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Kerry - Bad Conduct Discharge, 1970, Maybe, 1971?
Various, cited | 9/8/04 | Tacis

Posted on 09/08/2004 7:44:19 AM PDT by Tacis

It is indeed unfortunate that a man who would be President so distrusts the American public and his own background that he hides material information in his military records in the hope of hornswoggling the electorate, of tricking us into believing he is one thing when, in fact, he may be another.

Kerry is asking American voters to assess his fitness to serve as CinC based on his brief record in-country. But, he refuses to release his total military record, about 12 years, so that we can judge the totality for ourselves. It is not that he is asking us to weigh the pieces of his record differently, he is saying, “You can’t see it, you have no right to see, you have to take my word!” Always remember that Benedict Arnold had a wonderful combat record and reputation as a patriot until he turned traitor and tried to betray the cause by turning West Point over to the British enemy.

In an earlier posting, I suggested that Kerry had a major blemish on his military record and had applied for and been granted a pardon under President Jimmy Carter’s January 21,1977, Proclamation 4483 which granted “... a full, complete and unconditional pardon to: (1) all persons who may have committed any offense between August 4, 1964 and March 28, 1973 in violation of the Military Selective Service Act or any rule or regulation promulgated thereunder; and (2) all persons heretofore convicted, irrespective of the date of conviction, of any offense committed between August 4, 1964 and March 28, 1973 in violation of the Military Selective Service Act, or any rule or regulation promulgated thereunder, restoring to them full political, civil and other rights.”

And that, further, the Office of the Pardon Attorney, United States Department of Justice, as a matter of public record, might be able to prove or disprove this thesis. This hypothesis remains open.

Note again, that Kerry’s refusal to be honest with America, his refusal to trust the judgment of Americans to evaluate his total military record and draw our own conclusions, forces us to guess what is in his past, a stain so terrible that he chooses to lie to America rather than reveal the truth. And, what he hides and why, weighs in determining today if he is fit to be President or fit to be Senator.

Maybe Kerry wasn’t actually court martialed. There is another possibility, a variant. It is that Kerry was issued a bad conduct discharge, was booted out of the USNR and was unable to reverse the BCD until Carter took over in January, 1977. Kerry has remorselessly bombarded us with repetitions of his 4.5 months of Viet Namese heroism as proof that he is fit to be CinC. Even former President Clinton, from what might have been his death bed, is said to have warned Kerry to move on, presumably, before Kerry is forced to tell the truth.

A subset of the bad conduct discharge would be a bad “spin” code on an honorable discharge. It, too, would be a blemish that would have to be kept hidden. A Google search on “bad paper discharge” and “special program number” suggest a couple of possibilities about why Kerry is lying while talking only about his time in-country.

The Attorney General of the State of Illinois posts, “Defending Your Rights, Veterans Rights: The Legal Rights of Illinois Veterans” ( that is especially informative. According to this site, there are basically two types of discharge, first, “other than dishonorable,” I.e., “Honorable Discharge, General Discharge (under honorable conditions), Hardship Discharge and Medical Discharge “ and, second, "Bad Paper" discharges i.e., Dishonorable, Bad Conduct, Undesirable, and "other than honorable".

According to another site ( 1/437/437_05_LaborAgainstWar.shtml), “In the Vietnam era alone, 375,000 men and women received a variety of discharges, all coded less than honorable. There was no hearing, no trial, no review. They were just given this bad paper and turned loose on the street.”

Even those separated under “other than dishonorable” conditions could carry a bad mark. At some point, perhaps as early as 1953, the Department of Defense began to code the DD 214 of a terminating serviceman with a number that was designed to let the military recruiting officer handling the individual’s request to re-up, to immediately be able to characterize his past tour of duty.

There are some surprisingly rich sites that explain the intricacies of a DD 214 . One such site is: "" It describes the Special Program Number (SPN) or “spin” number used on DD 214s that could brand the vet for life.

