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Bush Calls For 'Rational, Humane' Guest Worker Program
AP ^ | Feb 1, 2006 | AP

Posted on 02/01/2006 12:04:11 PM PST by Icelander

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To: ARCADIA
Why should we reduce entitlements to our own citizens; if we are still willing to pay hundreds of billions to support enormous numbers of Mexico's citizens.

Excellent point, why indeed!?

101 posted on 02/01/2006 1:26:31 PM PST by apackof2 (You can stand me up at the gates of hell, I'll stand my ground and I wonít back down)
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To: EveningStar

It'll surely never happen if we don't TRY.

And, yes, try AGAIN.


102 posted on 02/01/2006 1:26:57 PM PST by Howlin (Why don't you just report the news, instead of what might be the news? - Donald Rumsfeld 1/25/2006)
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To: Shalom Israel
Meanwhile, execute any illegals caught in the US.

Are you just spiking the thread or what? If not, I now know of at least one person who doesn't deserve to live in the United States.

103 posted on 02/01/2006 1:27:00 PM PST by mumps
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To: Howlin

I agree.


104 posted on 02/01/2006 1:28:55 PM PST by EveningStar
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To: Icelander

I think a 20 foot tall wall topped with concertina wire and guard towers with .50 cal. machine guns is humane.

The border crashers would know that their efforts are fruitless, and would therefore not attempt to cross. They would also spare themselves the dangerous crossing of the desert, especially during the summer months.


105 posted on 02/01/2006 1:28:57 PM PST by Disambiguator (Making accusations of racism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.)
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To: EternalVigilance
Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo is peaking at the Clinton Co. Lincoln Day dinner here in MI

I am going, my own county is "BIG BLUE" :>(

106 posted on 02/01/2006 1:29:12 PM PST by apackof2 (You can stand me up at the gates of hell, I'll stand my ground and I wonít back down)
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To: GarySpFc; pbrown
I agree, the only solution is the Hunter Duncan proposal, which provides for twin 15 foot steel fences with sensors on 700 miles of the border.

To bring folks up to speed, here is my mini-tutorial, "Border Fence 101."

This is what most of our southern border currently looks like: there is no government-built fence at all. There is often just whatever is left over from some forgotten cattle fence, built privately to keep U.S. cattle from wandering freely into Mexico. For hundreds of miles there is not even a broken cattle fence, there is nothing at all.

For comparison, below the broken cattle fence photo is a sample of an inexpensive but highly effective double border fence system, with a plowed strip to reveal footprints. This type of system is very cheap and can be built with great speed.

Here is what some of San Diego County has: a wall made of rusty Viet Nam-era runway mats. The corrugations are even horizontal, (to make climbing easier?) The illegals in this photo were spotted by unexpected civilian volunteers, and jumped back over the border.

Here is what the border looks like where the runway mat wall exists. Mexico begins on the other side of the ineffective rusty wall, which actually helps the smugglers, by hiding their movements until the occasional USBP vehicle has driven out of sight.

This is how "the game" is played. Smugglers hide on the other side of the wall with their dope and/or their illegals, out of sight of the USBP. They wait for the highly visible white BP vehicle to drive over the distant hills. Lookouts with cell phones and walkie-talkies report on the current locations of the BP units. They know with certainty that "the coast is clear" for an hour or two, and the smugglers and illegals hop the fence and run into the scrub only 50 yards away. From there, they are out of sight, and they walk 1-2 miles to holding houses. Then they wait for nightfall, and are picked up and driven in vans to LA or San Diego.

Lastly, below is the Duncan Hunter 15' fence, which is already being built along a few "showplace" miles of San Diego, mainly near the ports of entry, where panderng politicians can conveniently show it off to gullible reporters. The House has approved building 700 miles of it, which would be a great start. As you can see, the rusty runway wall is seen at the left side, Mexico begins on the other side. In areas with the 15 foot fence, dope smugglers and illegals will have to cross the open sand ("the government road" as it is called) before starting to try to get over the 15 foot fence. It's extremely tough, and resists cutting. Attacking the fence would have to be done right out in the open, in full view of cameras. This type of fence, on the U.S. side of the government road, will give the USBP a barrier to patrol, instead of forcing them to chase illegals around 100,000 square miles of wide-open frontier land, which is a fool's errand.


107 posted on 02/01/2006 1:29:58 PM PST by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: Travis McGee
You know they have lost the debate, when all they can do is throw down the race card

So true. Which is probably why President Bush felt compelled to play one last night when he said:

“We hear claims that immigrants are somehow bad for the economy — even though this economy could not function without them.”

By deliberately blurring the distinction between legal and illegal immigrants he tried to imply that all of us who object to his handling of the ILLEGAL immigration issue are just a bunch of immigrant hating xenopbobes.

