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Halls of Ancient Alexandria's Ivy Found
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS ^ | Published: May 27, 2004

Posted on 05/31/2004 6:32:29 AM PDT by Grzegorz 246

CAIRO, May 26 - Polish archaeologists have unearthed 13 lecture halls believed to be the first traces ever found of ancient Egypt's University of Alexandria, the head of the project said Wednesday.

"This is the oldest university ever found in the world," said Grzegorz Majderek, head of the Polish mission.

The lecture halls, with a capacity of 5,000 students, were part of the fifth-century university, which functioned until the seventh century, according to a statement from Egypt's Supreme Council of Antiquities.

"This is the first material evidence of the existence of academic life in Alexandria," Mr. Majderek said. Knowledge of earlier intellectual pursuits there came through historical and literary documents.

Ancient Alexandria was home to a library, which was founded about 295 B.C. and burned to the ground in the fourth century. Ruins were never found. The auditoriums were found near the portico of the Roman Theater in the eastern part of the city. All the lecture halls are of identical dimensions. Each contains rows of stepped benches in a semicircle and an elevated seat apparently for the lecturer, the antiquities council said.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: alexandria; ancient; archaeologists; archaeology; economic; egypt; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; poland; polish
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1 posted on 05/31/2004 6:32:30 AM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: blam

I thought you might be interested in this.


2 posted on 05/31/2004 6:39:18 AM PDT by Bahbah
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To: Bahbah

yes, indeed.


3 posted on 05/31/2004 6:42:30 AM PDT by hershey
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To: Grzegorz 246

First the pyramids, then the library and university at Alexandria. Egyptians were rather clever before they got the moslem disease.


4 posted on 05/31/2004 6:58:55 AM PDT by struwwelpeter
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To: Grzegorz 246

I find it interesting that the system of education by lecture has survived this far into the modern world. For most of human history books have been expensive and hard to obtain; but that's no longer so. Adhering to the lecture system, where the student is obliged to attend classes that may or may not be available when he needs them seems, to my mind, to be an outmoded and wasteful way of doing things.


5 posted on 05/31/2004 6:59:38 AM PDT by Agnes Heep (Solus cum sola non cogitabuntur orare pater noster)
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To: farmfriend

GGG Ping!..


6 posted on 05/31/2004 7:05:31 AM PDT by TomServo ("D'oh!...I filled my pants, sir...In fact, I think I filled yours too.")
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To: struwwelpeter
First the pyramids, then the library and university at Alexandria. Egyptians were rather clever before they got the moslem disease.

I think the library and university were Greek institutions, only nominally "Egyptian" because of their location.

7 posted on 05/31/2004 7:06:53 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Hic amor, haec patria est.)
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To: PatrickHenry

Aw, that's a Copt-out ;-)


8 posted on 05/31/2004 7:08:53 AM PDT by struwwelpeter
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To: PatrickHenry

Quite so but the fact remains that ANY society infected by the islamofascists sinks into darkness and does nothing of note again. Much like Canada, oh that was just mean... sorry eh?


9 posted on 05/31/2004 7:24:13 AM PDT by Camel Joe (Proud Uncle of a Fine Young Marine)
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To: struwwelpeter

Egyptians were rather clever before they got the moslem disease....

This slur indicates a complete lack of historical perspective.

The Alexandrian educational complex although in Egypt, was Greek. The next educational leap actually came out of the Islamic conquest.

Your own Western thought sprang from Arab scholorship discovered during the Crusades.


10 posted on 05/31/2004 7:35:18 AM PDT by bert (Don't Panic !)
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To: Agnes Heep

Educators (which includes parents) have a number of tools at their disposal, including lectures, book-reading, apprentiseships, and so on. Just because something is old doesn't necesarily mean it's become irrelevant.

There are many schools that currently have been trying alternative approaches to education, and failing. It really depends on the student's learning style, the material being covered, the developmental age of the student, the environment, and so on....


11 posted on 05/31/2004 7:36:44 AM PDT by Theo
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To: Theo

I'm thinking more on the lines of adult education, i.e., beyond secondary school. The problems you've mentioned are generally associated with bad self-discipline and poor reading skills.


12 posted on 05/31/2004 7:40:48 AM PDT by Agnes Heep (Solus cum sola non cogitabuntur orare pater noster)
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To: Agnes Heep

I'm not sure you are right, my American History prof was a real treat to listen to. He made old George and the rest come to life and brought them into the 20 century.

