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Ancient Pot With Horse-Taming Picture Discovered (3,000 YO)
Xinhuanet/China View ^ | 9-12-2004

Posted on 09/12/2004 5:22:24 PM PDT by blam

Ancient pot with horse-taming picture discovered

www.chinaview.cn 2004-09-12 16:15:58

LANZHOU, Sept. 12 (Xinhuanet) -- Archaeologists in the northwestern province of Gansu discovered a 3,000-year-old pot with a design showing a scene of horse-pasturing in Minqin County recently.

The painted design shows a man herding eight horses. Some of these horses are bucking and some stand quietly; some have tails and some do not. All of the horses have large buttocks, slender waists and thin legs.

Surrounded by the eight horses, the wide-shouldered, slender-waisted man is in a long gown. His physique and dress are quite similar to those of ethnic people living in the horse-taming area,said Wang Haidong, Vice Chairman of the Gansu Provincial Painted Pottery Research Institute.

The pot, 22 centimeters high and 24 centimeters in diameter, has a pair of symmetrical handles on each side of its body and a sunken bottom.

It's body is painted with complicated pictures and images, and alternating black and red broken lines. The most eye-catching of these pictures is the image of the man and the horses.

This is the first time that ancient painted pottery with a horse-pasturing picture has been discovered in China, Wang said, adding that the picture indicates that horses were domesticated inChina as long as 3,000 years ago.

Previously, only ancient painted pottery with images of donkeys,sheep, dogs and pigs had been found in China.

The images of horses and drawing lines on the picture are similar to those from the Tang Dynasty (618-907), indicating that horse drawing skills used in the Tang Dynasty might have been borrowed from ancient pottery painting, said Wang.

Wang said discovery of the horse-pasturing picture was significant not only in the study of development of human beings and painted pottery, but also in the study of the history of traditional Chinese painting.

The discovery provides support for the idea that traditional Chinese painting originates from patterns on ancient painted pottery, Wang noted. Enditem


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: ancient; archaeology; china; discovered; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; horsetaming; picture; pot
The ethnic people mentioned in this article were Caucasian. At this time, Gansu China was populated with Caucasians...some even believe all Europeans originated in this area.
1 posted on 09/12/2004 5:22:25 PM PDT by blam
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To: SunkenCiv

GGG Ping.


2 posted on 09/12/2004 5:22:58 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam; farmfriend

Maybe a keyword like GGG ("Gods, Graves, Glyphs") would be useful for these posts?


3 posted on 09/12/2004 5:28:00 PM PDT by risk
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To: blam

Wait till this turns into a WOsD thread...but an excellent read.


4 posted on 09/12/2004 5:29:54 PM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: blam

Horses were a source of food weren't they?


5 posted on 09/12/2004 5:37:20 PM PDT by coconutt2000
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To: CWOJackson
Wait till this turns into a WOsD thread

Dammit you beat me to it!

6 posted on 09/12/2004 5:40:24 PM PDT by chesty_puller (USMC 2D Combined Action Group Viet Nam 70-71)
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To: chesty_puller

Sorry 'bout that.


7 posted on 09/12/2004 5:42:11 PM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: blam

As I recall in reading about indo-european language history, the region where Tocharian was spoken was in the neighboring province to the west of Gansu. Tocharian being one of the more ancient indo-european languages.

I also remember something about some archeological finds of tall red haired men wearing tartan kilts near here. I believe there are also some blue eyed Chinese in this area as well today.

None of these things fit well with "official" Chinese history, however.


8 posted on 09/12/2004 5:45:29 PM PDT by seowulf
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To: blam

I know horses; just about the time you get them trained to the pot, they leave home and take up with loose mares.


9 posted on 09/12/2004 5:46:07 PM PDT by Old Professer (The enemy is among us; he is us; we know it, we dare not say it - someone will be offended.)
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To: blam
Ancient pot discovered

I thought this was gonna be a libertarian legalize drugs post. My Bad...
10 posted on 09/12/2004 5:49:22 PM PDT by GeorgiaFreeper (Hitlery does not have fat ankles. That's where the hooves show through above the foot prosthetics.)
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To: blam; FairOpinion; Ernest_at_the_Beach; SunkenCiv; 24Karet; 2Jedismom; 4ConservativeJustices; ...
p-p-p-ping!
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest
-- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

11 posted on 09/12/2004 5:59:49 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: risk
"Maybe a keyword like GGG ("Gods, Graves, Glyphs") would be useful for these posts?"

You are correct...I always forget, thanks.

