended by those who wish to pray in His name before meals (mostly done in public), games or commencement addresses.

61 posted on 02/02/2004 12:09:30 PM PST by Zack Nguyen
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To: OneTimeLurker; Howlin; B4Ranch
Wonder if he would pick Trancadero (sp?) as his running mate?

If he accepted it would only confirm that he and his koolaid drinking followers want nothing more than to see GWB defeated this November.

62 posted on 02/02/2004 12:37:41 PM PST by ClintonBeGone (<a href="http://www.freerepublic.com/~clintonbegone/">Hero</font></a>)
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To: MissAmericanPie
He for sure has a political future. I would like to see him governor of Alabama, then President.

You sound like the type of voter that thought Alan Keyes was a principled candidate.

63 posted on 02/02/2004 12:42:41 PM PST by ClintonBeGone (<a href="http://www.freerepublic.com/~clintonbegone/">Hero</font></a>)
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To: CyberAnt
However, Christian children are prevented from prayer anywhere, anytime.

Really? My understanding was that schools are not allowed to lead prayers, but that a student who wishes to pray on his own is fine. How does the school enforce this?
64 posted on 02/02/2004 12:48:09 PM PST by Stone Mountain
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To: Stone Mountain
I don't know .. it's not happening at my school .. however I have read many accounts of parents who are outraged because a GROUP OF STUDENTS (not teacher led) choose to join hands and pray, and they are told they cannot do that on school property.
65 posted on 02/02/2004 1:34:56 PM PST by CyberAnt ("America is the GREATEST NATION on the face of the earth")
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To: jimt
Well .. a refining of my point! Thank you!
66 posted on 02/02/2004 1:41:28 PM PST by CyberAnt ("America is the GREATEST NATION on the face of the earth")
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To: CyberAnt
I don't know .. it's not happening at my school .. however I have read many accounts of parents who are outraged because a GROUP OF STUDENTS (not teacher led) choose to join hands and pray, and they are told they cannot do that on school property.

I don't think that's legal if it's before or after school, or during lunch. It's certainly not moral. The parents should talk to a lawyer - or the ACLU ! If they want to live up to their name, this should be an ideal case for them to take up.

67 posted on 02/02/2004 2:01:53 PM PST by jimt
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To: CajunConservative
Had you bothered to read my FReep page, you would have found out I understand GOD is with me everywhere.

However, that is NOT the issue. The issue is: other religions are being allowed to be practiced on school grounds, but the Christian is forbidden to practice his religion at school (or anywhere else for that matter). Also, other religions are allowed to show symbols of their faith, but a child cannot even go to school wearing a CROSS. This is "selective discrimination" and I really am getting mad about it.
68 posted on 02/02/2004 2:41:59 PM PST by CyberAnt ("America is the GREATEST NATION on the face of the earth")
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To: Pokey78
RUN ROY RUN!

I would be glad to vote for a man that actually believes in more than the latest public opinion poll!

Of course the RINO's running the republician party will try to subvert the Judge and turn him into a get-along, go along, any way the wind blows, Repub.

I hope he stays strong in his beliefs.

69 posted on 02/02/2004 2:49:52 PM PST by Walkin Man
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To: Pokey78
To paraphrase a movie I enjoy:
He needs to seek professional help, and not a Psychologist, but a Psychiatrist, cuz hes gonna need drugs...
70 posted on 02/02/2004 2:53:55 PM PST by BlueNgold (Feed the Tree .....)
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To: Walkin Man
ex-Justice Moore has every right to try to forward his views. But in this case running for membership of his church board would be more approriate to the policies he favors...
71 posted on 02/02/2004 2:56:19 PM PST by BlueNgold (Feed the Tree .....)
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To: Leatherneck_MT
"The President should have considered HIS consequences before he started out on his Democrat Lite agenda. I'm tired of seeing our values and our concerns go unanswered year after year and election after election. No more. The Republican Party has a simple solution to a growing problem. Start cutting government, start acting like what they PROFESS they are, and I'm sure the conservatives will once again support them. Until then, not a chance."

Well said! Conservative BTTT

72 posted on 02/02/2004 2:58:30 PM PST by Godebert
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To: onyx
Vote for Moore and get a free rock in every public building.
73 posted on 02/02/2004 2:59:51 PM PST by Hillary's Lovely Legs (Bush has won two wars, Kerry is French......'nuff said)
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To: CyberAnt
I KNOW what the issue is and I agree with you. I am not saying we don't need to stand up but I stated that the thought that came to mind when I read your post was that we need to be sure that we teach our children who are Christians that even though the muslims "need their own room to pray" and go through all the silly rituals they do, it is really an exercise in futility on their part. Think about it. As Christians they can strip away every place to publicly pray, but they can't stop our prayers. I wasn't saying you don't personally teach your children that they can't pray. There is a difference. We still have the power to pray. That was the point.

