Posted on 11/05/2004 6:57:08 PM PST by Jack Black
I see an unalterable divide. I really suggest everyone here go to Democratic Underground (where we are not allowed to post, per their rules) and read what they are saying. Expect a lot of anger, profanity, anti-religous bigotry and hatred. See a lot of mischaracterization of who we are and what we believe.
I see this divide as somewhat permanant. On a personal level people can and do change. In my experience getting people to either become involved in the shooting sports or going to church and over time their politics are going to change. I run a discussion group that is mixed liberals and conservatives and there has been movement to our side, in a few cases dramatic movement.
But this is change at the margins. In general I feel the lines are hardening, not softening. It may even be that there are some pretty big internal population shifts going on. In my own case I left California a decade ago to escape the new, liberal driven anti-gun agenda. More recently I moved from Oregon to southern Washington to remove myself from the absurd tax jurisdiction. This may be happening more and more, "red" people moving to "red" states. (Jeff, I don't think you can reclaim Blue, sorry).
The elected national Republicans are at least subliminally aware of this. Spectors recent comments are reality, he's the only one blunt enough to serve it up. They don't want to be put in the position of fighting tough battles in the culture war. Most of them have no interest in rolling back Socialism in America.
We don't know how much Bush wants to push for this, either. We won, but only by 3%. Pushing back against some leftist programs that are well established could easily result in a 3% shift. Bush has been smart to put together this majority. A great job. But like our majority in the Senate, it is wobbly in the middle.
On the other hand there are many activists out here, and I'd put myself in this category, who are somewhat exhausted of working to deliver power to Republicans and not seeing much of substance come out of it. In fact the Prescription Drug program, another huge entitlement and a big block in the ongoing Socialist conversion of America (and medicine) was delivered by OUR GUYS. That really hurts.
So the Dems have some hard medicine to swallow today, but we may have more to swallow in the next 2 to 4 years as we see Bush struggle to maintain a majority coalition and address the concerns of the base.
The facts are, a lot of these issues are not grey-grey. They are somewhat black and white. And in most cases despite all these Republican gains the Liberal status quo is in force, in law.
Abortion is legal, by dint of judicial activism.
Taxes are high, very high for high income earners, and even small cuts are met with demagogury from the left and left-media. Abominations like "earned income tax credit", a direct transfer payment to selected favored working poor is the law of the land. Bush's tax cuts were only passed with a time out provision.
Spending is out of control. Lots of liberal causes are directly funded. We pay to shoot ourselves in the foot. Again demagogury is the order of the day if anything is even proposed to be cut.
The large entitlements are structurally unsound. The Dem plan to fix them is "tax the rich" .. accelerating the transition to a Euro-socialist model. So far the Republican alternatives, again designed to split the difference and not offend, are subject to lies and distortions.
Affirmative action, absurd eco regulations, endangered species laws, activist judges, obviously illegal campaign finance laws, removal of God from the national heritage, the entire New Deal, public universities as Marxist training facilities, the list goes on and on.
All accomplished fact. What many of us want is a 'velvet revolution' that rolls this back. I have little hope in seeing it happen, even after the work and the great victory we have just won.
We are a nation with two radically different visions. Alignment with them is along a continuim, some all the way Red, some hard Blue and most between the two poles. My sense is many are moving away from the center.
Certainly many of my friends are moving towards the Red Pole. Less acceptance of the status quo. Less willingness to put up with NY Times lies. But all this is not, to date, resulting in real changes for the better in my life. Every time I go to the desert there is more closed land, land that is already so empty it is probably less visited today then it was 100 years ago. Taxes keep going up, spending keeps going up.
How this is resolved I do not know. Paul Wyrich suggested conservatives "have lost" and we withdraw from the political process. (He speaks for Christian conservatives in particular) ... that we build alternative institutions. Thats not realistic. Blue Staters will tax us, regulate us and eventually convict us with impunity.
The Free State Project, which has made many mistakes along the way at least poses a great challenge in their motto: "Liberty in our Lifetime". It's a goal I can sign onto with gusto. I'm skeptical I shall live to see even a small part of it achieved.
I don't think I'm rigid. I voted for Bush, who is imperfect, but way better than the alternative. I don't think every aspect of my pet causes can be implemented. But honestly, you have Bush creating huge new entitlement programs. Just for the sake of conversation, now that we have bragging rights and total control of the government, what do you expect to actualy be accomplished? That's my point.
"...what do you expect to actualy be accomplished?"
I expect a new generation on the judiciary and so does every other conservative. If this isn't achieved, then there WILL be defection in the ranks.
Other wish list items pale in comparison.
Is it any wonder one of their prime objectives is to disarm the American people?
We've got the Presidency, both Houses of Congress, most governorships including some in blue states. They've got the judiciary, the enrite legal establishment, the media, the entertainment industry, education, Specters and Hatches, heck, even Business Week. Who did you say was winning the culture wars now?
Bump
I know I was there..
Good idea too...
You seem somewhat dispirited...
Welcome to freeRepublic...
About the only place I know of where your ideas can be challenged and/or accepted in a decent enviorment. Not everyone agrees on everything and they should'nt.. I think you may of found an internet home.. I like what you posted and should be well recieved here. Jim Robinsons living room is a healthy place to be.. Take your shoes off and relax.. if your feet are fairly clean.. d;-'
2000 years ago or Now..?..
2000 years ago he surrounded himself with teenagers not effected by clergy.. He did'nt much like the clergy in an apostate age.. This apostate age is about the same.. What is it that YOU think the current updated Jesus might do.? You don't really think Jesus is stupid or blind or Dialectic materialistic(socialism) do you ?..
Fair enough question.
I don't think a modern day Jesus would be spending much time with the Pharisees. I take a look at individuals such as Mary Magdalene as being examples of the people that Jesus reached out to.
I think we're fortunate enough to have people who do actually believe in the Gospel and do live their lives in accordance with Jesus' teachings. The ones I personally tend to admire and identify with are the missionaries.
I do not believe that Jesus was or is stupid or blind. Quite the contrary; when I finally converted (as an adult) I'd have to say that it was the more intellectual aspects of Christ's ministry that finally won me over. Our lord and savior was not and is not a fool. Nor was he or is he a wimp.
Would Christ embrace socialism? Seems to me that Jesus would have a hard time embracing a de facto religion that has as one of it's apparent tenets the replacement of God with the state.
On the other hand, I do think that Jesus would (and is) working awful hard to seek out and turn individuals towards grace.
My personal answer to the question I posed to you last night. FYI.
Could you either post here or freepmail me with info about those dialogues? I could Google but my computer just got back from being fixed, and it'll take me a while to set it up with virus/spyware protection (I'm a complete techno-idiot) so I can't go anywhere except FR for a while.
I am considering starting a pinglist on the topic of moral absolutes and this sounds right up my alley. I already do a pinglist (with another freeper) about the homosexual agenda, but I want one that is wider in scope.
Freegards,
lj
Yes, but Jesus exhorted them to change their ways and their hearts. He didn't say "There, there, continue on your downward slide, you're fine as you are".
Remeber the "go and sin no more" stuff?
Just read your other post describing your spiritual views and that clarified it for me. I don't think we disagree.
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