Ripped Off! BE CAREFUL!

Self | 3/2/2004 | Self

[EUPHORIC]

Found a bogus $200 charge on my bank account today and the odd thing was it occurred just a few minutes after I myself had made a $200 cash withdrawal at an ATM in Apple Valley California - about 85 miles North of where the fraudulent withdrawal was made in Chino Hills California!!!

The ATM I used was exposed on the front of the bank and all I can think of is that someone was nearby with a very nice camera and grabbed the card number and my pin and then cloned the card.

I did not think that was possible with ATM cards but apparently it is? Anyway. Cards killed. New ones on the way out. Copss called. Anyone else get ripped like this?!?!?!

[Prime Choice]

Is it one of those credit/debit cards? Those things are low-hanging fruit for criminals. I refuse to have one, and any bank that pushes one on me loses my business.

[cspackler]

Ummm, since the extra charge was the same amount as your transaction, I would assume that your bank made an error which you can have corrected. If you were being ripped by someone, I doubt they would have taken the exact same amount as you...

[TomServo]

The ATM I used was exposed on the front of the bank and all I can think of is that someone was nearby with a very nice camera and grabbed the card number and my pin and then cloned the card.

Stuff like this very thing was reported on ABC news a couple of weeks back.

[Prime Choice]

Ummm, since the extra charge was the same amount as your transaction, I would assume that your bank made an error which you can have corrected. If you were being ripped by someone, I doubt they would have taken the exact same amount as you...

Actually, it would make sense. If someone had a sniffer on one of the lines, they may have simply done a replay attack at a different location. It's an old tactic that's been used for decades to defeat many request authentication systems.

[mbynack]

Check this out. It's pretty scary.

http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/atmcamera.asp

[TomGuy]

Send me the card number and pin and I'll see if I can verify it for you.

[Prime Choice]

As an aside, have your bank check with whatever business or bank owns the ATM used for the withdrawal. Last I saw, all ATMs have surveillance cameras and should have a record of who was at the terminal when the crime was committed.

[TroutStalker]

I have heard that thieves are using cell phone cameras to photo credit cards while they are being used to record the name, number and expiration date. The picture can be sent to associates to use as well. I always keep my card covered when it is out of my wallet.

Last summer someone used a card to charge $2400 at Lowes on my Discover card. It was a card presented that was swiped through the machine. Both of our cards were still in our possession. Some thieves use a copying machine to transfer data from your card to a blank one when your card is out of sight, like at a restaurant. I'm not sure how my charge done, but Discover reversed the charge while investigating, and after 90 days absolved me from any responsibility for the charge.

[Ursus arctos horribilis]

Odd, my debit cardf as well as the CC's are limited to only 200 bucks from ATM's on any one day?

[TomGuy]

Odd, my debit cardf as well as the CC's are limited to only 200 bucks from ATM's on any one day?

Many older cards used to have that limit and no exceptions.

I noticed with later cards, the 'owner' could extend the limit to much greater amounts.

[VOYAGER]

I got rid of my ATM privileges by, after the second time of misplacing it, returning it to the bank with the request they destroy it.

It was handy to have but such a liability for one who has lapses of memory on rare occasions.

[UB355]

There was a scam in Milwaukee last fall where some enterprising crook hid a small card reader onto the face of an ATM.

[newgeezer]

On a related note...

Bank ATMs Converted to Steal IDs of Bank Customers

A team of organized criminals is installing equipment on legitimate bank ATMs in at least 2 regions to steal both the ATM card number and the PIN. The team sits nearby in a car receiving the information transmitted wirelessly over weekends and evenings from equipment they install on the front of the ATM (see photos). If you see an attachment like this, do not use the ATM and report it immediately to the bank using the 800 number or phone on the front of the ATM.

The equipment used to capture your ATM card number and PIN is cleverly disguised to look like normal ATM equipment. A "skimmer" is mounted to the front of the normal ATM card slot that reads the ATM card number and transmits it to the criminals sitting in a nearby car.

At the same time, a wireless camera is disguised to look like a leaflet holder and is mounted in a position to view ATM PIN entries.

The thieves copy the cards and use the PIN numbers to withdraw thousands from many accounts in a very short time directly from the bank ATM.

Equipment being installed on front of existing bank card slot.


The equipment as it appears installed over the normal ATM bank slot.


The PIN reading camera being installed on the ATM is housed in an innocent looking leaflet enclosure.


The camera shown installed and ready to capture PINs by looking down on the keypad as you enter your PIN.

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[b4its2late]

It's not the cards that have the limits. Limits, daily withdrawal amounts, number of times used in a day, and off line limits (which tells a machine that you can or cannot have money when the ATM network is down) are maintained by your finanical institution.

[heleny]

So, the PIN reader is just a camera looking at your fingers? (it doesn't electronically detect the keypresses?)

The most convenient way to defeat that type of PIN surveillance is to use your other hand or a piece of paper (as long as it's not an infrared camera) to cover the hand entering the PIN.

Good thing most ATM's don't use touch screens! Those screens are larger, and you have to see where you're touching, so it's easier for hidden cameras to record your entries.

[heleny]

I hope the Chino Hills entry was simply a central processing center location for your Apple Valley transaction or perhaps a bank error. Good luck!

[kahoutek]

ping

[John Jorsett]

Out of curiosity, did you throw your receipt away at the scene? I can understand how they got the pin, but I'm wondering how they got the account number. Could they possibly have read the account number from the card itself?

[I_Love_My_Husband]

Was anyone else behind you in line? Were there other people at the atm?