War Unwinnable In Face Of Renewed German Offensive

Transterrestrial Musings ^ | December 17th, 2004 | Rand Simberg

[gridlock]

We lost three times as many in a day in December 1944 than we have in three years in Iraq.

[xkaydet65]

I mention this whenever I see one of these interesting what might have been threads. CBS News anchor Charles Osgood has written a memoir about growing up in Baltimore during WWII. In a book talk at a B & N in Baltimore, seen on CSPAN, he was asked how coverage of the war in Iraq was different from WWII. He responded that if the press had covered WWII the way it covered Vietnam and Iraq, WWII would have been far far more difficult to win. His tone was NOT one of approval of today's media.

He backed his claim with some facts about coverage. For instance it was not until Summer '43 that any photo of American dead was seen by the public. Censorship was practiced, but mostly it was self censorship by reporters who put the war effort ahead of their careers or politics. Facts such as the clear technical superiority of German armor were never reported in the press. And clear blunders of leadership were overlooked.

This from a CBS fixture of three decades.

[notigar]

yeah, except nobody said the germans would welcome us.

[Turbo Pig]

How about the fact that we DID NOT HAVE THE BEST PLANES at the start of the war? ....

Are you saying that we went to war with the Army we had, and not the one we wnated? Shocking...complety shocking!!!

[Beckwith]

Did we lose more American soldiers after the war with Germany ended?

Yes.

[Mr. Lucky]

Your intended implication is what? That the war on terror has ended?

[Paul_Denton]

"We'll win this war, but we'll win it only by fighting and by showing the Germans that we've got more guts than they have; or ever will have. We're not going to just shoot the sons-of-b*tches, we're going to rip out their living Godd*mned guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy Hun c*cksuckers by the bushel-f*cking-basket. War is a bloody, killing business. You've got to spill their blood, or they will spill yours. Rip them up the belly. Shoot them in the guts. When shells are hitting all around you and you wipe the dirt off your face and realize that instead of dirt it's the blood and guts of what once was your best friend beside you, you'll know what to do!" -- George S. Patton

I LOVE that quote!! We really could use someing like him today against terrorists. The PC bullsh!t is costing our troops. The terrorists only reespect force. If the terrorists destroy one building, a city in an islamic state goes. If they destroy a city here, than we nuke the whole middle east.

[Paul_Denton]

Let's see. December 17th, 1944... That was before the end of "major combat operations" in Europe, right? Before the military declared, "Mission accomplished"? Did we lose more American soldiers after the war with Germany ended?

Yes. There were Germans who were doing the same things (except maybie suicide bombing) that Baathists are doing now. Fanatics that just do not accept the fact that they were defeated.

[Polybius]

"The FDR Administration is also trying to explain why American forces do not have the best armor protection possible on all vehicles after three years have passed since Pearl Harbor.

American Sherman tanks are so lightly armored that they have an unpleasant tendency to burst into flames when hit: in dark humour it is sometimes called a ‘Ronson’ (after the cigarette lighter) by its crews or ‘Tommy cooker’ by the Germans.

As every smoker in Europe knows, the Ronson lighter 'Lights the First Time, Every Time'. "

[Crusher138]

Actually, from what I have read in old newspapers and magazines from that time, we were taking casualties from attacks by former soldier and civilians in Germany into the 1950's.

Same thing with Japanese soldiers in the Pacific theater. Many soldiers wouldn't believe that the war could possibly be over and kept fighting.

From the mouth of my cousin who has been stationed in Iraq and came home last month - the VAST majority of the Iraqis (90%+) are glad we are there and are looking forward to the elections. They are mad that Iran and Syria are sending in fighters. He brought home gifts from grateful Iraqis and still corresponds with some he became friends with.

If you don't count the deaths caused by accidents, the number of post major operations casualties drops by about 20%. It is actually pretty comparable to post-WWII casualties...

BTW, there was one article I remember from 1945 that was talking about AWOL soldiers in Europe. They estimated that between 6000 and 10,000 soldiers were AWOL two months after VE day. Guess they didn't support the war effort, eh?

It is pretty obvious that the press can make a war popular or not. In this time, with this war, they have decided to talk it down at every opportunity. If you had a speck of sense you would look at the situation objectively, compare it to other historical conflicts, gain some perspective, and THEN form an opinion.

[PresbyRev]

This is satire and not a genuine article from 1944 given the 2004 copyright date?

[AppyPappy]

Patton was relieved and sent to a 'doghouse' for slapping two soldiers.

Patton slapped two men who had been in battle. That didn't sit well with the front-line troops who considered him a tyranical prima-donna REMF.

[You Dirty Rats]

The real problem wasn't the War; it was that Roosevelt entered the War with no plan to win the peace.

[NonZeroSum]

Yes, it is satire.

[Turbo Pig]

That was before the end of "major combat operations" in Europe, right? Before the military declared, "Mission accomplished"?

The current mission was accomplished (ousting Saddam), and a new one was taken up (rebuilding Iraq). Keeping the WWII motif, bi***ing about the Mission Accomplished episode is like bi***ing about saying the mission was accomplished in taking Tarawa, or North Africa, or any other number of smaller missions that made up the whole of WWII

[Professional Engineer]

Funny and sad at the same time.

[PetroniDE]

YOU SCARED ME FOR A SECOND !!!

[PetroniDE]

If Germany ever decides to invade France again, we tell the French "start learning German" .....

[ohioman]

Go back to your hole you anti-war wussy.

[snippy_about_it]

We can certainly blame Harry for some of the social ills we still have today!