Even if we can't utter one word out loud, we as Christians can still pray wherever we are, because the God we are praying to hears our prayers :o) Look at all the Christians in persecuted areas. God still hears their prayers, still sees their sacrifices, still sees their worship, etc...

74 posted on 02/02/2004 3:08:05 PM PST by CajunConservative
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To: CajunConservative
I know I already replied to your message, but I have something to add.

I don't believe there is such a thing as "silent" prayer. Prayer is SPEAKING YOUR FAITH. If you can't speak .....?? And .. people need to realize that the devil is well aware that it requires your voice to activate your faith; why else would the liberals want you silent ..??

It's fine with me if nobody in the world agrees with me .. this is just what I believe.
75 posted on 02/02/2004 3:46:35 PM PST by CyberAnt ("America is the GREATEST NATION on the face of the earth")
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To: CyberAnt
However, Christian children are prevented from prayer anywhere, anytime.

That's just not true.

Christian children at our public school have "Meet me at the Pole" day where they gather by the flagpole to pray before school. They have a Bible study club, and when we had recess, a group of them would gather in one corner of the commons area to pray and sing a hymn.

As long as it's student organized and voluntary, it's perfectly fine.

76 posted on 02/02/2004 3:49:34 PM PST by Amelia
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To: ClintonBeGone
You sound like the kind that thinks Bush lays gold bricks.
77 posted on 02/02/2004 4:04:08 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: Jotmo
Many conservatives are just aching to vote FOR someone because they want to, not because they feel they have no choice. Many will not give a hoot about the consequences.

It is precisely because we do care about the consequences, that we would like to have someone to rally around, rather than simply not vote for important offices. And it has to be kept in mind, that sometimes great results take many much smaller steps to bring to fruition. Let us remember that Wallace leaving the Democratic Party in 1968--even though he returned 4 years later--set the stage for the "Reagan Democrats"--mostly the former Wallace supporters--who made the difference 12 years later.

This was the reverse of the LaFollet movement in 1924, which though it did not defeat Coolidge, helped fan an independence in Republican ranks, which led to later defections to Roosevelt's New Deal, which made the Democrats the majority party for the next generation.

If a Conservative Third Party, regardless of the effect on the election (which could go either way, as it would draw from both parties) could get over 10% of the vote, it would establish a base either for the creation of new, growing force, for others to coalesce with; or provide a reason for the political hacks in both parties to start thinking of those of us on the right as the dominant swing vote, as opposed to the present practice of both the Democrats and the "Me Too" Republicans, of endlessly fighting over self-styled "victim" groups.

Of course, the President could still head off the whole thing, by returning to the priorities he indicated--i.e. strict construction, and his religious principles--in the last campaign; at least he did, at this time of the year, before the South Carolina Primary.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

78 posted on 02/02/2004 4:23:58 PM PST by Ohioan
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To: Pokey78
Us on the religious right need to think long and hard before doing something as stupid as voting for a 'Judge' Moore or any other 3rd party 'Simon the Sourcerer' and costing Bush the election. If Christian conservatives end up putting us through 4 years of the cultural rot, corruption, judicial fiat, and weakened nat'l security of a Democrat administration, why on earth should the Republican Party ever do anything for Christian conservatives again?

If a group is going to stab the GOP in the back every time they don't get 101% of what they want, the GOP is going to do what is has to do to survive. It will go socially left while staying fiscally right(or slightly more moderate), which freezes out the Dems for good. That is the demographic mix with the biggest reach, and most likely to produce a long-lasting political dynasty. So then the social conservatives are frozen out to perpetual 3rd-party status, with no influence. Say hello to President Giuliani, and goodbye to any chance of repealing Roe V. Wade in our lifetimes.

Stupidity can end up bringing permanent negative societal changes and loss of influence.
79 posted on 02/02/2004 4:26:06 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: ClintonBeGone
You sound like the type of voter that thought Alan Keyes was a principled candidate.

And your point is what? Alan Keyes certainly seemed a principled candidate to me, and I voted for him 4 years ago in our Ohio Primary. He is still taking the same stands, despite the fact that there would be great inducements for him to compromise them. That sounds pretty principled to me. He certainly looks better each day, in comparison with most of the inside the Beltway Republicans in high offices.

No, he only got a small vote, because people accepted the assurances that Governor Bush was offering at the time, that his heart was really with us--that he was a strict constructionist and a religious man, who would do his duty. Well--

William Flax

80 posted on 02/02/2004 4:30:02 PM PST by Ohioan
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To: CyberAnt
I don't believe there is such a thing as "silent" prayer. Prayer is SPEAKING YOUR FAITH. If you can't speak .....?? And .. people need to realize that the devil is well aware that it requires your voice to activate your faith; why else would the liberals want you silent ..??

