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Kerry's Shifts: Nuanced Ideas or Flip-Flops?
NY Times ^ | March6, 2004 | DAVID M. HALBFINGER

Posted on 03/05/2004 9:23:15 PM PST by FairOpinion

BOSTON, March 5 — When Senator John Kerry was speaking to Jewish leaders a few days ago, he said Israel's construction of a barrier between it and Palestinian territories was a legitimate act of self-defense. But in October, he told an Arab-American group that it was "provocative and counterproductive" and a "barrier to peace."

On Feb. 5, Mr. Kerry reacted to Massachusetts' highest court's decision legalizing same-sex marriages by saying, "I personally believe the court is dead wrong." But when asked on Feb. 24 why he believed the decision was not correct, he shot back, "I didn't say it wasn't."

Throughout his campaign, Mr. Kerry has shown a knack for espousing both sides of divisive issues. Earlier in the race he struggled to square his vote to authorize the use of force in Iraq with his loud criticism of the war and his eventual vote against $87 billion for military operations and reconstruction.

Now with the general-election campaign under way, President Bush and Republicans are already attacking Mr. Kerry for precisely this characteristic. In California this week, the president said Mr. Kerry had "been in Washington long enough to take both sides on just about every issue." And on Friday the Republican National Committee e-mailed to reporters an Internet boxing game called "Kerry vs. Kerry" designed, the committee said, to highlight the senator's "multiple positions on multiple issues."

The e-mail included a list of Mr. Kerry's stances on 30 issues, including many of the examples that were researched in preparation for this article.

In fact, this trait, perhaps a natural one for a diplomat's son, seems to have been ingrained in Mr. Kerry's personality as far back as when he volunteered for duty in Vietnam after expressing doubts about the war as a college student — and then returned home and helped lead the opposition to the war.

Some aides and close associates say Mr. Kerry's fluidity is the mark of an intellectual who grasps the subtleties of issues, inhabits their nuances and revels in the deliberative process. They call him a free-thinker who defies stereotypes. Others close to him say his often-public agonizing — over whether to opt out of the system of spending caps and matching money in this campaign, or whether to run against Al Gore in 2000 — can be exasperating.

And some Democratic strategists worry that Mr. Kerry is still an unfamiliar figure to many voters, and that these early attacks show just how vulnerable he is to being defined by the Republicans as indecisive or politically expedient.

"If Kerry fails to define himself as someone who's been consistent on values, on foreign policy, on domestic issues, then the Bush team will have succeeded in putting him in a corner," said Donna Brazile, who ran Mr. Gore's campaign in 2000. "They want to get to his integrity and his character, and they will use his voting record and previous statements to undermine that he can be trusted."

Other Democrats suggest that the areas in which Mr. Kerry has showed indecisiveness or tried to split the difference are the same ones in which most Americans are conflicted.

"Clearly he is trying to walk a very fine line on extremely divisive social issues like gay marriage and the Patriot Act," said Ron Klain, another Gore adviser in 2000. "These are issues where the political terrain is changing very rapidly, and he is trying to stay in the middle. And I think he's walking the tightrope on those issues, and doing a pretty good job of navigating it so far."

Sometimes, Mr. Kerry's stances seem to be well-thought political strategy. At no time was this more evident than the day when he spoke against opponents of gun control in an Iowa barn, then strode out to his car, unwrapped an old shotgun, and went off to shoot pheasant. The message was that hunters could be for gun control.

Other times he may tailor his stands to an audience or even run away from past positions. When Gen. Wesley K. Clark pointed to a 1992 remark by Mr. Kerry calling affirmative action "an inherently limited and divisive program," the senator denied he had ever said that.

Sometimes Mr. Kerry seems to embody contradictions. When he lost for Congress in 1972, went to law school and became a prosecutor, he stunned some of his colleagues in the antiwar movement who thought he shared their anti-authority sentiment, sharpened by Vietnam and Watergate.

