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Moses' Comet
Troubled Times/Discovering Archaeology ^ | 8-1999 | Mike Baillie

Posted on 10/09/2005 4:25:36 PM PDT by blam

Moses' Comet

Moses’ Comet, by Mike Baillie
Discovering Archeology, July/August 1999

Moses called down a host of calamities upon Egypt until the pharaoh finally freed the Israelites. Perhaps he had the help of a comet impact coupled with a volcano.
A volcano destroyed the island of Santorini in the Aegean Sea (between today's Greece and Turkey) around the middle of the second millennium B.C. Researchers Val LaMarche and Kathy Hirschboeck suggest the volcano might be associated with tree-ring evidence for several years of intense cold beginning in 1627 B.C.
Could that form the basis for strange meteorological phenomena recorded in the biblical book of Exodus? In the book of Exodus, which describes events a few hundred kilometers from Santorini, we read of a pillar of cloud and fire, a lingering darkness, and the parting of the Red Sea. An enormous column of ash must have hung in the sky over the eruption (the Israelites’ “pillar of cloud by day and fire by night?”), and the volcano doubtless caused a tsunami, or tidal wave (which could have drowned a pharaoh's army).
The Exodus story is traditionally dated to either the thirteenth or fifteenth century B.C. Those dates, however, depend ultimately on identifying the “Pharaoh of the Oppression,” and historians have never proven to which ruler that infamous title referred.
Many biblical scholars will disagree, but I suggest that a seventeenth-century B.C. date is not impossible.

The argument can be bolstered. Equally catastrophic meteorological conditions are recorded in the Bible for the time of King David.
Psalm 18, in reference to David, speaks of terrifying events: “Earth shook and trembled. The foundations of the hills moved and were shaken. ... Smoke ... fire ... darkness ... dark waters ... thick clouds of the skies ... hailstones and coals of fire.” On some chronologies, David is placed 470 years after the Exodus.
The spacing between the two disastrous events recorded in Irish tree rings at 1628 and 1159 B.C. is 469 years. The Exodus story includes dust, several days of darkness, hail, dead fish, undrinkable water, cattle killed by hail, water breaking out of rocks, the earth opening, the sea parting as in a tsunami, and so on.
Someone looking at the Exodus story and knowing descriptions of other distant volcanic effects might offer the possibility that the Israelites escaped from Egypt under the cover of a major natural catastrophe.
There may be veiled references to comets in the biblical narrative, leading to the possibility that the Santorini eruption itself may have been triggered by a bolide (comet or asteroid) impact. David Levy, co-discoverer of the comet that bears his and Jean Shoemaker's names, has argued that the description of the “angel of the Lord in the sky over Jerusalem with a drawn sword” (1 Chronicles 21) could be a reference to a comet.
The Angel of the Lord was, of course, also present at the Exodus, as it was “traveling in front of Israel's army.” Further, there are indications that as the Israelites left Egypt, the night was as bright as midday.
The nights over Europe were reported to have been daytime-bright after the only known modern bolide impact, the Tunguska explosion over Siberia in 1908.

These stories raise the question of whether comets recorded by the Chinese at the start and end of the Shang Dynasty, at very near the same dates, were the same as the comets that may be recorded in the Old Testament.
I believe that we know the answer: In the last five millennia, several dynastic changes and dark ages have been the direct result of impacts and/or volcanoes. The consequences of such events must have been devastating, leading to apocalyptic imagery in religious writing and predictions of the end of the world.
Zachariah of Mitylene lived through the environmental disaster that began about 540 A.D. In the mid-550s, he wrote in his twelve-volume records of the trials the world had survived: “In addition to all the fearful things described above, the earthquakes and famines and wars, ... there has also been fulfilled against us the curse of Moses in Deuteronomy."“ The curse included pestilence, consumption, fever, fiery blasts from the skies, mildew, a rain of powder and dust, and darkness.
The curse of Moses must have seemed an appropriate description of life after the impact of a piece of a comet.

Mike Baillie is a leading dendrochronologist and Professor of Palaeoecology at Queen's University, Belfast, Northern Ireland. His book, Exodus to Arthur, describes in detail his theory of comet encounters and turning points of civilization."


