Suggested Swift Boat Vet Talking Points - Please Contribute!

FR | 8-10-04 | Bob J

[Bob J]

One never knows who is trolling FR for tidbits, sound bites and suggestions. Please use this thread to offer your own talking points and sound bites for the Swifties and media.

PLEASE - Sincere, serious and well thought out sound bites/talking points only! Let's make this a neat, compact reference thread for the media and Swifties. If someone refuses to cooperate, please self moderate (abuse button)!

[Bob J]

1. Of course these men weren't on Kerry's boat, they were contemporaries, peers, senior officers and fellow swiftboat captains who were commanding their own boats and men alongside Kerry during the time of the events in question.

2. Collectively these men have 375 years of experience in Vietnam and on their swift boats, compared to the 16 total months of Kerry and his nine enlistees.

3. These men were in boats yards away from Kerry and were witnesses to what happened. They were well positioned to observe the events in question.

4. Many of the Swift Boat Vets are decorated war heroes themselves and not only have earned the right but have a duty to expose thos who they believe received honors fraudulently.

5. The Swift Boat Vets who signed the petition collectively earned (Insert total of medals and honors) Saying these men do not have the right to speak out or claiming they are lying is an abomination and insult to all soldiers who served their country honorably during the VietNam war.

6. Saying the Swifties have no right to give witness to these events because they were not in the same boat as Kerry is like saying Ron Goldman (if he survived) has no right to testify against OJ because he wasn't wearing Bruno Magli shoes.

[ChadGore]

Kerrys capacity for capitulation knows no bounds.

1) kerry lead a capitulation movement against his own country.

2) Bush lead a capitulation movement against our enemies, the way is should be done.

[tioga]

The election process, including the Swift Boat ads, is a vetting process for the presidency of the U.S. Americans have a right to speak, be heard and then to vote. Carry on.

[Steven W.]

a) do you have to be a passenger in a car wreck to be a witness to a traffic accident?

b) the swift crews were as close as a football team to include the QB, offense, defense & special teams.

c) when somebody is interviewed the prosepective employer typically gets references from his former bosses and fellow peers, not those who served UNDER him.

[BadAndy]

They are not Republican operatives, just concerned citizens.

[Mycroft Holmes]

The boats typically operated in groups in close proximity to each other. The men all lived in the same barracks when not on the boats. They did serve together.

[Always Right]

The voters have the right to know the truth. Bush released all his records, why doesn't Kerry?

[Rabid Dog]

The White House denounced the advertisement on 8/5/04 and issued the challenge that all "soft money" advertisements cease.

[hobbes1]

Those are all very good, but there is really only one talking point left.

It helps to remove some of the heat from the swifties, and puts the emphasis where it belongs, ON KERRY.

Simply Put, on several occasions Senator Kerry, in speech, and in writing spoke of the painful experience of being in Cambodia, on Christmas Eve of 1968, and being haunted by the fact that President Nixon denied their prescence.

Now, a simple Calendar tells one that he is lying about Nixon, because Nixon was not president yet.

But More importantly, IF Mr.Kerry was not in Cambodia, why did he repeatedly claim to have been?

Is that not really a slur against the United States of America, much akin to his Slur of Vietnam veterans during the Senate hearings...?

The repeating of the Cambodia fiction, tells a voter everything they need to know about Mr.Kerry's true feelings aobut the projection of American Force abroad.

Foretold, is Forewarned.

[Steven W.]

this has less to do with Vietnam as it does with Kerry's mental fitness and delusions supposedly "seared into his soul" and recanted as recently as 2003

[WOSG]

That's good, but do you have a brief talking-points synopsis of the Swift Boat Vets *claims*? It would be good have that in summary form.

[Rabid Dog]

Why did the DNC or Kerry not distance themselves from Michael Moore's propaganda hit piece or denounce it. What is the relationship between Moveon.org and DNC personnel?

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

So Kerry, lets get your crew together
and they can tell America how you and
they were in Cambodia on Dec 24 and 25 1968,
under Nixon's orders even though Nixon
wasn't Commander-in-Chief until Jan 20 1969

You and your crew were there.
They can verify this? Correct?

Johnson, Lyndon
1963-69
Nixon, Richard
1969-74

Odd, I was in Vietnam on Dec 24 and 25 1968
and Johnson was my Commander-in-Chief

John Kerry

Exhibit 25, Congressional Record - Senate of March 27, 1986, page 3594.

"Mr. President, I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have President Nixon telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia.