One source ( comments.cgi?entry_id=3280) claims “ but there was no official ‘recall’ or notice to vets, [but it is] estimated about 200,000 vets had honorable discharges with bad spin numbers, and who did not know it.” My analysis did not determine whether this 200,000 was in addition to the 375,000 veterans mentioned above or inclusive.

Perhaps, the most extraordinary finding in this brief research project was in a site that is a dictionary of military slang and terms from the Viet Nam era, That site defines “bad conduct discharge” as follows, “ Also known as a BCD, "bad paper" or a Boston College Degree. This is what the Marine Corps did to guys convicted at court martials for mid-level felonies like theft, fraud, drug abuse and assault. It's one step below a dishonorable discharge. Boston College is, of course, where Kerry went to law school, 1973 -76 and from which he got a Boston College diploma.

We know Kerry was issued a DD 214 in March 1970 even though his military obligation wasn’t supposed to end until March, 1972, a total of about 6 years (there is an issue of whether his agreed upon total obligation was 6 or 6.5 years). It may be they “turned him loose.” We also know that Kerry received a discharge in March, 1978 but have not seen any associated DD 214.

Here’s my hypothesis. Kerry did not turn bad without reason. Just as Benedict Arnold turned bad when he did not receive the recognition he felt he deserved, so to, I believe, did Kerry respond to some slight, real or imagined by the Navy. His true record will show, I believe, some action/inaction by the Navy (passed over for promotion/assignment?), then his request to be released to run for Congress, the 3/70 DD 214 and transfer to the inactive reserve, and then, in 1970, 1971 or 1972, a bad conduct discharge (or “Big Chicken Dinner” as one respondent described it). Maybe, it was a bad “spin” number, but then that would not explain the seemingly strange dates and 12 year period of military service.

There would also be a DD 214 associated with a bad conduct discharge, one we have not yet seen. Note that Nixon was in the White House and he and his staff might not have appreciated Kerry’s anti-war efforts. The ultra liberal media would have us believe that Nixon could be vindictive. This scenario might also suggest that, since Kerry had been discharged, he was no longer an officer in the US Naval Reserve when he went to Paris to collaborate with representatives of the Viet Cong. It may still have been treason in the broad sense, but not in the technical sense because he may not have held a military commission.

Whether Kerry’s BCD was covered by Carter’s blanket pardon or not, Kerry’s pull with Kennedy and the democrat administration that took office in January, 1977 ought to have been enough to get him pardoned under some catch-all provision. There should be records. If my thesis is correct, Kerry’s military file should also include a completed Form DD 149, “Application for Correction of Military Record Under the Provisions of Title 10, U. S. Code, Section 1552” and Form DD 293, “Application for the Review of Discharge or Dismissal From the Armed Forces of the United States.” The submission of Form DD 293 requires, as a precondition, that applicants “obtain copies their military personnel records by submitting a Standard Form (SF) 180, Request Pertaining to Military Records...” Note that these specific forms found on today’s internet were not the same versions that would have been used in the period 1970 through 1978.

Thus, if the above be correct, we can hypothesize some of the documents that would have to be in Kerry’s official military record (and in his own personal files) but continue to be hidden from the eyes of objective observers, and their approximate dates. There would be a bad conduct discharge letter (1970-71) and related DD 214 (and, perhaps, some documents related to the termination process, but no Certificate of Honorable Discharge), a DD 293 (1977), a SF-180 (prior to the date of the DD 293), a DD 149 (maybe, 1977) and a transmittal letter responding to the SF-180 and correspondence related to the resolution of the DD 149 and 293 applications. There would have to be a DD 214 associated with the Navy letter of Feb 18 1978 honorably discharging Kerry from the Navy and a copy of the Honorable Discharge Certificate, mentioned in the Navy letter but not included on Kerry’s site. There should also be a request from Kerry for the specific documents (and only those documents) transmitted Navy National Personnel Records Center letter of 24 May 1986. There also has to be a form/request to which the Correction to DD Form 214 dated 3/12/2001 (authorizing, in part, 4 bronze stars on Kerry’s Viet Nam Service Medal) was issued as a response.