12 posted on 09/12/2004 6:05:10 PM PDT by blam
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To: seowulf
"As I recall in reading about indo-european language history, the region where Tocharian was spoken was in the neighboring province to the west of Gansu. Tocharian being one of the more ancient indo-european languages. "

Yes. Tocharian A & B is an ancient and extinct language and is most closely related to ancient Celtic.

"I also remember something about some archeological finds of tall red haired men wearing tartan kilts near here. I believe there are also some blue eyed Chinese in this area as well today. "

Yes again. Below is a link to a post that covers this subject. Also, The Han emperors green eyes were lamented in many Chinese poems. And, their magic men were reported to have had red hair.

The Curse Of The Red-Headed Mummy

"None of these things fit well with "official" Chinese history, however."

Correct. I've spent some time studying this area and I'm about ready to declare that at one time there were more Caucasian types in China than there were Chinese as we know them today. I've already said that I would Be the least suprised if/when they open the tomb of the first emperor, a tall red-headed guy is found.

13 posted on 09/12/2004 6:19:35 PM PDT by blam
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To: SunkenCiv
Bricks with molded designs unearthed in Chongqing

www.chinaview.cn 2004-01-12 20:52:43

CHONGQING, Jan. 12 (Xinhuanet) -- Archaeologists in southwest China's Chongqing municipality have unearthed more than 20 pieces of brick reliefs from a tomb of the Eastern Han Dynasty (25 A.D.-220 A.D.).

Lin Bizhong, a noted archaeologist with the Chongqing MunicipalArchaeological Team, said this was the first time that bricks withmolded designs had been unearthed in Chongqing.

Previously, such tomb bricks had been excavated from Sichuan province, southwest China, and have been included as relics under state key protection.

Lin acknowledged that the brick-and-stone-structured tomb, from which brick reliefs were unearthed, had been robbed, so they did not find anything valuable in the tomb besides the bricks.

Designs on the bricks include horse-drawn carriages accompaniedby honor guards, the image of Fuxi, or the sun god in ancient China, and images of high-nosed and hollow-eyed people, who might be from varied ethnic groups or foreigners.

According to experts, designs of horse-drawn carriages with honor guards indicated that the tomb owner was of high social status, bricks with the image of Fuxi were important materials forstudying religion and culture at that time, and the images of foreigners reflected cultural exchanges between the East and West in Eastern Han dynasty.

Moreover, archaeologists also found traces of red color on these bricks and held that might be traces of color painting. End item

14 posted on 09/12/2004 6:33:27 PM PDT by blam
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To: Old Professer
"I know horses; just about the time you get them trained to the pot, they leave home and take up with loose mares."

Would it be correct to call them nightmares?

15 posted on 09/12/2004 6:37:46 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

"All-night" mares.


16 posted on 09/12/2004 6:54:42 PM PDT by Old Professer (The enemy is among us; he is us; we know it, we dare not say it - someone will be offended.)
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To: blam

Apologies to Willie Nelson.


17 posted on 09/12/2004 6:55:21 PM PDT by Old Professer (The enemy is among us; he is us; we know it, we dare not say it - someone will be offended.)
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To: blam

BTTT


18 posted on 09/12/2004 6:55:59 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: blam

So what happened to the Caucasian / Celts? Wiped out, didn't procreate as fast, driven West, didn't like the smell 0f Chinese cooking?


19 posted on 09/12/2004 7:00:09 PM PDT by Henchman (Demand an inquiry by the media into Kerry's dealing with the VC in PARIS!)
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To: blam

Great. The face of Kerry's progeny shows up in China.


20 posted on 09/12/2004 7:05:42 PM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: blam
Ancient Pot With Horse-Taming Picture Discovered

And on the other side of the pot the word "Glue"?

21 posted on 09/12/2004 7:09:37 PM PDT by searchandrecovery (Socialist America - diseased and dysfunctional.)
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To: Henchman
"So what happened to the Caucasian / Celts? Wiped out, didn't procreate as fast, driven West, didn't like the smell 0f Chinese cooking?"

There are records of the Han that the Yuezhi were split, the Greater Yuezhi allied with the Han and the Lesser Yuezhi were driven back west. Most were eventually assimilated. The Chinese skeletons did not begin appearing in the region until around 100-200BC. The Uyghurs adopted the reconstructed image (known as 'The Beauty Of Loulan') of one of the mummies as the mother of their country and her image is now on their money and etc. The great wall was built to keep these people out of China...the wall didn't keep anyone out.

22 posted on 09/12/2004 7:16:26 PM PDT by blam
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To: Henchman
Genghis Khan was rumored to have carried red hair and green eyes.