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: catastrophism; comet; exodus; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; mikebaillie; moses; mosescomet

1 posted on 10/09/2005 4:25:40 PM PDT by blam
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To: SunkenCiv

GGG Ping.


2 posted on 10/09/2005 4:26:23 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

I understand Moses had some help from God, too.


3 posted on 10/09/2005 4:31:20 PM PDT by sine_nomine (CBS' Mary Mapes: "It dawned on me that I was present at the birth of a political jihad.")
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To: blam

Interesting. The Exodus is dated by the Bible as 480 (solar) years before the laying of the cornerstone of the Temple, which foundation is dated by O.T. chronologists working from Kings and Chronicles to about 966 B.C. Hence, a date is found for the plagues of about 1406 B.C.


4 posted on 10/09/2005 4:35:54 PM PDT by Leonine
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To: blam

I believe it's GENE Shoemaker.


5 posted on 10/09/2005 4:36:00 PM PDT by tertiary01 (For every Act of God, the Libs will demand a human sacrifice.)
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To: blam
David Levy, ....has argued that the description of the “angel of the Lord in the sky over Jerusalem with a drawn sword” could be a reference to a comet.

Or maybe it was the Angel of the Lord.

6 posted on 10/09/2005 4:39:04 PM PDT by ElkGroveDan (California bashers will be called out)
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To: Leonine

Oops. 1446 B.C.


7 posted on 10/09/2005 4:40:04 PM PDT by Leonine
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To: blam

I think the volcano eruption make more sense that most theories.

Velokowski? thought that Venus was a comet that was captured by the sun, and that its passage caused great disturbances. His explanations of the plagues using this theory was pretty far out.

I remember a National Geographic article in the 1950's that talked about grasshoppers in the Sinai desert that excrete a carbohydrate that is edible, and NG author conjectured that this was the manna of Exodus. I think that article also stated that a reversal of tides phenomenon is known in the Red Sea area that causes waters to retreat occasionally, making it possible to cross.

As Moses was in exile in that area, he probably was familiar with these phenomena.

The most interesting plague is the death of the first born.

Not sure volcanos can explain that, although the deaths of those who didn't keep the same hygiene rules the Hebrews did would explain why mostly Egyptians died in a time of flies and boils, but not why the first born would be affected only.


8 posted on 10/09/2005 4:40:20 PM PDT by patriciaruth (They are all Mike Spanns)
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To: blam
Bright comets can appear at any time, and some have such long orbital periods that they may not approach the sun for thousands of years...so there is no way to know how many comets might have been visible in the centuries in question.

One of the plagues mentioned in Exodus is a plague of frogs. Napoleon conquered Egypt in 1798 and brought with him a bunch of French scholars who studied the antiquities of Egypt. You'd think they would have made a special search for the bones of the frogs, being French.

9 posted on 10/09/2005 4:40:39 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: patriciaruth

Velikovsky was nuts. The planet Venus is just slightly smaller than the earth. Comets are vastly smaller bodies than an earth-sized planet...there is simply no way that a comet could have transmogrified itself into the planet Venus.


10 posted on 10/09/2005 4:44:07 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: patriciaruth

I have some problem with the volcano part. If I recall correctly, they were led thru the wilderness by the pillar of smoke by day and fire by night for 40 years. That seems a bit long for one volcano to spew.


11 posted on 10/09/2005 5:03:36 PM PDT by NerdDad (Do Not Sacrifice for Today's Wants That Which You Will Always Need: Honor, Intregrity, Respect)
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To: NerdDad

Volcanos can spew ash for long periods and appear fiery by night.

Mauna Loa? in Hawaii has been erupting for years.

Still, I agree that scientific discussion of religious text is problematic at best, though fun for some.


12 posted on 10/09/2005 5:29:52 PM PDT by patriciaruth (They are all Mike Spanns)
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To: sine_nomine
God let Moses participate but . . .

The plagues were all acts of God -- not Moses!
13 posted on 10/09/2005 7:12:38 PM PDT by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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To: sine_nomine
I understand Moses had some help from God, too.