I sure would have hated to miss his lectures.


13 posted on 05/31/2004 7:41:11 AM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: Grzegorz 246

mark


14 posted on 05/31/2004 7:42:24 AM PDT by Jaded
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To: bert

Source?


15 posted on 05/31/2004 7:43:26 AM PDT by null and void (If you think more government is the solution to every problem, North Korea should be your paradise!)
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To: bert

The great scholarship of the Mohammedans was almost all due to Christians, Jews and converts. The caliphs and sultans took Christians and Jews and a few Zoroastrians to be their advisers and viziers. Most, not all, were converted to Islam or feigned conversion. Some of these stars were children of the original converts. The scholarship consisted mostly of translation into Arabic of the Greek texts from Alexandria and Antioch and Edessa, etc. that preserved much before the Islamic destruction of originals.


16 posted on 05/31/2004 7:44:41 AM PDT by arthurus (Better to fight them over THERE than over HERE.)
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To: Bahbah; farmfriend

Thanks. GGG Ping.


17 posted on 05/31/2004 7:53:22 AM PDT by blam
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To: Agnes Heep
an outmoded and wasteful way of doing things.

Two things that might make it useful:

I think humans have a tendency to be lazy. Lecture helps focus one's mind for a period of time on the subject. As a student, without the lectures, I might not have self-educated as efficiently.

"Iron sharpens Iron". It is helpful to pose questions to a lecturer and have him or her answer. Then others in the class can also question each other. It is good for the mind to be challenged and apply one's mind in the cause of defending arugments.

I like Dorothy Sayers' essay on "Recovering the Lost Tools of Learning". She talks about the importance of not learning merely "subjects" but that learning is about the ability to take any subject and be able to argue persuasively and to express oneself in language.

18 posted on 05/31/2004 8:49:17 AM PDT by agrarianlady
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To: null and void

Will Durant..... Our Oriental Heritage Volume 1 of 11
The life of Greece Vol II


19 posted on 05/31/2004 8:59:03 AM PDT by bert (Don't Panic !)
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To: bert

Thanks. I'll check it out.


20 posted on 05/31/2004 9:05:49 AM PDT by null and void (If you think more government is the solution to every problem, North Korea should be your paradise!)
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To: Grzegorz 246

well, so much for TRoP claims to have been the first culture to establish universities.
The PC crowd must be sooooo depressed.


21 posted on 05/31/2004 9:46:58 AM PDT by King Prout (the difference between "trained intellect" and "indoctrinated intellectual" is an Abyssal gulf)
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To: TomServo; *Gods, Graves, Glyphs; A.J.Armitage; abner; adam_az; AdmSmith; Alas Babylon!; ...
Gods, Graves, Glyphs
List for articles regarding early civilizations , life of all forms, - dinosaurs - etc.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this ping list.
22 posted on 05/31/2004 9:47:50 AM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
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To: bert
"Your own Western thought sprang from Arab scholorship discovered during the Crusades."

What "Arab" scholarship would that be? Plato and the Eliatics were merely rediscovered; Arab philosophic "scholarship" is still defined by a single person - Alfarabi.

23 posted on 05/31/2004 10:20:49 AM PDT by Reactionary
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To: narses; Aquinasfan
"A memo in ancient Greek and Coptic from UA's Faculty Sub-Committee on Multicultural Student Awareness were among the finds...'We need to get rid of codices by all of these dead white western males like Homer, Aristotle, Hippocrates, Theophrastus, and Andronicus of Rhodes...Hypatia would like a Women's Studies program next fall...And a group of students calling themselves the Fellowship for a New Age would like weekend seminars on channelling Isis, Osiris, and antediluvian Atlantean Masters of Wisdom...' "
24 posted on 05/31/2004 11:58:55 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Reactionary

Boethius, Augustine, Cassiodorus, and Alcuin were Arabs??? Which "crusades" were in Toledo and Monte Cassino??? Amazing the things they are doing with Aristotle, Cicero, and Plato in Saudi Arabia these days...


25 posted on 05/31/2004 12:05:19 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: bert; Reactionary; Aquinasfan; narses
"Your own Western thought sprang from Arab scholorship discovered during the Crusades."

Where is this "discovered" Western thought generally found today??? Lot of Aristotelians in downtown Cairo and Mecca???

26 posted on 05/31/2004 12:11:38 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: bert

Nope, not even close.