At times yes it is, but there is a whole group of people who can't speak. Does that mean that their faith is not real? I journal my prayers, I don't always speak them out loud, but God hears my prayers and answers them. The Holy Spirit is the one who intercedes when we don't have the words to say.

81 posted on 02/02/2004 4:30:19 PM PST by CajunConservative
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To: Diddle E. Squat
If a group is going to stab the GOP in the back every time they don't get 101% of what they want,

Do you really believe that we owe a greater duty to the party than to the Country; a greater loyalty to the party, than to our sacred oaths to uphold the Constitution (see the President's record on Medicare, Education, post-war Iraq, AIDS in Africa, etc.); a greater duty to the party, than to the continuity of the American people (immigration control); a greater duty to the party, than to the moral principles that have governed Western peoples in all the basically good and sound decisions they have made over the centuries (for example, the President's forcing Ashcroft to back down and let the Justice Department's militants mock Western morality with Gay Pride weeks, etc.)?

Take a deep breath, and start to put things in proportion. The party can do a lot of good; it has lately been doing a lot of bad. If we cannot arrest the bad within, we must do what we can to deal with it without. That is our duty to America. Live with it!

William Flax

82 posted on 02/02/2004 4:40:36 PM PST by Ohioan
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To: Ohioan
Blah, blah, blah, self-righteous blah.

You and others can make all kind of idealistic pronouncements about how 'pure' you are, and how the rest of us are heathens or socialist sellouts, but it all comes down to the basic facts of politics: It is about coalitions and compromise. The winners never get everything they want, and you can't get power to implement your goals without winning.

Voting for Bush is hardly selling out, but costing him the election will almost certainly freeze the social conservatives out of power for at least a generation, and thus kill any chance of achieving our most important goals.
83 posted on 02/02/2004 4:50:49 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Ohioan
That was a pretty blunt and harsh reply I just made, but I've completely lost patience with conservatives threatening their own political suicide and to take everyone else down with them.
84 posted on 02/02/2004 4:57:59 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: PhilipFreneau
>>Let's not forget the scriptures in which Jesus describes the hypocricy of Pharisees who want to be seen praying in public in order to gain the approval of men.<<

There is little danger of getting approval of men for praying in public in this modern-day version of Sodom and Gomorrah.

HA! Clever response.

But I don't think Jesus was talking about getting approval from prostitutes and perverts by praying in public.

He was talking about an appearance of self-righteousness that would cause people to see one as "good" or "holy".

85 posted on 02/02/2004 5:11:50 PM PST by Jorge
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To: CajunConservative
Well .. you're entitled to believe what you choose.

Peter said, "we believe, therefore we speak". Since I believe GOD ultimately wrote that, I allow people to argue it out with GOD.

If GOD chooses to make exceptions for people who for some physical reason cannot speak .. He is soverign and can do that.

If you choose to write your prayers and you believe they will be answered anyway .. that's your choice. I've never been led by GOD to do that. Although I do write things down, I always VOICE them outloud to GOD as well.
86 posted on 02/02/2004 5:15:52 PM PST by CyberAnt ("America is the GREATEST NATION on the face of the earth")
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To: All
There is something about Moore that has always smelled. After losing his fight over and over, he should have complied and moved the monument. He had made his point and continuing to disobey was only making his stand look foolish.

Now if he is stupid enough to do something like this, it shows that he is not out for anything but his own selfish gratification. Moore and his followers need to stop being like the Deaniacs and lay off the .

87 posted on 02/02/2004 5:20:36 PM PST by COEXERJ145
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
Vote for Bush and continue to get what you've always got.

Nothing
88 posted on 02/02/2004 5:52:37 PM PST by Leatherneck_MT (Good night Chesty, wherever you may be.)
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To: CyberAnt
If you choose to write your prayers and you believe they will be answered anyway .. that's your choice. I've never been led by GOD to do that. Although I do write things down, I always VOICE them outloud to GOD as well.

That isn't the only way I pray, it is one of the ways I pray. I believe that God hears and answers prayers given from the heart in earnest, not just those we voice out loud. It is limiting God to say that we HAVE to voice our prayers in order to be heard.

89 posted on 02/02/2004 6:00:11 PM PST by CajunConservative
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To: Leatherneck_MT
Vote for your freakshow and get Kerry.

90 posted on 02/02/2004 6:04:56 PM PST by Hillary's Lovely Legs (Bush has won two wars, Kerry is French......'nuff said)
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To: verity
That is why they are fringe lunatics.

I would not classify them as such.