Yes, that's usually the point missed.

14 posted on 10/09/2005 7:13:10 PM PDT by scott7278 (Singles of FR, Unite!)
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To: blam; FairOpinion; Ernest_at_the_Beach; StayAt HomeMother; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; asp1; ...
Thanks Blam, even more than usual. Pinging a few non-list people as well.

A warm public welcome to all the recent newbies. We had a long dry spell of over a month, nearly two months I guess, and then FairOpinion took on the pinging duties while I was gone one weekend.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

15 posted on 10/09/2005 7:27:22 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Sunday, August 14, 2005.)
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To: Verginius Rufus

So tell me, have you read Worlds in Collision? Earth In Upheaval? or Ages in Chaos? Or don't you need to read a book to know a theory is wrong or the author is nuts?

http://www.thunderbolts.info/velikovsky-ghost.htm


16 posted on 10/09/2005 7:40:43 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (Understand islam understand evil - read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free pdf see link My Page)
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To: tertiary01

You're spot on, (Eu)gene Shoemaker, and of course, the actual discoverer, Carolyn Shoemaker. Gene and David were figuring out where to point the telescope, and were taking the photos.


17 posted on 10/09/2005 7:53:33 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Sunday, August 14, 2005.)
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To: Fred Nerks

Excellent summary. I have the Pensee publications.

I do not agree with the end of the article where it tries to debunk some "scholar". One would have to debunk the entire "scientific community".

But, since they predicted Venus to be cold and it is not, they lost one. Since they did not believe that there would be radio emissions, they lost two. Since Velikovsky only reported what the ancients said, they lost three....


18 posted on 10/09/2005 7:57:23 PM PDT by Prost1 (New AG, Berger is still free, copped a plea! I still get my news from FR!)
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in reference to Baillie's claims about the (non-)eruption of Thera...

New Ice-Core Evidence Challenges the 1620s age for the Santorini (Minoan) Eruption
Journal of Archaeological Science, Volume 25, Issue 3, March 1998, Pages 279-289 | 13 July 1997 | Gregory A. Zielinski, Mark S. Germani
Posted on 07/29/2004 12:25:45 AM PDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1180724/posts


19 posted on 10/09/2005 7:59:01 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Sunday, August 14, 2005.)
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To: BenLurkin

I suspected that!


20 posted on 10/09/2005 8:05:50 PM PDT by sine_nomine (CBS' Mary Mapes: "It dawned on me that I was present at the birth of a political jihad.")
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To: patriciaruth

If you read Ages in Chaos you will find the following;

ISAIAH 43:16 Thus saith the Lord, which maketh a way in the sea and a path in the mightly waters;
20...I gave waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen.

In the Book of Exodus it is said that Moses was commanded:

EXODUS 4:22-23 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn.
...and if thou refuse to let him go, behold I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

The 'chosen' are here called 'firstborn'. If Israel was the firstborn, revenge was to be taken against Egypt by the death of its firstborn. But if Israel was the chosen, then revenge was to be taken against Egypt by the death of its chosen.

'Israel, my chosen' is ISRAEL BECHIRI, OR BECHORI.
'Israel my firstborn,' is ISRAEL BEKHORI.

It is the first root which was supposed to determine the relation between God and his people. Therefor: 'at midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt' (Exodus 12:29) must be read 'all the select of Egypt' as one would say, 'all the flower of Egypt' or 'all the strength of Egypt'.


21 posted on 10/09/2005 8:05:50 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (Understand islam understand evil - read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free pdf see link My Page)
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To: Fred Nerks

Yes, I read some of his books a long, long time ago.


22 posted on 10/09/2005 8:24:51 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: blam

bttt


23 posted on 10/09/2005 8:52:32 PM PDT by lunarbicep (If your ship doesn't come in, swim out to it. –Jonathan Winters)
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To: Prost1

Desert of Wandering
The desert of the forty-year wandering was not the Sinai. Peninsula, but a much larger area. The inclination of the historians is generally to deny the ancients long itineraries; Midian being the Medina of Moslem times, actually deep in the Arabian Peninsula, all indications in the Old Testament are for a deep penetration of the Arab Peninsula by the wandering Israelites who escaped the land of Egypt destroyed by the catastrophe in the mid-fifteenth century before the present era.

