Can anybody help me uderstand the thinking of pro-choicers? (vanity)

[RogueIsland]

This is a serious question. I am posting it because I have come to the conclusion that I quite literally do not have the neural wiring to even conceive of the pro-choice point of view and I need it explained to me. I know many intelligent, otherwise decent people who are passionate about the "right" to abortion. Some of them will even concede that the fetus is a human being and they still favor abortion-on-demand.

I simply can't grasp this. Not all of these people are simply selfish. Some of them seem deeply committed to this on a philosophical level and even a Constitutional level (although the ludicrous Roe aside, how the Constitution can be construed in this fashion is simply beyond me -- at best all you can say is it is silent on the subject of anything but state-sponsored execution).

So what's the deal here? What "nuance" am I missing that these seemingly intelligent people appear to grasp? I can usually at least intellectually understand those I disagree with on political issues -- this one utterly eludes me however.

[SonnyBubba]

If a woman has a right to an abortion because she has control over her own body, then why is prostitution not
legal? After all, doesn't a woman have control to do what she pleases with body? Pose this question to a liberal
and you will get blank stares.

[Clint N. Suhks]

The evidence doesn't support you.

More on Illegal Abortion Myths

[Skooz]

I local RN made the point that few women would be so deranged as to ram a coathanger into their womb.

Like I said: Not one confirmed case. Not one.

That is not attempting to prove a negative. It is simple medical fact.

[Clint N. Suhks]

Good one, I'll try that next time on my sister.

[ebersole]

"Folks who think of abortion as killing will never understand the pro-choice position, as evidenced by many of the posts. Pro-choice doesn't equal pro-abortion; I don't care for abortion, but I am pro-choice"

I agree. I'm not sure how many people posting tonight have been in the situation where they had an unexpected pregnancy. I can speak from experience. I was 20 and in my sophomore year of college on a full athletic scholarship. There were many serious choices to be made (and please don't lecture on pre-marital sex and yes, I was using birth control); give up a full-ride scholarship, continue with school while raising a child by yourself, have an abortion and no one (beside you and God) would be the wiser? These are gut wrenching and life altering decisions which are not taken lightly. I don't think I'm any better than the next woman/child who was or will be in that position because I have a happy and healthy 14 year old son. I have a very difficult time judging someone else's situation and the choices they are forced to make at any given time in their life

[who_would_fardels_bear]

The "viability argument" is not so convincing. If a mother wishes her baby to come to term, and it is harmed, even in the first or second trimester, then the person who harms the baby can be arrested and/or sued.

If a fetus is not viable until the third trimester, then why is this so?

Typical liberal inconsistency and hyprocrisy perhaps?

[Mr. Mojo]

The "third trimester" line is not entirely "arbitrary", as you seem to believe. It marks the approximate time that the fetus has a decent chance of surviving outside the womb:

Operative words highlighted, of course. Should the life or death of a human rest on an appromixation?

[swilhelm73]

Before we get into evidence, I want to know if we agree in principle. If my argument is true (there are better alternatives to criminalization), then should we keep abortion legal and make it rare? If you agree with me on that, there's no use getting into evidence because it won't convince you anyway.

There are two elements central to the argument of what should be done in regards to crime within a society, and the first element most particularly important for heinous crimes such as homicide.

1) How do we best prevent the crime from occuring?

2) No matter how throughly we seek to prevent crime, it will still occur. How then do we best punish the guilty?

Our society has made an overwhelmingly strong case, both in rhetoric and practice, in how to deal with homicide in general. Yet you resist this record for some reason in regards to one particular case of homicide in favor of some yet unnamed alternative.

[Ichneumon]

My problem with that is the arbirtrary line. Why does it magically bacome a human at 6 months? What is the quantifiable nature of the nervous system at this point that make it different at this moment at time from an hour previous?

Why does it magically become a human at conception? What is the quantifiable nature of the molecular arrangement at this point that makes it different at this moment in time from an hour previously?

Why is a combined egg/sperm a human life, while the egg and sperm moments before contact (presumably) is not?

Which particular step, in the complicated multi-step process of fertilization, crosses over the line to become "human life" instead of "an egg colliding with a sperm"?

Why does choosing to not have sex on a particular night not count as destruction of the child which would otherwise have resulted?

Is an acorn an oak tree?

When does a cold mixture of sugar, eggs, and milk become ice cream?

Reality is seldom as simple as either-or.

[Clint N. Suhks]

It's also the lifeline of a baby. It's "their" body alright, Mom's and Baby's body. THEIR body.

Exactly...

How can they say it's "their" body when there clearly are two. Once they spread their legs they give up that right over "their body".

[RecallMoran]

Actually, the number of women killed or made sterile by legal abortions is far higher than those killed or made sterile by illegal abortions. It's illegal in many states to have minor surgery any where but a hospital but there is virtually no regulation for abortion clinics. Ironically, when I miscarried I had to have the procedure in the hospital but had the baby been alive, I could have had it anywhere.

[Ichneumon]

If a woman has a right to an abortion because she has control over her own body, then why is prostitution not legal? After all, doesn't a woman have control to do what she pleases with body? Pose this question to a liberal and you will get blank stares.

Don't overgeneralize. Large numbers would respond that yes, a woman *should* be free to make that choice.

[jamndad5]

You got me!
I've never been able to understand it either.

[conservative cat]

All 3 of my pregnancies were "accidents" (and yes I know what causes it. LOL) My first I was also 20 and in college and mortified. I ended up choosing life and my son is almost 10. My second, I was married to the father of my son but he turned out to be abusive and mean and I contemplated having an abortion because I was so scared of being trapped with him. We talked it through, and I couldn't in good conscience do it. My daughter is 7. The last was while I was still married (but separated) and was scared of how everyone would react (family, coworkers, etc). If I had the baby, everyone would know. If I didn't, only God and I would know. I figured that was pretty major. My youngest is 11 months. I am not proud of those moments, but I can understand how they can happen. I don't think abortion is the right answer, though.

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

Question:"Can anybody help me uderstand the thinking of pro-choicers?"

Response: The question assumes that there is "thought." Perhaps it is merely lust without consequence.