Paul Ratchnevsky quoted the contemporary Chinese Zhao Hong as saying that Genghis Khan differed from other Tartars in that he was tall and had long beard, and quoted Marco Polo as saying that Khubilai did have black hair but fair complexion 'ringed with red'. Rashid ad-Din, in 'Collected Chronicles', said that Genghis Khan was amazed to see that Khubilai had black hair while the rest of their family had red hair and said his grandson must have taken 'his old uncles' features.
Genghis Khan belonged to the Borjigid clan which was a branch of the Kiyats to which the Jurchens (Jurchids), Changsi'ut and the Kiyat-Sayar also belonged.
The importance of the Borjigids lies in the legend that after the death of Dobun-mergen, the alleged ancestress Alan-ko bore Bodunchar after being visited by a strange 'golden glittering man'. Rashid ad-Din alluded to a foreign origin of the visitor and described him as having red hair and blue-green eyes.

Paul Ratchnevsky speculated that the mysterious visitor could be a Kirghiz since the Kirghiz people were said to be tall and possessed red hair and green eyes.
Note that Rashid ad-Din's writings came from secondary sources and rumors and that Yuan Shi (History of Yuan Dynasty) only recorded that Bodunchar had grey eyes against the chestnut-colored eyes of his brothers and half-brothers. Nothing is mentioned of hair or skin of Bodunchar or Genghis Khan."

23 posted on 09/12/2004 7:31:28 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

Most interesting.


24 posted on 09/12/2004 7:34:41 PM PDT by Ciexyz ("FR, best viewed with a budgie on hand".)
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To: Old Professer
How the Chinese acquired the Heavenly Horses
25 posted on 09/12/2004 7:39:43 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

BLESS YOU BLAM. Love this stuff.


26 posted on 09/12/2004 8:02:03 PM PDT by Henchman (Demand an inquiry by the media into Kerry's dealing with the VC in PARIS!)
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To: Henchman

The Beauty Of Loulan

Cherchen Man and a swastika emblem from these ancient sites.

27 posted on 09/12/2004 8:48:03 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

She is a beauty! Interesting that the Swastika, defiled by the NAZIs, is / was a some what universal symbol


28 posted on 09/12/2004 9:30:23 PM PDT by Henchman (Demand an inquiry by the media into Kerry's dealing with the VC in PARIS!)
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To: blam

Thanks BLAM. As a numismatist of sorts, I gotta get me some of that pinup currency!


29 posted on 09/12/2004 9:53:31 PM PDT by Henchman (Demand an inquiry by the media into Kerry's dealing with the VC in PARIS!)
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To: blam
I've already said that I would Be the least suprised if/when they open the tomb of the first emperor, a tall red-headed guy is found.

I think that is probably a good assumption. People tend to think that late neolithic/early bronze age peoples did not move between regions frequently. In fact, they were probably better travelled than most modern humans.

It seems that this region has been a good area to be from for thousands of years. Seljuk and Ottoman Turks, the Huns, Mongols, and maybe Caucasians even further back, seem to have come from this area. This is based on both archeological and philological studies. I am very intrigued by how these two separate areas of study tend to support the idea of a caucasian/celtic population in western China in the late neolithic period.

By the way, I'm an interested amateur in this area. I have been fascinated by prehistoric migrations and ancient languages since I was a young child. I try to catch your posts whenever I can. Very interesting.
30 posted on 09/13/2004 1:43:06 PM PDT by seowulf
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To: CWOJackson

I was expecting a picture of a stoned horse.


31 posted on 09/13/2004 1:50:26 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: blam

I wonder about these recents finds in China, they're coming too thick and fast recently, gets my spidey-sense tingling -- are the Chinese trying hard to emphasise their middle-kingdom status?


32 posted on 09/14/2004 12:02:47 AM PDT by Cronos (W2K4)
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To: blam

I'm sorry blam, I would respectfully disagree with the theory that Caucasians originated from what is now part of Western China. Caucasians would have arisen from the swathe of land from the Black sea to the Eastern edges of the steppes in Central Asia, but any finds in the Gobi or beyond would have been just forays or foraging parties.


33 posted on 09/14/2004 12:08:28 AM PDT by Cronos (W2K4)
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To: blam; seowulf
Yes. Tocharian A & B is an ancient and extinct language and is most closely related to ancient Celtic.

I don't know -- as per the chart below, Tocharian is as related to GErmanic, hittite, Indic, Irani languages as it is to Celtic -- it's just another branch of the Indo-European langauge family

34 posted on 09/14/2004 12:12:48 AM PDT by Cronos (W2K4)
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To: blam
The great wall was built to keep these people out of China...the wall didn't keep anyone out.