There are autochthonous Arab traditions about the wandering tribes led by Mosaikaia, his brother Arnran, and his sister Zeripha. These traditions have not been borrowed from the Old Testament or rabbinical tradition. From the Bible and Midrashim, the Arabs culled much of the content of the Koran, but they did not realize that their traditions about Mosaikaia (and the catastrophe that took place in his time) are of independent origin, though referring to the same persons and events.

All together indicates that the Israelites under Moses did not spend forty years in the small triangular Sinai Peninsula, but in the western regions of Arabia.



http://www.varchive.org/ce/baalbek/deswan.htm

You may find this above snippet of interest. I am personally fascinated by the meeting of the fleeing slaves and egyptians shortly after the crossing of the jam suf (reed or red sea) with the nomad arabs coming from the opposite direction.

Volcano Information Summary
Eruptive History:

Country: Saudi Arabia
Subregion Name: Western Arabia
Volcano Number: 0301-06=
Volcano Type: Volcanic field
Volcano Status: Historical
Last Known Eruption: 650 AD ± 50 years
Summit Elevation: 2093 m 6,867 feet
Latitude: 25.00°N * 25°0'0"N
Longitude: 39.92°E 39°55'0"E
Harrat Khaybar, one of Saudi Arabia's largest volcanic fields, covers an area of more than 14,000 sq km north of Madinah (Medina). A spectacular 100-km-long N-S linear vent system contains felsic lava domes, tuff rings, the Jabal Qidr stratovolcano, as well as numerous small basaltic cones. At least seven post-neolithic (<4500 years old) and eight "historical" (<1500 years old) lava flows are present. In the latter category is the prominent 55-km-long Habir lava flow as well as Jabal Qidr stratovolcano, the only stratovolcano in the Harrats of western Saudi Arabia. An eruption was reported at Harrat Khaybar in early Mohammedan times during the 7th century AD. Lavas from Harrat Khaybar overlap older lavas of Harrat Kura to the west and merge with lavas from Harrat Ithnayn to the north.

http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/volcano.cfm?vnum=0301-06=


The Arabian Peninsula has over 85 thousand sq klms of lava fields and countless limestone caves.

http://www.saudicaves.com/gallery.html


24 posted on 10/09/2005 8:53:23 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (Understand islam understand evil - read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free pdf see link My Page)
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To: NerdDad
If I recall correctly, they were led thru the wilderness by the pillar of smoke by day and fire by night for 40 years.

Exodus 40:34-38 (KJV)

34 Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.
35 And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.
36 And when the cloud was taken up from over the tabernacle, the children of Israel went onward in all their journeys:
37 But if the cloud were not taken up, then they journeyed not till the day that it was taken up.
38 For the cloud of the LORD was upon the tabernacle by day, and fire was on it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel, throughout all their journeys.

As you can see; they did not travel continuously, but only if the cloud was 'not taken up from the Tabernacle'.

That is even harder to explain via a volcano...or a comet.

25 posted on 10/09/2005 8:55:31 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Mohamophages of the world, unite!)
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To: ApplegateRanch; NerdDad

One must always keep in mind that the Bible uses numbers for shorthand. Forty years or Forty days or Four Hundred xxx = 4*10*x.

10 signifies divine completeness. 4 signifies god's creative works. Thus, 40 signifies the creative completeness of god's works. 40 is also the product of 5 & 8 and signifies god's grace manifest, ie, the completeness of the probationary period. 5 = grace; 8 = renewal or revival.

See E.W. Bullinger, "Number in Scripture".


26 posted on 10/09/2005 9:59:34 PM PDT by Prost1 (New AG, Berger is still free, copped a plea! I still get my news from FR!)
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To: Prost1
I have read Bullinger; I even have a copy of that book, as well as his book (tired; title escapes me) on the stars & constellations in Scripture.

I also have a Companion Bible, which has his appendices & notes.

40 is also significant of "probation".