It is a crying shame and a disgrace that a man who would be President and has based a portion of his claim of qualification on his military service, refuses to allow American voters to judge that service in toto. His deception and lack of candor forces us to guess what might be in that record, a terrible stain that makes in safer for him to risk the accusations of mendacity rather than the certain damage of honesty. Sure, he could have been a spy in Paris, informing on the Viet Cong or on all his friends in the VVAW and the other anti-war folks he dealt with. But, even proof of that would give us insights into the character of the man who would be President. Kerry has the opportunity to confirm to us his bravery, service to nation and integrity. When he fails to take that opportunity, he proves himself to be a worthless (no offense, Teresa) liar. Question his patriotism? Hell, yes!! Benedict Arnold was a heroic patriot until he turned bad and became a traitor.

I am a big enough man to admit when I’m wrong. If Kerry didn’t receive a bad conduct discharge from the Navy, all he has to do is file an SF-180 and make the package available to trustworthy, honest evaluators for publication to and review by all concerned American voters. Then, a list of simple questions and his direct responses. If Kerry’s record proves he wasn’t cashiered, I’ll admit I was wrong and apologize. But, if he refuses, if his record won’t be available for review by all America, if he is as unfit today as the Navy found him to be 30 some years ago, I urge him to step down immediately and resign from both the national ticket and the Senate seat he sometime fills.

TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2004; bush; camejo; censored; cheney; dishonorable; dubya; edwards; election; gwb; kerry; militaryrecord; nader; secret
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Perhaps, as shoddy and mendacious as Kerry’s behavior is, the behavior of our ultra-liberal media is worse. Everything above (and a lot more) is available to the media. All the facts, documents and theory in the above is available to every investigative reporter in the nation. The above process should have long ago been followed by the media. It is unfortunate that most of the traditional media are far too interested in electing Kerry to bother with doing any fact finding or reporting of information that might dissuade the electorate, present the truth, or call on Kerry to do what they’d expect of the next applicant for the most menial job on their staff, to be honest and candid.
1 posted on 09/08/2004 7:44:22 AM PDT by Tacis
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To: Tacis

Last night Bill O'reilly said that he had found anti war speeches given on college campuses by John Kerry when he was a student. This tells me that Kerry was pursuing an agenda when he went to Vietnam.

2 posted on 09/08/2004 7:52:12 AM PDT by cripplecreek (The economy won't matter if you're dead.)
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To: Tacis

skerry was against the VN war BEFORE he went. Which btw he did after being REFUSED a deferment.

3 posted on 09/08/2004 7:53:51 AM PDT by marty60
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To: Tacis

Expect no unbiased behavior from the media. Expect no serious investigative journalism, like the old days. Those days are gone and they have chosen the far-left as their political icon, and their elitist arrogance keeps telling the duped portion of the public what is real and right.

It is tragic for this country that some people still believe what they read or hear in the media is credible and complete. Sad.

4 posted on 09/08/2004 7:54:06 AM PDT by EagleUSA
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To: Tacis
This is:

1. Slander

2. Dumb. Listen to the tapes of Noxon going off on Kerry. Is they ANY chance he would not have found out and brought it up if Kerry had such a blemish on his record? NO.

3. Counterproductive. There are plenty of things to knock Kerry for that can be documented. Wasting time and bandwidth on Kerry was court martialed/ Kerry was got a bad conduct discharge fantasies doesn't just use up resources better put to good uses, it gives Kerry's supporters in the MSM the chance to dismiss ALL charges against Kerry as unfounded, because some people are making clearly unfounded charges.