I have that memory which is seared -- seared -- in me . . . ."

By way of further example, Kerry wrote an article for the Boston Herald on October 14, 1979:

"I remember spending Christmas Eve of 1968 five miles across the Cambodian border being shot at by our South Vietnamese allies who were drunk and celebrating Christmas. The absurdity of almost killed by our own allies in a country in which President Nixon claimed there were no American troops was very real."

See Exhibit 26.

[borisbob69]

Regardless of what Kerry did or didn't do in-country...his actions as a spokeperson for Viet Nam Veterans Against the War tells us all we need to know about being "Unfit for Command"!

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

It's a simple as this

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1188761/posts?page=13#13

Now where are the crew members that were on the boat with Kerry?

[WOSG]

That's right. The Swift boat veterans are not disputing his service, they are disputing how he (a) put in for medals he didnt deserve by embellishing what happened and (b) how he made claims (like "Christmas in Cambodia") that werent true, and (c) how he made post-war claims about 'war crimes' and atrocities among swift boat operations that was false and libelous. Along the way, though, they highlight that Kerry seems to have been out for himself from day one, disputing his official story of a changed man after his service ... So the question is

HONESTY

[Spok]

When Kerry testified before Congress in 1971, he alleged war crimes and confessed to participation. How can Kerry be a hero if he committed war crimes? Which Kerry story is true? Why won't the media ask him to elaborate? There's more evidence that he was a war criminal than there is that Bush went AWOL. Why isn't that news?

[Grampa Dave]

Anyone who has not contributed their own $'s to the Swiftboat ad fund, should have the decency to immediately donate to the Swift boat vets to counter the tie in with the mediots and Kerry.

Why we should contribute to the Swift Boat Money raising for tv ads, based on comments from Kerri's staff"

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1188521/posts

According to a Kerry campaign source, senior campaign advisers tasked two Washington-based campaign staffers to vet the recently published Unfit for Command.

"The purpose was to compare what that book had with what we had on file from Senator Kerry," says the campaign source, who said that the research project developed more than 75 instances where Kerry's recollections, previous remarks, or writings conflicted with the book's reporting.

"We took some of the most glaring examples, like the Christmas in Cambodia story, and presented them to senior staff, and we assume that those things were put in front of Senator Kerry," says the source. "We haven't heard a word about it. All we were told is that it was being taken care of."

The campaign source said that the book was not considered a "serious" problem for the campaign, because, "the media wouldn't have the nerve to come at us with this kind of stuff," says the source.

"The senior staff believes the media is committed to seeing us win this thing, and that the convention inoculated us from these kinds of stories. The senior guys really think we don't have a problem here."

---

It is obvious that ABCNNBC BS and O'Reilly are in the closet with Komrade Kerry's Klan, and they will never get the real story out.

For the real story to get out, the Swift Boat Vets need funding to buy tv ad time. That Funding must come people like Freepers.


"It is time that we fund these brave Navy warriors's effort to get the truth out to America, since the mediots will not do it!


To Donate to Swift Boat Vets

$100 via my credit card is now in their advertising account.

Here is the link to donate:

https://coral.he.net/~swiftvet/swift/ccdonation.php?op=donate&site=SwiftVets

[rolling_stone]

all the swiftboat vets are asking for is for Kerry to release all his records..he already said he would, President Bush has done so so why doesn't Kerry do what he said he would, what is he hiding? In fairness to all he should be held to the same standard he holds President Bush to...



http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20040421-121056-7919r.htm

[xm177e2]

Kerry has also taken back one of the records previously released (the january spot reports)

Why is he un-releasing a document, what did it contain that is so embarassing, and who else has a copy?

That would make for a good talking point.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

John Kerry needs help getting ALL of his military records.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1188078/posts

[rolling_stone]

I believe the january reports were for combat that Kerry was not involved in, they got called on it...there is a fr thread on it..

[anglian]

August 10, 2004
Fisking Rassman's WSJ op-ed in today's Wall Street Journal
From his op-ed in today's Wall Street Journal, Vietnam veteran Jim Rassman, who spoke eloquently for Sen. Kerry at the Democratic National Convention, now argues passionately against the SwiftVets who believe Sen. Kerry is unfit to be Commander in Chief:

This smear campaign has been launched by people without decency, people who don't understand the bond of those who serve in combat.
I see. None of the 250+ SwiftVets understand that bond. You and the small handful of other vets who travel from campaign appearance to campaign appearance with Sen. Kerry do, however — exclusively. Those 250+ guys were just kind of standing around in Vietnam, and didn't really form any bonds, care about their wounded, care about their fellows who died. They don't understand. You and the veterans who do support Sen. Kerry have a monopoly on decency. Right.