"A lot of liberal Democrats in Massachusetts thought, What is this about?" said Ron Rosenblith, who met Mr. Kerry in the antiwar movement and has worked for him over the years as an aide, campaign manager and consultant. "They didn't see it as consistent."

Of course, it is just some of these aspects of Mr. Kerry — hunter, prosecutor, deficit hawk, war veteran — which now give him an answer to suggestions that he is nothing more than a "Massachusetts liberal" in the mold of Michael S. Dukakis, whom he served as lieutenant governor.

"He doesn't fit into any neat pigeon holes," said Mr. Kerry's younger brother, Cameron, his closest adviser. "He's complex. So what?"

Those who have known him a long time say Mr. Kerry is a creature of the gray areas in politics and policy, asking endless questions about all the angles, playing the devil's advocate until his aides are exhausted, arguing as if with himself until the last possible minute.

"There's indoor John and outdoor John," said Jonathan Winer, a Washington lawyer and former State Department official who worked for Mr. Kerry from 1983 to 1994.

"Indoor John is thoughtful, works all this through, is nuanced, and so deeply into the process that you can get impatient," Mr. Winer said. "Outdoor John is a man of action. There'd be a point where, Boom! and go. Once it happened, the dialogue was over, and you wouldn't always know which way he was going to go."

Mr. Kerry's explanations for a number of the recent stances Republicans are branding as flip-flops have a common thread. He voted for the Iraq resolution but criticizes the war because, he says, the president "broke his promises" to exhaust the diplomatic process and use force only as a last resort. He voted for the education legislation known as the No Child Left Behind law but lambastes President Bush now because, Mr. Kerry says, he withheld promised additional money for education.

And on Friday, he said he had criticized the Israeli wall before the Arab-American group in October because its path was then expected to deviate widely from Israel's border into West Bank villages — though he conceded he had not made the distinction clear at the time.

Mr. Kerry also voted for the antiterrorism law known as the USA Patriot Act, which he has since all but repudiated, telling Democratic audiences that the best thing Congress put into that law was a sunset clause that will make it expire next year, unless Congress renews it. He has likened the law's use against Americans to the repression of Afghans by the Taliban.

But he also says the law was necessary when it was passed, as a response to the Sept. 11 attacks. And as recently as last week, he went further, telling a group of newspaper editors and reporters, "Of course I support it," before adding that his objections were mainly to the way Attorney General John Ashcroft had been "abusing" it.

People who have worked closely with him in the Senate say that Mr. Kerry tends to split differences. A longtime friend and aide put it this way: "On some major issues there are yes-but votes and no-but votes. He sees a lot of them as yes-but."

A "yes-but" can also be revisited. Mr. Kerry's critics have cited his position on the death penalty as evidence that even his core convictions can be bent to his political ambition. He was a longtime opponent of capital punishment but came out in favor of an exception for terrorists after the Sept. 11 attacks.

Mr. Rosenblith said Mr. Kerry had been thinking about the issue for years. He recalled that Mr. Kerry had terrorists on his mind when the subject arose in his re-election campaign against Gov. William F. Weld in 1996. "Even in '96, he thought that was a close call," Mr. Rosenblith said, remembering an elaborate discussion of the issue. He said Mr. Kerry decided against a death penalty for terrorists at that time because he thought it would keep other countries from extraditing terrorism suspects to the United States.

Indeed, Mr. Kerry said in a debate that Mr. Weld's support for the death penalty "would amount to a terrorist-protection policy."

What changed Mr. Kerry's mind, Mr. Rosenblith said, was that after Sept. 11, 2001, "other countries are far less likely to say, `No, we're not going to turn over this person to you.' "

"The world looks at terrorism very differently," Mr. Rosenblith said.

Mr. Winer, the former aide, who worked with Mr. Kerry on terrorism and many other issues, described Mr. Kerry's complexity as right for the times.

