Posted on 12/22/2004 7:05:54 AM PST by Graybeard58
With all the accolades heaped on Robert Ziegler last night, it looked at times like his bosses were giving him a commendation rather than firing him.
Robert Ziegler, right, hugs Papillion-La Vista High Principal Jim Glover after being fired by the district's school board Tuesday.
Ziegler, 24, a Papillion-La Vista High School math teacher, was described as a "a marvelous young man," "an asset to the community," "honest, candid, capable."
"I hope my son can turn out to be as fine a gentleman as Mr. Ziegler," said Rick Black, an assistant superintendent for the Papillion-La Vista schools.
But Ziegler's bosses also said he repeatedly disobeyed their orders to stop preaching and start teaching.
Black and two other administrators said Ziegler had repeatedly talked about his personal religious beliefs in class, triggering complaints from students and a parent, and would not stop, even after his bosses told him it could cost him his job.
After taking testimony from the administrators and from Ziegler for two hours and 40 minutes Tuesday night, the Papillion-La Vista School Board voted 6-0 to terminate Ziegler's teaching contract on grounds of insubordination and unprofessional conduct.
Board President Valerie Fisher said the evidence was "clear." The board deliberated about 50 minutes.
Afterward, Ziegler said he would not challenge the decision in court. He did not have a lawyer, and he called no witnesses.
About 75 people - including some of his family members from the Riverton, Neb., area - attended the special hearing, which Ziegler requested to plead his case to the board.
Ziegler was a second-year teacher who got his bachelor's degree from Bethel College in Mishawaka, Ind. Bethel is an evangelical Christian college affiliated with the Missionary Church.
At the hearing, he told board members that his case was their opportunity to "make a stand for God."
"You're either for him or against him" he said.
Ziegler said that as a teacher he saw 120 students a day, many with "issues and worries" that were barriers to learning. By giving up their cares to Jesus, the students would be free to learn, he said.
The district's lawyer, Kelley Baker, however, asserted that the law clearly prohibits teachers from imposing their religious beliefs on students and from praying with or in the presence of them.
In a legal brief for the board, Baker wrote that school districts that fail to stop improper practices regarding religion can be held liable for a teacher's actions.
"School administrators have both the right and the obligation to direct teachers not to engage in such activity during school, and to stop it if they are already engaging in it," Baker wrote.
Jerry Kalina, an assistant principal at the high school, testified that a co-teacher from Ziegler's classroom first reported Oct. 4 that Ziegler was talking to students about his religious beliefs in class.
Ziegler was told to stop, but the co-teacher reported on Nov. 1 that he was doing it again, Kalina said.
A few days later, a student came to Kalina's office and said Ziegler was talking about his faith and that it upset her, Kalina said. The student said Ziegler had stopped her in the hall and asked if he could pray for her. She told him she felt uncomfortable while he prayed.
The girl's mother complained on Nov. 8 that she expected her daughter to learn math, not religion, in the class, Kalina said.
Kalina said he again told Ziegler to stop.
He said Ziegler was encouraged to talk to his minister and to contact former Cornhuskers receivers coach Ron Brown to get advice on how to juggle his beliefs and his teaching duties.
On Nov. 16, a student again raised the issue of Ziegler speaking about religion in class, Kalina said. The student said Ziegler wrote on the board "What inspires you to love people?" and another time "If you were to die today, what would you put on your tombstone, and why?"
The next day, a teacher reported that a student was not doing well in algebra because she felt uncomfortable asking Ziegler for help, Kalina said.
Ziegler was placed on administrative leave, with pay, on Nov. 18.
Kalina testified that he would "absolutely" like to have Ziegler back in the classroom, but only if he met one condition: "That he stop talking about Jesus Christ."
"My opinion is Mr. Ziegler was hired to teach math," he said. "And math instruction must come first."
Ziegler testified that his faith was too strong to set it aside.
"What they are telling me to do is in direct contradiction to what my authority, my God, is telling all believers to do," Ziegler said.
He admitted that on some days he spent up to 10 minutes per class discussing religion, though school officials said they had reports of longer periods.
Jim Glover, the principal at Papillion-La Vista High School, said Ziegler wasn't the first teacher he'd seen with strong beliefs.
"Over the last 32 years, there have been a number who have struggled as Rob has struggled. All were able to eventually make the separation," he said.
School board member Jim Thompson said that in eight years on the board, the hearing was the "toughest" meeting he'd attended.