Wasn't the wall meant to keep the northern nomads out -- the western ones would be restricted by the Gobi.
35 posted on 09/14/2004 12:14:45 AM PDT by Cronos (W2K4)
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To: Henchman
Interesting that the Swastika, defiled by the NAZIs, is / was a some what universal symbol

Well, it is an ancient Aryan/Indo-European symbol --> not really shared by other 'races'. However, it has been defiled by the austrian madman
36 posted on 09/14/2004 12:15:58 AM PDT by Cronos (W2K4)
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To: seowulf
caucasian/celtic population

Hi SEowulf --> Celts ARE Caucasians, of the branch of Caucasian known as Indo-Europeans/Aryans. Other Caucasian branches are the SEmitic and Dravidian branches. Other branches of the Aryan family are Slavic, Indic, Irani, Latin, Greek etc.
37 posted on 09/14/2004 12:17:55 AM PDT by Cronos (W2K4)
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To: Cronos
"I don't know -- as per the chart below, Tocharian is as related to GErmanic, hittite, Indic, Irani languages as it is to Celtic -- it's just another branch of the Indo-European langauge family"

Can't argue...I'm just quoting Victor Mair and Elizabeth Barber.

38 posted on 09/14/2004 4:43:29 AM PDT by blam
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To: Cronos
"I'm sorry blam, I would respectfully disagree with the theory that Caucasians originated from what is now part of Western China. Caucasians would have arisen from the swathe of land from the Black sea to the Eastern edges of the steppes in Central Asia, but any finds in the Gobi or beyond would have been just forays or foraging parties."

I'm not firmly committed to this idea. I am prepared to see some old assumptions about origins fall though.

39 posted on 09/14/2004 4:45:38 AM PDT by blam
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To: Cronos

Cronos,

Charts are, afterall, just a representation of scholars' best conjecture. Some past linquists have declared Tocharian to be a Celtic language based on word and grammar similarities between Italic and Celtic. I believe most linguists today don't go quite so far, but they do associate the word and grammar similarities more closely with European language groups (Greek, Armenian, Baltic among others).

Remember, there is no existing language today called Proto-Indo-European, and there are no written records of that language. It has been reconstructed by examining word similarities between related languages. The closer the match, the later the languages split from one another. Tocharian A and B show a very ancient relationship with European languages and later influence by Indic languages.

It is still not a settled question and may never be, but it is interesting none the less.


40 posted on 09/15/2004 6:57:50 PM PDT by seowulf
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To: Cronos

Yes, Celts are Caucasian. I just didn't want to sound like I was saying Celtic to the exclusion of other Caucasians.

Based on language (if you define a Caucasian as being someone who is descended from speakers of Proto-Indo-European), I don't believe Semites are would be included. Semitic languages are not related.


41 posted on 09/15/2004 7:09:11 PM PDT by seowulf
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To: seowulf
if you define a Caucasian as being someone who is descended from speakers of Proto-Indo-European

Actually Caucasian is more a racial term than a linguistic. By that basis, SEmites, Dravidians and Indo-Europeans are all Caucasians. SOmeone descended from the speakers of proto-Indo-European I'd call Aryan. And I think its about time we liberated a description like that from it's abuse by the nutzis
42 posted on 09/16/2004 1:01:31 AM PDT by Cronos (W2K4)
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To: Cronos

Another definition of Caucasian is someone from the Caucasus region. On balance the evidence shows the earliest speakers of P-I-E were probably from the Caucasus.

The 19th century racial, i.e. skin color based, definition I agree should be scrapped. It makes much more sense to base a description of groups of human beings on language and common cultural and ethnic traits.


43 posted on 09/16/2004 6:27:28 PM PDT by seowulf
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To: seowulf
19th century racial, i.e. skin color based,
well actually it's a bit deeper than that -- it is based more on physiognomy, not on skin color -- or else Southern Italians would be considered a different race from Nordics
44 posted on 09/17/2004 12:33:23 AM PDT by Cronos (W2K4)
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45 posted on 04/08/2006 12:39:38 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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46 posted on 04/30/2006 3:21:25 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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domestication of horse site:freerepublic.com
Google

47 posted on 04/17/2009 1:17:41 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
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48 posted on 04/17/2009 1:18:03 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: blam

Previously, only ancient painted pottery with images of donkeys,sheep, dogs and pigs had been found in China.

Conclusion: No Muslims in China at this time.


49 posted on 04/17/2009 1:19:38 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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