"Between the moral clarity, black and white, good and evil of George Bush that distorts and gets reality wrong," he said, "and someone who quotes a French philosopher, André Gide, saying, `Don't try to understand me too much,' I'd let Americans decide which in the end is closer to what they need in a president, in a complex world where if you get it really wrong there are enormous consequences."


TOPICS: Front Page News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2004; flipflop; indecisive; kerry; napalminthemorning; spineless; wot
"And on Friday the Republican National Committee e-mailed to reporters an Internet boxing game called "Kerry vs. Kerry" designed, the committee said, to highlight the senator's "multiple positions on multiple issues."

I'd like to see that e-mail.

The closing sentence: "...I'd let Americans decide which in the end is closer to what they need in a president, in a complex world where if you get it really wrong there are enormous consequences." is what people need to think about. Can you trust Kerry with life and death decisions of the American people? I don't think so.

1 posted on 03/05/2004 9:23:16 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
"When Senator John Kerry was speaking to Jewish leaders a few days ago, he said Israel's construction of a barrier between it and Palestinian territories was a legitimate act of self-defense. But in October, he told an Arab-American group that it was "provocative and counterproductive" and a "barrier to peace.""

I just have to believe that this guy is going to implode at some point
2 posted on 03/05/2004 9:24:40 PM PST by raloxk
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To: FairOpinion
Kerry's Shifts: Nuanced Ideas or Flip-Flops?

Neither..
just plain lies.

3 posted on 03/05/2004 9:28:32 PM PST by evad (We all stand together OR we hang separately!)
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To: FairOpinion
I'm surprised that the NY Times ran this marginally unbiased article, but not surprised that since they did choose to run it that they buried it on their low-readership Saturday edition...
4 posted on 03/05/2004 9:29:25 PM PST by Southack (Media bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: FairOpinion

5 posted on 03/05/2004 9:30:51 PM PST by binger
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To: FairOpinion; Kenny Bunk
It's simple.

He's a liar.

Is that nuanced enough?

6 posted on 03/05/2004 9:31:02 PM PST by Shermy
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To: FairOpinion
Some aides and close associates say Mr. Kerry's fluidity is the mark of an intellectual who grasps the subtleties of issues

Fluidity????? ROTFL. Kerry goes from one extreme to the other at a drop of the hat.

7 posted on 03/05/2004 9:34:08 PM PST by Always Right
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To: Shermy
"It's simple.

He's a liar."

Simplicity is the mark of eloquence.

What it means is neither side can trust him, he will knife them in the back if it is advantageous for his political ambitions.
8 posted on 03/05/2004 9:39:50 PM PST by punster
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To: punster; Buckhead; Kenny Bunk; aculeus; dighton; swarthyguy; a_Turk; Dr. Marten
Nuanced...NY Times...nuanced...NY Times...sounds familiar...

Dean Formulates a Nuanced Approach to Foreign Policy
Posted on 12/20/2003 10:44:09 AM PST by Dr. Marten

Naturally Mark Steyn is on top of this
Mark Steyn: John Kerry is all tied up in nuances

9 posted on 03/05/2004 9:44:39 PM PST by Shermy
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To: punster
In a two-holer, he will dump in his drawers before he will commit to which one to sit on. Just we we need, another indecisive idiot. Only this time, it's the United States who gets shat on.
10 posted on 03/05/2004 9:50:13 PM PST by jonascord (Don't bother to run, you'll only die tired...)
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To: Shermy
Mark Steyn can always see right throught the "nuances".

Here is a "30 round match" of Kerry vs. Kerry at the RNC, in a cartoon format.

http://www.gop.com/kerryvskerry/

I would like to see a summary, which would be easier to post, but this may be more dramatic.
11 posted on 03/05/2004 9:50:43 PM PST by FairOpinion ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country." --- G. W. Bush)
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To: Shermy
Bush replied: "I don't do nuance."