5 posted on 09/08/2004 7:54:24 AM PDT by Pilsner
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To: Tacis

I think Brinkley knows something about kerry's war record or discharge and he's aware that it will be revealed. That is why he's backpeddling.

6 posted on 09/08/2004 7:54:56 AM PDT by dc-zoo
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To: Tacis
If President Bush's military records contain hundreds of pages how can anyone conclude that sKerry's would contain any less?
7 posted on 09/08/2004 7:55:23 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: Tacis

An officer cannot get a BCD. An officer gets a Dismissal from a General Courts-Martial ONLY. You cannot and do not get Bad Conduct Discharges, Dishonorable Discharges or Dismissal from an ADMINISTRATIVE action. Period.

8 posted on 09/08/2004 7:56:47 AM PDT by RetiredArmy (The time is coming for all true Patriots to rise up and take back this Republic!)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator


10 posted on 09/08/2004 7:59:30 AM PDT by Rocket1968 (Democrats will crash and burn in 2004.)
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To: bhlewis

While highly conspiratorial (and maybe true) if there is a skeleton in the closet, the Clintoni family will leak it...I wonder what else they are saving for the near future??


11 posted on 09/08/2004 7:59:51 AM PDT by EagleUSA
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To: Tacis

Where are this a-hole's med and military records. I am getting so pissed off about all this. This guy is getting a free pass.

12 posted on 09/08/2004 8:00:51 AM PDT by faithincowboys
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To: Tacis

What you propose is sheer speculation. While it makes for an interesting thought experiment, it's almost certain that it didn't happen.

In the first place, if I understand correctly, an officer cannot receive a BCD. Only enlisted personnel can receive that class of discharge, and that would have been reflected on his DD214.

I suggest you put your considerable energy and intellect into some area that's likely to bear fruit. This one's a sure loser.

13 posted on 09/08/2004 8:01:26 AM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: cripplecreek
My guts tell me that Kerry could have gotten out of his stint to Vietnam. His camera, his three purple hearts which gave him a pass home, his testimony, his association with Hanoi Jane all speak of a "Mission" of anti-war, anti-military investigation conducted by himself.

I do not deny that he served. It's the why of his service that I'm thinking about and the why of using the Purple Hearts to renig on his commitment.

14 posted on 09/08/2004 8:01:43 AM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: RetiredArmy

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

It seems more likely to me that there are some extremely unfavorable fitness reports squirrelled away in there, and possibly some medical records indicating treatment for something he doesn't want widely known (got clap?).

15 posted on 09/08/2004 8:02:04 AM PDT by Terabitten (Father, grant me the strength to live a life worthy of those who came before me...)
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To: Pilsner
Here are some "Founded" chareges against Kerry.

Is John Kerry a war criminal? Consider the following.

After the Tet offensive North Vietnam was beaten, but with the Socialist press in America and the VVAW the North Vietnamese Communists decided to hold on.

This meant that instead of a US victory in South Vietnam and freedom for the South Vietnamese we had 10,000 - 15,000 more US deaths. America’s POW's were being tortured while listening to tapes of John "Traitor" Kerry calling them baby killers.

The VVAW, an antiwar group, which Kerry was one of the national leaders of, was receiving directions from the North Vietnamese Communist Government. VVAW in contact with in contact with NV Communist Government

The directions were on how the VVAW should protest the Vietnam War.

The interaction became so depraved, that the North Vietnamese Communist contacted the VVAW via a phone call and advised the VVAW that they were getting ready to start an attack on US troops and that the VVAW was to be prepared to increase the protests against the increase in bombing that the NV Communists were sure would happen. This put our men in further danger because of John Kerry and VVAW actions. VVAW gets directions from the VS Communists

John Kerry had no concern for the lives of his fellow soldiers in Vietnam or the POW's, John Kerry only cared about himself and his ambition to become POTUS, whatever the cost.

How many deaths of United States servicemen does John Kerry have on his hands?