27 posted on 05/31/2004 12:23:31 PM PDT by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: null and void

Lol, you're asking for a source to verify Alexandria was Greek?


28 posted on 05/31/2004 12:23:38 PM PDT by Justa (Politically Correct is morally wrong.)
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To: King Prout

TRoP????


29 posted on 05/31/2004 12:24:50 PM PDT by jpsb (Nominated 1994 "Worst writer on the net")
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To: Justa

Nope. Asking bert to site a source for his claim that all western thought came from møøselimbs.

It seems to have been refuted by some other posters...


30 posted on 05/31/2004 2:13:37 PM PDT by null and void (If you think more government is the solution to every problem, North Korea should be your paradise!)
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To: Agnes Heep

As far as I can tell, we have yet to come up with a better system for real communication than face-to-face dialogue. While a lecturer can't engage in one-on-one dialogues, they offer something that no book, movie or internet site ever will be able to.


31 posted on 05/31/2004 2:25:56 PM PDT by smcmike
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To: Reactionary

Ibn Khaldun's Muqaddimah is generally thought of as a hell of a good history. Arab scholarship, during years before the crusades, WAS far beyond anything in western europe. The fact that it was based upon Greek thought doesn't mean much: at least they were civilized enough to preserve greek learning!


32 posted on 05/31/2004 2:30:51 PM PDT by smcmike
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To: Grzegorz 246
Honestly I'm a little disappointed that there isn't any "Polish joke".
33 posted on 05/31/2004 2:52:08 PM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: bert

I believe the mohamedan invaiders burned the library to the ground.


34 posted on 06/01/2004 5:28:07 AM PDT by correctthought (Shop smart, shop S-mart.)
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To: struwwelpeter
Egyptians were rather clever before they got the moslem disease.

I note the university functioned from the 5th to the 7th centuries. The end seems to coincide with the Arabs kicking out the Byzantines in the late 600s.

35 posted on 06/01/2004 5:38:15 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
Lot of Aristotelians in downtown Cairo and Mecca???

Well, yes. The Arabs preserved the Greek literature that would have been lost when the Roman Empire declined. Europe was dark. The crusades brought the knowledge of the knowledge to Europe. There was a reformation and a Renaissance.
36 posted on 06/01/2004 11:40:00 AM PDT by bert (Don't Panic !)
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To: bert; narses; Aquinasfan; NYer; Polycarp IV
Um...The "Reformation" tended to look negatively on Aristotle....You may recall Luther's Disputation AGAINST Scholastic Theology..."Knowledge" of the Logical Treatises came through Boethius, a non-Arab. Just for the record. The "Renaissance" tended towards Platonism and the rhetorical eloquence of copying Cicero, painting and sculpture It had very little to do with Aristotle or the Crusades. Or Islam... The Renaissance occurred in Italy, largely a "Catholic" affair. Protestantism facilitated the growth of fideism and a decline in the study of Aristotle - which continues to this day. The general trend in modern American universities is to reject essentialism and there is not exactly a "renaissance" of Aristotelian teleological ethics going on outside of a few specialized Catholic centers for the study of philosophy.

Most of the same people who brag about a Muslim/Arab role in preserving Aristotelian scholarship reject it emphatically as part of the "Dark Ages" - a metaphorical terminology popularized by Petrarch to describe lack of knowledge of Ciceronian rhetorical Latin - something which has nothing to do with Muslims. IF lack of knowledge of Aristotle is "dark" that makes the modern American era one of the darkest in Western intellectual history.

William of Moerbeke, call your office...

37 posted on 06/01/2004 1:03:20 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
"Amazing the things they are doing with Aristotle, Cicero, and Plato in Saudi Arabia these days..."

Indeed. Saudi Arabia is about as interested in classical scholarship as the tenured Leftist dolts on American campuses, eh?

38 posted on 06/01/2004 1:23:49 PM PDT by Reactionary
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To: struwwelpeter
Aw, that's a Copt-out ;-)

Now where did I leave my baseball bat...

39 posted on 06/01/2004 1:30:32 PM PDT by Ichneumon
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To: Reactionary; narses; Aquinasfan
about as interested in classical scholarship as the tenured Leftist dolts on American campuses, eh?

I was always amused to hear liberal academics boasting of the rediscovery of "Greek learning" after the long "Dark Ages." And loved to ask them where on campus we could find that wonderful, brilliant, modern, enlightened, "Renaissance" of classical Greek scholarship, intertextual exegesis, and Aristotelian philosophy. A bizarre, awkward expression and silence usually followed, since the liberal in question usually knew no Greek and little Aristotle.