I have MUCH sympathy for their desire to vote FOR someone who you can believe in and support with , if not your hole heart, a good portion of it. Rather, they have to ignore their feeling and do what will give the best of two bad outcomes.

I feel that way myself.

I haven't been pushed so far that I plan, at this point, not to vote for Bush. But I'm close enough that I can well understand the feeling of those that wont vote for him.

Sometimes gridlock look mighty good.

Were it not for the WOT, I'm not sure I'd still be in the bush camp.

I just can't say what I'd do.

91 posted on 02/02/2004 6:34:55 PM PST by Jotmo ("Voon", said the mattress.)
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To: CajunConservative
I never said "we have to voice our prayers to be heard". I said that speaking our prayers is what activates OUR FAITH .. not GOD's ability to hear.

GOD is a faith GOD. "And GOD said" and the world was. That's in Genesis. From the beginning GOD has been showing us how to activate our faith .. we need to speak what we believe.

Speaking to GOD .. is prayer!
92 posted on 02/02/2004 7:12:02 PM PST by CyberAnt ("America is the GREATEST NATION on the face of the earth")
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To: Pokey78
Points:
- IMO, Moore isn't serious about running this year, just in shaking up Karl Rove and the Bushies with the possibility that he might. This is a useful thing to do, based on the drift of the past couple of months.
- The people who are doing the "it's all about him" meme just don't get it. As Coulter pointed out in a recent, Moore was targeted by the Southern Povery Law Center from Day 1. Then when he fights back he's the aggressor--GMAFB.
- Moore will probably conclude (and should) that the AL governorship is the way to go. After either 3 or 7 years, he can go for the 2008 or 2012 GOP nomination and be every bit as influential and successful as Reagan was. I don't think he would be too old--he appears to be mid-50s now, since he graduated from law school in 1977. He needs a TRACK RECORD of accomplishment (and in working with minorities) to be a serious player in the Presidential race..
- The people going after Pryor for his involvement in the Moore case should realize we have much more important things to do than take out someone who is on our side.

How about this for a dream matchup?--Moore vs. Hillary.
93 posted on 02/03/2004 12:47:10 AM PST by litany_of_lies
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To: litany_of_lies
IMO, Moore isn't serious about running this year, just in shaking up Karl Rove and the Bushies with the possibility that he might.

Yeah Rove and us "bushies" are scared to death.

94 posted on 02/03/2004 12:48:39 AM PST by Texasforever
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To: Texasforever
As I sit here wearing the "Bush for President" hat that has been my friend for 3-plus years, and that I wore as I protested the FL recount fiasco the day the Supremes stopped the FL nonsense with their injunction, and as a BIG fan of W as a person, all I can say to your comment is this:

You/we had better be scared to death. The fact that the idea of a Moore candidacy resonates with a lot of people indicates the presence of a base that currently is inclined to just stay home if/when Moore doesn't run and W doesn't get a grip. You can kiss IL, WI, MN, IA, MI, OH, PA and a lot of other usually-close states good-bye. Lose those states, and it's hello President Kerry.
95 posted on 02/03/2004 12:59:41 AM PST by litany_of_lies
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To: litany_of_lies
The fact that the idea of a Moore candidacy resonates with a lot of people indicates the presence of a base

Then the "base" is not the "base" it is an opposition party. Moore, as was predicted, used his monument as a springboard for future elective office.

96 posted on 02/03/2004 1:04:34 AM PST by Texasforever
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To: Pokey78
During a question-and-answer period, Mr. Moore was asked if he would run for president. "Not right now," he said

Hey Judge Moore .. here's a hint

Don't push your luck by pulling a stunt like this

97 posted on 02/03/2004 1:10:47 AM PST by Mo1 (Join the dollar a day crowd now!)
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To: Pokey78
I'd rather vote for Judge Sanders Sauls- and he's a Democrat.
98 posted on 02/03/2004 1:18:23 AM PST by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge.)
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To: longtermmemmory
The only thing Moore is hurting is his much vaunted principles.

I agree .. I was one of those freepers that stood up for him when the ALCU was fighting to remove the monument

I still stand up for the monument .. but by Judge Moore saying the things he said in this article .. he proved me wrong about him and everyone else was right

99 posted on 02/03/2004 1:18:56 AM PST by Mo1 (Join the dollar a day crowd now!)
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To: litany_of_lies
You/we had better be scared to death.

Scared??

Nope ..

But I will say that I am very disappointed in Judge Moore and these comments of his

I thought he was fighting for a good cause when he fought to keep the monument

Little did I know .. he was only fighting for HIMSELF

I was sooooooooooooo wrong about Judge Moore ... I thought he was a man of prinicpal

I was So WRONG on that!

100 posted on 02/03/2004 1:28:31 AM PST by Mo1 (Join the dollar a day crowd now!)
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