Works for me.
12 posted on 03/05/2004 9:56:49 PM PST by avenir (...thinking...)
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To: Southack
Interesting how all the "sources" interviewed by the unbiased reporter were all democrats.
13 posted on 03/05/2004 9:57:39 PM PST by boop
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To: evad
Neither..
just plain lies.

You beat me to it, however if I may, I'll add to your insight.

A lack of conviction and direction.

14 posted on 03/05/2004 10:22:37 PM PST by EGPWS
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To: binger
Hey, your post includes a picture of a man with two faces! ; )

...and stereo microphones to boot!

15 posted on 03/05/2004 10:25:04 PM PST by EGPWS
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To: FairOpinion
And that's from the NY Times! It's not lookin' good for mealy-mouthed, un-nuanced, unsophisticated liars in general nowadays.

Two of my coworkers were in the office tonight. One, my friend, is a partisan Democrat. He stated that if Bush gets back in, "ain't none of us gonna have jobs." We work at a drug rehab (a non-profit), and GWB asked Congress for $600 million for drug rehabilitation in the 2003 State of the Union.

But anyway, my other coworker ignored him the first couple of times he said this. I did also (he'd brought in the new "Star", and I was ogling female celebrities). Then she said, Bush was going to be reelected. This is not something I had expected her to say.

Maybe Bush will win Michigan... ;')
16 posted on 03/05/2004 11:18:17 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("Johnnie, we hardly cared to know ya.")
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To: FairOpinion; All
Kerry's World: Father Knows Best***From the start, Richard Kerry turned his oldest son into his foreign policy protégé. As Newsweek's Evan Thomas has written, "The Kerry dinner table was a nightly foreign-policy seminar. While other boys were eating TV dinners in front of the tube, [John] Kerry was discussing George Kennan's doctrine of containment." His father introduced the adolescent boy to such luminaries as Monnet and West German Chancellor Konrad Adenauer. Later, when he was at Yale, John Kerry traded letters with Clementine Churchill, Winston's wife.

As early as prep school, John Kerry showed signs that he shared his father's suspicions about America's cold war foreign policy. In a debate at St. Paul's in the late '50s, he argued that the United States should establish relations with Red China. During his junior year at Yale, he won a speech prize for an oration warning, "It is the specter of Western Imperialism that causes more fear among Africans and Asians than communism, and thus it is self-defeating." And, when he was tapped to deliver a graduation speech in 1966, he used the occasion to condemn U.S. involvement in Vietnam, intoning, "What was an excess of isolationism has become an excess of interventionism."

If Richard and John Kerry were not in perfect political sync, it was because the father, in an inversion of the usual dynamic, was more radical than the son. John Kerry, for instance, had grown enthusiastic about John F. Kennedy and his robust, anti-communist foreign policy. Indeed, it was his fervor for Kennedy's "bear any burden" call to service that largely inspired Kerry to join the Navy. Richard Kerry, by contrast, was more skeptical about New Frontier idealism. In a 1996 interview with The Boston Globe, he groused, "[John's] attitude was gung ho: had to show the flag. He was quite immature in that direction." When John Kerry came back from Vietnam, his father pushed him to be more outspoken in his opposition to the war. "When Kerry refused to speak out against the government [while in uniform], suddenly his father felt like he was being a wimp," says Brinkley. "[So he] encouraged his son to take off the uniform and to become a critic."

John Kerry, of course, did exactly this, first in Vietnam Veterans Against the War and eventually in the U.S. Senate. From the moment he arrived in Washington, Kerry promised that "issues of war and peace" would remain his passion. And, from the start, this meant that he would criticize Ronald Reagan's war against communism, especially when it was fought through proxies in the jungles of Central America. In 1985, he traveled to Nicaragua to meet with the Sandanista government, telling The Washington Post, "I see an enormous haughtiness in the United States trying to tell [the Sandinistas] what to do." Soon after his return, he pressured Congress into investigating the administration's illegal funding of the Contra rebels, opening a trail that culminated in the exposure of the arms-for-hostages deal with Iran. And, a few years later, in the late '80s, he repeated this success, launching an investigation that revealed that another of the administration's favorite anti-communists, the Panamanian dictator Manuel Noriega, had been deeply enmeshed in drug-trafficking. Kerry was also skeptical enough of U.S. power that he voted against authorizing a popular intervention -- the Gulf war -- and opposed a 1995 resolution that would have allowed the arming of Bosnians. ***