Their new charges are false; their stories are fabricated, made up by people who did not serve with Kerry in Vietnam.
Again, I see. Your own quality time spent with John Kerry in Vietnam should instead be persuasive to us. And you tell us how much time that was, quite candidly:

I was not part of John Kerry's command. I was a Special Forces officer who happened to be on his boat at that time.
In fairness, you also say that you "worked with him on many operations and saw firsthand his leadership, courage and decision-making ability under fire." But you suggest that we should discount to zero, however, the views of the gunner from Kerry's own boat; everyone else on the boat "served with Kerry," as, apparently, did you, Mr. Rassmunn. But not that guy!

And we should likewise ignore the views of John Kerry's fellow officers-in-charge of the swift boats that accompanied him on the same day you say he earned his Bronze Star. Precisely one out of twenty-three of the OICs in Coastal Division 11 who served fought worked ummm, did whatever they did at the same time Kerry was in Coastal Division 11 — the officers who actually lived with him, who trained and briefed with him, and whose boats accompanied Kerry's own on the other missions he undertook during his four-month in-country tour (which they, and most of us, might consider "serving with" him) — now supports Sen. Kerry. However, you, Mr. Rassman — who abhor "smears" — apparently value their service, their word, and their opinions, at zero. They, you say, "should hang their heads in shame."

For his actions that day, I recommended John for the Silver Star, our country's third highest award for bravery under fire. I learned only this past January that the Navy awarded John the Bronze Star with Combat V for his valor.
Ah! Okay, from these two sentences, we learn precisely how well you knew John Kerry in Vietnam, and how strongly indebted you felt to him at the time, and how closely you've followed his career ever after. You neither knew of his medal when it was awarded, nor followed up what had happened with your own medal recommendation, nor paid sufficient attention to any of Kerry's multiple election campaigns over the last 30+ years (including the entirety of his presidential campaign before January 2004) to hear of his Bronze Star. John Kerry made national headlines for throwing his/someone's medals/ribbons over a Capitol fence, but it never occurred to you to wonder if one of those medals/ribbons came from saving your life. You couldn't be bothered — we can only presume because of your "passion for orchids." Yes, sir, clearly you are the man to whom America should turn now for a comprehensive assessment of John Kerry's military career!

Mr. Rassman, in the unlikely event that you're reading this: I do honor your service, just as I do John Kerry's (however much or little it was). I don't doubt that you're genuinely grateful to him — as no doubt was Licorice the Unlucky Hamster, whom he also saved from a watery death many years later. (All snark aside, Mr. Rassman, I don't seriously mean to compare you to a hampster. Snark is as intrinsic to fisking as bullets are to combat, but no one would suggest that snark be taken as seriously as bullets or combat, least of all me.)

But those of us who are trying to sort out the differences between your version of events and those of the SwiftVets who were also there on-scene at the time, like Larry Thurlow, are still wondering about the answer to the very specific question that Mr. Thurlow put to you — for which you offered no answer — during your and his recent joint interview on CNN:

---

If you were under heavy fire at that moment, why is it that neither Lt. Kerry's boat — nor any of the other boats whose crews were engaged in rescuing two other Americans who were wounded and put into the water by an exploding mine — had any bullet holes after the fight?

---

It's a really, really simple question, sir. Now, I'm genuinely glad that you and the others survived. And one must make allowances for the "fog of war." Perhaps from your viewpoint in and under the water, you thought the precautionary, suppressive automatic weapons fire toward the left bank that Mr. Thurlow described as being laid down by the swift boats was, instead, aimed at you. Certainly the mine or mines that exploded proved that all the boats in the area were in genuine danger. But "heavy fire" from "both banks of the river"? Heavy fire that couldn't manage to put one bullet hole into even one out of five boats?
http://beldar.blogs.com/beldarblog/2004/08/rassmann_in_the.html

---

Update (Tues Aug 10 @ 11am): The WSJ, at least in its online edition, spells the gentleman's name as "Rassmann," but I see it elsewhere as "Rassman," which strikes me as more likely correct. I've edited this post accordingly. And thanks to Power Line for the links!