However, the 40 years in the beginning of my post was what I referenced from the post I was answering. I posted the Biblical quotation to dispel the two common misconceptions in the post I was answering:

1) The Israelites literally "wandered" for 40 years. They didn't; they spent some extended periods encamped in various places;

and especially,

2) That the pillar of fire/cloud was "always" before them. It wasn't, as when they were encamped, 'the cloud abode upon the Tabernacle'.

27 posted on 10/10/2005 12:22:34 AM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Mohamophages of the world, unite!)
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To: Verginius Rufus

"Napoleon conquered Egypt in 1798 and brought with him a bunch of French scholars who studied the antiquities of Egypt. You'd think they would have made a special search for the bones of the frogs, being French."

You'd think.

LOL, my neighbors probably heard me laugh.


28 posted on 10/10/2005 12:38:29 AM PDT by leadpenny
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To: blam

Interesting theory but still just a theory.


29 posted on 10/10/2005 6:27:19 AM PDT by Dustbunny (Jihadist, they want to die for Islam, we need to help them achieve that goal.)
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To: ApplegateRanch

"However, the 40 years in the beginning of my post"

I justed used it for the opportunity to point out that numerology plays a significant part in oriental literature.


30 posted on 10/10/2005 8:54:51 AM PDT by Prost1 (New AG, Berger is still free, copped a plea! I still get my news from FR!)
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To: blam
How very fortunate for Moses that a comet just happened to hit a volcano just as he was threatening egypt with all these calamities, and then the tidal wave just happened to open the red sea just exactly long enough for the isrealites to escape and then it came in at just the exact time needed to kill Pharoahs army.

One would almost suspect that maybe this wasn't just luck and that Moses had a little help from someone else.

31 posted on 10/10/2005 9:23:58 AM PDT by commish ((Montgomery, AL) Freedom Tastes Sweetest to Those Who Have Fought to Preserve It)
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To: blam

I read Exodus to Arthur. Outstanding book--highly recommended.


32 posted on 10/10/2005 9:40:10 AM PDT by Renfield (If Gene Tracy was the entertainment at your senior prom, YOU might be a redneck...)
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To: Renfield
"I read Exodus to Arthur. Outstanding book--highly recommended."

I agree. It's in my personal library.

I highly recommend Eden In The East, by Stepehen Oppenheimer too.

33 posted on 10/10/2005 11:21:08 AM PDT by blam
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Catastrophes, tree-rings and climate
by Andrew Sherratt
If this seems a long time ago, then remember that in 1908 an impact equivalent to a ten-megaton explosion left a 1.2km crater in Tunguska (Siberia), and that events of this magnitude probably occur with a frequency of between once a century and once a millennium. Worth searching for in the tree-rings. Mike Baillie is a leading dendrocatastrophist who believes he had found them. There are certainly some dramatic and widespread anomalies in tree-ring thicknesses, though many may be associated with volcanic eruptions rather than impacts. Sadly, the hard evidence does not yet make a story. Undeterred, Baillie recruits an amazing mixture of historical records for various kinds of unusual phenomena and their associated mythologies, in a way which goes far beyond any credibility as serious science... but a serious idea still awaits investigation.
Exodus to Arthur: Catastrophic Encounters With Comets Exodus to Arthur:
Catastrophic Encounters
With Comets

by Mike Baillie
paperback


34 posted on 10/10/2005 11:26:44 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Sunday, August 14, 2005.)
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To: 75thOVI; AndrewC; Avoiding_Sulla; BenLurkin; Berosus; CGVet58; chilepepper; ckilmer; Eastbound; ...

PLEASE NOTE -- this topic is from last year. Thanks.


35 posted on 03/03/2006 12:41:25 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Fiction has to make sense, unless it's part of the Dhimmicrat agenda and its supporting myth.)
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Catastrophism

36 posted on 04/14/2006 1:56:03 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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bump


37 posted on 12/17/2006 7:58:34 AM PST by true_blue_texican (...against all enemies, foreign and domestic...)
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Catastrophism
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38 posted on 07/13/2008 10:02:09 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_________________________Profile updated Friday, May 30, 2008)
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39 posted on 04/12/2014 6:38:49 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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