17 posted on 03/05/2004 11:19:04 PM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: FairOpinion
Mr. Kerry's fluidity is the mark of an intellectual who grasps the subtleties of issues, inhabits their nuances and revels in the deliberative process

hehe, It just doesn't get any better than this.

18 posted on 03/05/2004 11:23:36 PM PST by squidly (Money is inconvenient for them: give them victuals and an arse-clout, it is enough.)
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To: FairOpinion
I wonder why Pillory's "home town" paper didn't mention this BEFORE Super Tuesday?
19 posted on 03/05/2004 11:39:36 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (The world needs more horses, and fewer Jackasses!)
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To: FairOpinion
"Between the moral clarity, black and white, good and evil of George Bush that distorts and gets reality wrong," he said, "and someone who quotes a French philosopher, André Gide, saying, `Don't try to understand me too much,' I'd let Americans decide which in the end is closer to what they need in a president, in a complex world where if you get it really wrong there are enormous consequences.

That's just what we need -- a president who quotes French philosophers. And that quote essentially means, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain." Sheesh!

20 posted on 03/05/2004 11:55:47 PM PST by NYCVirago
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To: NYCVirago
Don't try to understand me too much,...

It's too late, Mr. Kerry. I already understand you too much, and too well for your own good.

Another philosopher once said, "No man is an island".

Well, from what I see, that's certainly true for you; a treacherous shoal is more like it.
21 posted on 03/06/2004 12:38:49 AM PST by ApplegateRanch (The world needs more horses, and fewer Jackasses!)
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To: FairOpinion
This guy can't even tell you in two words what he believes. And if he does he'll sooner or later emerge with the opposite position! A flip-flopper can be fine in a legislator, who you know is expected to engaged in horsetrading and seek the broadest possible ground with colleagues but its a fatal defect in a Chief Executive. With a President or CEO, one has the right to know his sense of direction and that both friends and foes know exactly where he stands. You get no such reassurance from John F. Kerry.
22 posted on 03/06/2004 2:15:58 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Always Right
I do not believe they ever taught that one in debating class. Hard to believe but in my day someone like Kerry would have flunked at being able to defend an unpopular position under fire. Let's face it, no one respects or fears the guy cause he has never stood up for his beliefs. That is if he has any people can find he's been known for all his life other than a willingness to do whatever is necessary to keep power.
23 posted on 03/06/2004 2:19:54 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: FairOpinion
Ask yourselves this:

Whom do you think that nuts like Bin Laden, Kim Jong Il, Assad, and the Iranian mullahs would like to see elected US President this November? Someone who is taking it to them or Kerry?
24 posted on 03/06/2004 3:53:24 AM PST by Smber (The smallest minority is the individual. Get the government off my back.)
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To: FairOpinion
Ah, Nuancyboy!
25 posted on 03/06/2004 4:19:00 AM PST by hershey
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To: Smber
If "Malaise Foreever" describes the Carter Administration then I shudder to think what might describe a Kerry Admin.

He wants power for powers sake and that makes him far more dengerous than people know. The terrorists and tyrants of the world are pulling for Kerry because they know his reaction to them and their attacks will be like Clintons.

Non-existant!!

26 posted on 03/06/2004 5:19:08 AM PST by Phlap
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To: evad
Throughout his campaign, Mr. Kerry has shown a knack for espousing both sides of divisive issues.... Now with the general-election campaign under way, President Bush and Republicans are already attacking Mr. Kerry for precisely this characteristic.