[april15Bendovr]

Vietnam was a difficult time in US history. Kerry's role in that history should be examined as he runs for the highest office in the country and leader of the free world. If Kerry and the Democrats want us to ignore that his photo hanging up at the Saigon war museum tauted as a hero to communism isn't an issue? then we have have to force that issue for resolve. Let us not forget it is he who keeps reminding us of his war record and we should respond by studying how his actions helped Communist Vietnam and Khmer Rouge

[livius]

A caller to Neal Boortz today said that there was a video that the North Vietnamese used to show to their forces, containing Kerry spouting his anti-US rhetoric and Jane Fonda doing her usual schtick. Neal didn't know about it, and I don't know if this is true either, but perhaps somebody could find out.

[rolling_stone]

interesting Rassman didn't know about Kerry's medals but apparently he wrote him a letter in 1984 that went unanswered:


Except for a letter that went unanswered in 1984, just after Kerry was elected to the U.S. Senate, Rassman made no further attempt to contact Kerry.

http://news.statesmanjournal.com/article.cfm?i=84021

[anglian]

The report that Kerry's boat hit a mine seems ridiculous on its face. The #3 boat was severely damaged by the mine it hit. There is no report of any damage to PCF-94 at all. In fact it was one of the boats that towed #3 to safety.

[livius]

Sorry, it wouldn't have been a "video" at that time, but a film. It's hard to remember the days before VCR's...

[Dilbert56]

If these men can't evaluate Kerry because they weren't on the exace same boat, how can John McCain evaluate their claims? He was on an aircraft carrier and then in a POW camp. Nowhere near these events. Somehow his word is supposed to be dispositive though.

[Jerry W. Howard]

Kerry says that he spent Christmas 1968 on a Swift Boat "five miles inside Cambodia listening to Presiden Nixon telling the Nation we weren't there" or something like that BUT ---- Nixon wasn't president until Jan 20, 1969!

Lyndon Johnson was president that Christmas. Probably Nixon hatred was a big formative factor in Kerry's anti-US dogma. If he is not smart enough to check the facts when constructing his past, why should we trust him to get it right when constructing our (and our children's) future?

[Callahan]

1. Senator Kerry could clear up alot of confusion by releasing his full military records--as the DNC asked the President to do--not just the parts that make him look good.

2. John Kerry told congress that the memory of Christmas Day 1968 in Cambodia was "seared" in his brain. Why is the all-important moment left out of the Brinkley hagiography.

3. The Boston Globe bio of Kerry seems to describe him shooting a teenage VC in the back.

[borisbob69]

Preaching to the choir...I was in Viet Nam from July 68-July 69 and well remember the activities of Hanoi Jane and Hanoi Kerry. His after action conduct highlights his disdain for the honor and sacrifices of so many brave men and women who weren't trying to set the stage for future political ambitions.

My emphasis was mainly on his tratorous behavior following his early departure from 'Nam. I figure there are many people who will embrace his claims of being a hero because they don't give the Swifties any credibility, but nobody can deny his public actions following his return.

[Inspectorette]

Is Rassman on Kerry's payroll? If not, who is bankrolling him? Does he have a real job? IIRC, he's from Florence, Oregon (a beautiful little city on the Oregon Coast).

Not to take away from his service in Vietnam, but what has he done since then? He suddenly reappears when Kerry announces his run for the presidency, and he's been traveling with the campaign ever since.

[jmaroneps37]

I'm a retired cop. All the cops and retired cops I talk to fully understand that you don't HAVE to be on the boat to know pretty much what went down on the boat. There are only two cops in a radio car but the other guys in the command know what happens in other cars. This is especially true for particular incidents. Everybody responds. Everybody sees what's happening.

[april15Bendovr]

There is probably a lot of archive stuff on Kerry that has already mysteriously disappeared I bet? Just like the photo of Bill Clinton hanging out up in a tree for a week in Arkansas protesting the Vietnam war. The Fire Dept had to come by a spray him off because he stunk so bad.

[rolling_stone]

http://news.statesmanjournal.com/article.cfm?i=84021

it looks to me like rassman who should be about 56 years old retired early from Los Angeles Sheriff's department if he retired a decade ago...

[OldFriend]

Now that it is clear that Kerry lied about his Christmas in Cambodia, it's clear that he is not to be trusted.

[anglian]

Is this his current band of brothers? Just before kerry's early departure with his medals. As stated; "Worried that his crew members would be killed, Kerry "arranged for them to receive a safer assignment". Michael Kranish, Globe Staff, 6/16/2003 Candidate in the making.[Part Two] Also has been posted that; On the day Kerry received the Silver Star. He put his crew in for medals also. 2 Bronze Stars w/combat V and 3 Navy Commendation medals w/combat V were awarded based on Kerry's lies in addition to his Silver Star.