Thompson said he hoped Ziegler could find a teaching job where professing his faith is "not only legal, but encouraged."
Cassie Young, 16, a student in one of Ziegler's pre-algebra classes, was among several students who left the hearing teary-eyed after the board announced its decision.
Young said the decision was "one more way of kicking God out of school."
"The law of man is wrong, and one day everyone will know that," she said.
"You know, I know nothing more about the class performance on tests than you do. However, we do know that one child was hesitant to speak to him about receiving help because of him using religion frequently."
But that lack of evidence of a negative impact is material, that he spoke for up to 10 minutes is not. He could just as easily ahve spoken on football.
It is clearly the fact that he spoke on religion in a positive way that instigated the complaints against him nothing else. Not student performance, nothing else but that he shared his faith.
And that Christians go along with this persecution is really incredible.
Uh, don't you believe in contracts? Dude, when you get a job, you are forming a contract with your employer. You obey the rules and you work. You disobey the rules and you are unemployed. Dude.
:)
On a daily basis. That is a lot more than simply the "10 minutes" you stated he was fired for. Not to mention the prowling in the halls ...
So, why do you teach your children he was bisexual when you have no proof of such?
Uh, cornering students in the hallway and instigating unwelcome prayer sessions? But we know that you have lied about this from the beginning so I don't expect you to own up now.
This is true. However, we are the people that are the first to point out that the concept of "separation of church and state" is not a government doctrine, but was merely mentioned by President Jefferson in a letter to the Danbury Baptist Association. We, therefore, should also not make arguments based upon concepts set forth in other presidential letters, even if they are friendlier to our way of thinking.
What is good for the goose is good for the gander. And, the fact that we are fair in our arguments is what sets FReepers apart from the folks at DU.
Just like when you argued that he was answering a student's question, you are making facts up out of thin air. Nowhere in the article does it say that he only spoke about religion for 10 minutes.
Assume the fact are as the paper reported. I know that may not always be the case, but that is all you and I have to go on. And until I have information that contradicts that, either from another media source or, at least, from someone in that community that knows more about the situation than we do, I am going to base my thoughts on the facts at hand.
There are thousands of scenarios that could be made up to support either one of our sides. But the fact is, we only know what is reported in this article.
Only if you're willing to say that pagan imagery, promotion of Islam, secularist anti-values, and the rest foisted on innocent children in the name of 'diversity' or 'environmentalism' must also be removed. If they aren't, then he shouldn't be going anywhere, either. Ideally, the government schools would teach a 'values-neutral' curriculum reflecting the sort of Protestant ethic known in the time of the founders, with added tolerance for Catholicism, even Islam, and assorted unpopular denominations that may no longer even exist. But they would teach strictly the three r's. Teachers bored by simply that, who preferred more, would indeed be fired. But we're SO FAR from anything close to that, where Islam is even actively taught to impressionable kids AFTER 9/11 in these same schools, that not only should you say he should NOT be fired, but that they desperately need to hire many more of the same! Such are the times.
Both Islam and Christianity, along with the other religions should be taught in schools. Just not in the math classes. And students should be free from the attacks of zealots as the go from class to class.
NO, he's there to teach math, not religion. What does, "WHAT WOULD YOU WANT ON YOUR TOMBSTONE?" have to do with religion? He doesn't belong in the public school system.
Do you really mean that? Or is it just words? Because if the field is occupied, you can't forfeit the game. Do you go to physics class to hear evolution defended as an inviolate and unassailable creed? Do you allow the children to open their coloring books on crude pagan stickworks hung from the branches of trees? As I said, if the situation is such, you want many MORE of those like him to take the field, and even it up, at the very least.
Merry Christmas!
Pepperoni, Italian sausage, black olives, jalapeños, mushrooms, and some extra cheese.
"Both Islam and Christianity, along with the other religions should be taught in schools"
What on earth are you saying? It is the Christian faith that has been the foundation of our nation not the moon cult. And it is not a matter of teaching anything...it's a matter of a Christian teacher being allowd to say what he wants in his own way. He wasn't fired for not doing a good job teaching Math but rather for expressing his Christian views.
His firing screams hate and a complete ignorance of the constitution.
"Just like when you argued that he was answering a student's question, you are making facts up out of thin air. "
I was refering to a stat that some other people have claimed to have found elsewhere.
If you dont believe me review the posts and you'll likely find it unless you are too closely related to OBB.
Sorry I cant do better than that.
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