Helps to keep the liberal ideology of progress and modern "Renaissance" romanticism in perspective.

40 posted on 06/01/2004 2:23:12 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: jpsb

The
Religion
of
Peace
(tm)

Islam, in other words


41 posted on 06/02/2004 1:26:38 PM PDT by King Prout (the difference between "trained intellect" and "indoctrinated intellectual" is an Abyssal gulf)
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To: smcmike
at least they were civilized enough to preserve greek learning!

I think that's a good point. I've also read about their advances in medicine and the correlation they made concerning sanitation and health. It went well beyond the Greeks.

Our culture's understanding that sanitation might be a good thing really didn't come about until the Civil War. (Was told at Plymouth Rock that the natives were disgusted that the English didn't bath. Who knows.) It wasn't until the 1860's that we started to look at Lister's and Jenner's work seriously and began to understand that flies will travel the short distance from the outhouse to the hospital's kitchen and having the surgeons sharping their amputation knives on their dung covered boots may not be a great idea.

All in all, it a lesson in the cyclic rise and decline of cultures.

42 posted on 06/02/2004 9:03:26 PM PDT by lizma
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Fascinating history of the library. Notes that the library was *not* burned by Julius Caesar, and in fact was around during Roman times, and was finally consigned to the flames by the Moslems:

The Vanished Library The Vanished Library
by Luciano Canfora
tr by Martin Ryle


43 posted on 04/21/2006 8:39:54 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

44 posted on 08/17/2006 11:06:38 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Grzegorz 246

Why not mention WHO destroyed the Library of Alexandria and WHY?????????

Could the Cult of Death misdescribed as the Religion of Peace have had something to with it?


45 posted on 08/17/2006 11:13:53 PM PDT by rock58seg (A minority of Republican RINO's are making a majority of Republicans look like fools.)
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To: Agnes Heep
student is obliged to attend classes that may or may not be available when he needs them seems, to my mind, to be an outmoded and wasteful way of doing things.

Finding it hard to get up for class in the morning??? are we???

46 posted on 08/17/2006 11:16:37 PM PDT by rock58seg (A minority of Republican RINO's are making a majority of Republicans look like fools.)
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To: bert

"Your own Western thought sprang from Arab scholorship discovered during the Crusades."

What complete b*ll*cks.


47 posted on 10/03/2006 12:06:43 AM PDT by plenipotentiary
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To: bert
Your own Western thought sprang from Arab scholorship discovered during the Crusades

Um, make that Western thought re-discovered. The Arabs of that era were still intellectually living off the plunder of Christian Civilizations they had overrun. It did help snap us out of the 'Dark Ages,' as did the Byzantine refugees from Islam who flooded into Europe, particularly the Italian City States.

The Muslims are owed a debt for preserving such Classical Knowledge as they did, and should also properly be castigated for that which they destroyed or forgot. Note I say "Muslims," not Arabs. Many of the "Muslim Best and Brightest" were actually forcibly converted Christians, and especially Jews.

Intellectually speaking, Islam has been an intellectual curse and a civilizational retrograde movement in those countries unlucky enough to have fallen to Arab conquest.

48 posted on 04/14/2007 11:05:02 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk (Hillary: A sociopath's enabler in the White House?)
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To: Agnes Heep
I find it interesting that the system of education by lecture has survived this far into the modern world. For most of human history books have been expensive and hard to obtain; but that's no longer so. Adhering to the lecture system, where the student is obliged to attend classes that may or may not be available when he needs them seems, to my mind, to be an outmoded and wasteful way of doing things.

With something over 300 semester hours of college credits to my credit (or shame), I believe I must agree with you, at least somewhat. There ARE lecturers it's worth listening to, even today, though. Of course, we have recordings of many of those folks, now, too. ;) Google the Khan Academy, for a great example of lecture-on-demand. Especially if you have HS teenagers.

Oh, and I just LOVE your tagline!

Old Student

49 posted on 07/21/2012 7:03:13 PM PDT by Old Student (Do NOT make me get out the torches and pitchforks...)
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To: Old Student

Well, some of us would not be comfortable going to a medical doctor with a degree from a correspondence school.

Or a lawyer who knew law by reading all the required texts from Harvard Law but who never actually went there.


50 posted on 07/21/2012 7:11:05 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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