[april15Bendovr]

I would like to thank you for your service to our country. I could only imagine how hurtful it must be to see the actions of John Kerry and how his role in that war has tarnished the image of the Band of Brothers he claims now to be a strong member of?

[rolling_stone]

interesting from this article rassman was a news junkie and followed Kerry's career...almost like a sleeper he comes out of the woodwork to boost Kerry's nomination...


James Rassman had retired to Oregon and devoted himself to growing orchids. A news junkie, he followed Kerry's Senate career and the launch of his drive for the White House. He was unaware that journalists and historians were eager to talk to him, that he, Rassman, was a missing piece of the biographical puzzle of a man who wants to be president.


http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/01/18/veterans_bond_is_boost_for_kerry/

[anglian]

this article from Washington Post on June 1, 2003.

John Kerry: Hunter, Dreamer, Realist

From the last couple of paragraphs:

"My good luck hat," Kerry said, happy to see it. "Given to me by a CIA guy as we went in for a special mission in Cambodia."

From an article from the Washington Post on June 1, 2003, that deserves far broader attention. And who is [John Kerry],
A close associate hints: There's a secret compartment in Kerry's briefcase. He carries the black attaché everywhere. Asked about it on several occasions, Kerry brushed it aside. Finally, trapped in an interview, he exhaled and clicked open his case.

"Who told you?" he demanded as he reached inside. "My friends don't know about this."

The hat was a little mildewy. The green camouflage was fading, the seams fraying.

"My good luck hat," Kerry said, happy to see it. "Given to me by a CIA guy as we went in for a special mission in Cambodia."

Kerry put on the hat, pulling the brim over his forehead. His blue button-down shirt and tie clashed with the camouflage. He pointed his finger and raised his thumb, creating an imaginary gun. He looked silly, yet suddenly his campaign message was clear: Citizen-soldier. Linking patriotism to public service. It wasn't complex after all; it was Kerry.

He smiled and aimed his finger: "Pow."

[borisbob69]

Thank you for your kind words. I retired from the Air Force in 1986, after 20 years, and have managed to keep a positive attitude and even gained some perspective about the turbulence surrounding the late 60's and early 70's.

[HenryLeeII]

The notion that being "half a football field" away from Kerry's boat, and saying they couldn't have known what was going on, is stupid. Any service member can see and hear things happening 50 yards away. Besides, Van O'Dell was manning a .50 caliber machine gun 14 feet above the water line - he had a better view of the action than someone in the water, and if there was a firefight, he would have been involved.

[Bob J]

"In true Walter Mitty fashion, Kerry dons a ball cap received as a gift from a CIA operative and begins dreaming that he is in Cambodia."

[EQAndyBuzz]

All I want to know is, why won't the good Senator tell us why he will not give up his Senate seat?

I smell Toreccelli.

[Just mythoughts]

Pinning down Rassmann and his supposed claims last January to drag a drowning JFKerry campaign for a second gulp of air.


Rassmann IMO is a "KEY" to exposing part of JFKerry's lies.

Rassmann has no history with JFKerry until the Brinkley "hero" making book.

Somehow Rassmann got wind of Brinkley's book and he claimed that he was in Southern California and took the time to go into a book store and thumb through the new book to see if he was in it.

I do not believe this is exactly what happened. Didn't believe it the day he told it on nation wide tv and still do not believe it today.

When did Rassmann first met JFKerry? Which "ship" I mean "john" boat did Rassmann fall into the water from? Was Rassmann injured that day, what medals has he received?

We do not know the whole Rassmann story and last week he was complaining about memory problems.

[EQAndyBuzz]

All I want to know is, why won't the good Senator tell us why he will not give up his Senate seat?

I smell Toreccelli.

[EQAndyBuzz]

All I want to know is, why won't the good Senator tell us why he will not give up his Senate seat?

I smell Toreccelli.

[april15Bendovr]

I am 40 years old and feel there is a big void in my life for not serving my country in the military. I envy those that do and did. My brother is a commander in the Navy and my father was over in Korea at the age of 15. I try at my age to make sense of the 60s and 70s and continue to despise how much the pendulum swung to the left.

[Mike Darancette]

The doctor who stated that Kerry did not deserve the purple heart for his wound should clarify why the report (being waved around by DNC operatives) was signed by someone else (HM-1 Corpsman).

This was probably standard peocedure for minor Boo-Boos.