The author makes it sound like "espousing both sides of divisive issues" (what us dummies might call "lying") is actually a very positive characteristic. And yet again, the mean old Republicans are "attacking" our hero for this very trait. How awful! Isn't it odd how John Kerry can berate President Bush for being so dense that he can't figure out the answer to all these simple issues. They only seem to get complicated when someone asks John Kerry for the answer. Let's just hope the voters finally grasp the truth that John Kerry is full of.... um..... nuance.

27 posted on 03/06/2004 5:26:01 AM PST by GraceCoolidge
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To: Southack
bump
28 posted on 03/06/2004 5:28:11 AM PST by alisasny (John Kerry is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.)
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To: FairOpinion
Pulling a complete 180 is not a nuanced idea.
29 posted on 03/06/2004 5:30:46 AM PST by New Horizon
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To: hershey
This must be the article you referenced in another thread.

Good grief.
30 posted on 03/06/2004 5:45:54 AM PST by Samwise (I am going to need to be sedated before this election is over.)
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To: binger
ha! another good reason to support genetic mutations ;-)

A two headed kerry !!!!
31 posted on 03/06/2004 8:20:12 AM PST by festus
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To: FairOpinion
The reason why JFKerry flip and flops from one day to the next is his brain has gone to "pot".

He simply cannot remember what he said the day before.

Can there be any other reason why he keeps playing and replaying those films he made in Vietnam, reenacting his gun battles? I am only half joking.
32 posted on 03/06/2004 8:24:13 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: FairOpinion
Here we go again. Liberal idiot media is about to start parroting the "n-word" to convince everyone that Kerry is a genius (like all liberals, everywhere, all the time).

You see, whenever a fellow liberal doesn't make sense it's merely a matter of him being too deep for the rest of us yokels to understand. When a conservative does the same thing, it's proof that he's a knuckle-dragging moron.

So the idiot liberal media has a job to do. They have to repeat the word "nuanced" approximately four million times to create the impression that Kerry is so intelligent that making the least bit of sense is beneath him.

33 posted on 03/06/2004 10:27:27 AM PST by Reactionary
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To: Samwise
Indeed, that's the article. You'd think the NYTimes, based in NY, where the World Trade Center was attacked not once, but several times (two planes and that truck bomb), would have a greater sense of self preservation than to alibi for a candidate whose election will insure more deaths in the Big Apple. How many times do they have to get hit before deciding passivity, appeasement, and law enforcement type thinking are suicidal? I don't understand it.
34 posted on 03/06/2004 10:42:19 AM PST by hershey
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To: jonascord
"There's indoor John and outdoor John,"

Doesn't matter the location. A pissoir by any other name would still reek.
35 posted on 03/06/2004 3:32:30 PM PST by TASMANIANRED (black dogs are my life)
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To: hershey
How many times do they have to get hit before deciding passivity, appeasement, and law enforcement type thinking are suicidal? I don't understand it.

You don't understand my fellow New Yawkers are so sophisticated they're too dense to appreciate that they're way up there on the top of the target list for shear numbers to kill.

36 posted on 03/06/2004 4:16:26 PM PST by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: ValerieUSA; blam; FairOpinion; Ernest_at_the_Beach
Ping!
Election 2004 threads on FR

37 posted on 09/30/2004 10:49:40 AM PDT by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
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To: FairOpinion
This article shows very well why this guys decision style would be an absolute disaster for America and the World in dealing with Terrorists.

______________________________________________________________________________

"There's indoor John and outdoor John," said Jonathan Winer, a Washington lawyer and former State Department official who worked for Mr. Kerry from 1983 to 1994.

"Indoor John is thoughtful, works all this through, is nuanced, and so deeply into the process that you can get impatient," Mr. Winer said. "Outdoor John is a man of action. There'd be a point where, Boom! and go. Once it happened, the dialogue was over, and you wouldn't always know which way he was going to go."

38 posted on 09/30/2004 11:40:17 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Thanks for the ping!


39 posted on 09/30/2004 11:48:06 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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