How many families has John Kerry's behavior as a VVAW leader and a traitor to his country caused untold pain and suffering to?

How many unnecessary tears have been cried because John Kerry betrayed our trust to help a Communist government?

Does John Kerry still have ties to Communists in America?

John Kerry was an officer in the US Navy during his protests of the Vietnam War, having not received his discharge until 1978.

Why didn't John Kerry speak out just one time against the war crimes of his "Comrades in Arms the North Vietnamese Communists"?

Steven J. Pitkin says about his Winter Soldier testimony. “John Kerry and other leaders of that event pressured me to testify about American war crimes, despite my repeated statements that I could not honestly do so. One event leader strongly implied that I would not be provided transportation back to my home in Baltimore, Maryland, if I failed to comply. Kerry and other leaders of the event instructed me to publicly state that I had witnessed incidents of rape, brutality, atrocities and racism, knowing that such statements would necessarily be untrue.”

Winter Soldier, Pitkin recants and says he never witnessed any atrocities in Vietnam

I've also been wondering why Kerry never reported the atrocities he supposedly witnessed while in Vietnam. Maybe because Kerry may have never witnessed any atrocities while he was in Vietnam. The VVAW leaders were meeting with the North Vietnamese Communist Government, leaders of the Communist Party in Moscow, possibly the KGB, leaders of the Communist Party International in Paris, leaders of the Communist Party and last but not least the group of Communists in South Vietnam that backed the North Vietnamese Communists.

These Communist groups were directing the VVAW leaders as to what they wanted them to do, and that is what the VVAW did.

So in a nutshell, when the world communist leaders told Kerry and his group what to do, that is what they did, no questions asked.

And then if you want more:

Several of my posting concerning John Kerry, VVAW and the FBI files.

Highlights of the FBI files and John Kerry, section 7 (October 1971)

Do the FBI Files concerning the VVAW (Kerry’s antiwar group) indicate a plot to assassinate Pres. Nixon?

Here is what I have found in the FBI files re: VVAW and John Kerry

John Kerry caused a fracture in VVAW for his own selfish goals (FBI Files reveal)

Kerry, Watergate: DNC Links Caused Break-in? (Kerry lied! Still with the VVAW after February 1972)

Lets watch the film of John Kerry and VVAW members throwing combat medals over the fence

Treat as Yellow – John Kerry’s VVAW coordinating with the North Vietnam Communist Government when US forces are under attack

VVAW leader meets with Communists to discuss tactics in the US antiwar movement. Kerry’s group!
16 posted on 09/08/2004 8:02:24 AM PDT by stockpirate (Dick Morris; Before he spoke, supporting Bush was a duty one owed to the fallen. Now, it is an honor)
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To: RetiredArmy
There is some wild speculation going on here that has no basis or foundation. You correctly point out that an Officer can not get a bad conduct discharge. The headline of this thread is misleading and should be pulled.
17 posted on 09/08/2004 8:03:36 AM PDT by RVN Airplane Driver ( the real John Kerry)
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To: Tacis

Young Kerry, son of a diplomat and friend of the Kennedys, would only be escorted out of the Navy with (false) decorations. If only Zumwalt were alive. Perhaps, only perhaps, Kerry's service records will have the true facts about how and why Kerry's "tour of duty" was cut short.

18 posted on 09/08/2004 8:04:03 AM PDT by Poincare
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To: Pilsner

So? It is a pressure point. And documents like this can leak: Kerry had his own copy. Who knows who else saw it, or has a copy?

19 posted on 09/08/2004 8:05:19 AM PDT by eno_ (Freedom Lite, it's almost worth defending.)
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To: Pilsner

Anybody doing actual research on this should shut up, because it's
1. Nasty unless proven,
2. Useless unless documented, and
3. Counterproductive unless both proven and documented.
Premature spec makes us like the "Bush lied- and kids died!" crowd.

20 posted on 09/08/2004 8:06:42 AM PDT by steve8714
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