It really pissed me off and if he thought that would somehow shift the debate in his direction all promise that it redoubled my determination to fight his guest worker shamnesty every step of the way.

108 posted on 02/01/2006 1:30:07 PM PST by jackbenimble (Import the third world, become the third world)
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To: Itzlzha
Already read it....another excellent post. It's not about competition as some at the top want us to swallow, it's about the bottom line, greed and corruption. It's about the US moving away from Judeo-Christian ethics granted us by our founding fathers and those consequences we are now experiencing.

Pretty simple.

Americans aren't reproducing like they use to because the cost of living has exploded as well as abortion on demand being a reality, varied forms of sexual perversion, being taxed to death when added from all levels, government overwhelming interferening with education and the family, a couple of generations of "I got to have it now", political correctness, illegal invasion, etc......

109 posted on 02/01/2006 1:30:12 PM PST by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: mumps
Are you just spiking the thread or what? If not, I now know of at least one person who doesn't deserve to live in the United States.

Bleah. Minor exaggeration. The point you may or may not get--I can't tell--is that there are two separate questions here. First, what should we do about immigration? Answer: encourage it. Second: what should we do about flagrant lawbreaking? Answer: punish it severely.

110 posted on 02/01/2006 1:30:13 PM PST by Shalom Israel (Pray for the peace of Jerusalem.)
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To: GarySpFc

A fence like the one described would work. Back it up with more border patrol and it looks like a good plan to me.


111 posted on 02/01/2006 1:31:02 PM PST by processing please hold (Be careful of charity and kindness, lest you do more harm with open hands than with a clinched fist)
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To: My2Cents
"But I'll be expecting to see you picking tomatos in the fields outside our town."

How about you use one of these.

Tomato Harvester.

112 posted on 02/01/2006 1:31:06 PM PST by moehoward
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To: Itzlzha

Tell me, is it comfortable there in your bunker?


113 posted on 02/01/2006 1:32:03 PM PST by My2Cents (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell)
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To: EternalVigilance; Itzlzha

The border issue only matters to a small portion of right wing kooks present on FR. The average American doesn't care about it. /bayourod mode off


114 posted on 02/01/2006 1:33:07 PM PST by Stellar Dendrite (There's nothing "Mainstream" about the Orwellian Media!!!)
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To: moehoward

The harvesters in our neck of the woods require a small crew of people to clear away rocks, plant waste, field rodents, and the like, as the tomatos are conveyed onto trailers.


115 posted on 02/01/2006 1:34:06 PM PST by My2Cents (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell)
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To: Shermy
Except for agricultural stoop labor Americans will do the jobs.

You are correct. I did stoop labor as a child...hoeing cotton, picking cotton, cutting grapes, turning grape trays (raisins), picking peaches, oranges and other similar jobs. It was hard work but I liked the exercise.

116 posted on 02/01/2006 1:34:17 PM PST by afnamvet
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To: Dont_Tread_On_Me_888

I think we're going to see history repeat itself.......another limp Bush presidency handing over the WH to a Clinton on a silver platter.


117 posted on 02/01/2006 1:35:37 PM PST by american spirit
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To: EternalVigilance

LOL!!


118 posted on 02/01/2006 1:35:38 PM PST by moehoward
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To: moehoward

Nah, illegal alien slave labor is a lot cheaper. Why pay for that machine, when you can just use illegals instead?


119 posted on 02/01/2006 1:36:33 PM PST by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: RSmithOpt
It's about the US moving away from Judeo-Christian ethics granted us by our founding fathers and those consequences we are now experiencing.

Exactly!

120 posted on 02/01/2006 1:38:32 PM PST by apackof2 (You can stand me up at the gates of hell, I'll stand my ground and I wonít back down)
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To: Howlin

Do you have a plan? Cuz what we've been doing sure isn't working....


121 posted on 02/01/2006 1:41:21 PM PST by Bradís Gramma (Email a Sailor! Email a Sailor! Contact Grammie! Email a Sailor!)
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To: Politicalmom

"I guess you missed the part about "bringing the illegals in out of the shadows"."


I guess I did.
My post was quoted from his speech.
Here's the transcript.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1569147/posts


122 posted on 02/01/2006 1:41:51 PM PST by dixiechick2000 (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. ~~ Will Rogers)
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To: Mr. Mojo

"Cut off their taxpayer freebees, (heavily) fine employers who hire them, and end the anchor baby incentive. ......and then watch them self-deport."

None of which will be done under the Bush Administration.


123 posted on 02/01/2006 1:43:50 PM PST by stephenjohnbanker
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To: stephenjohnbanker

Unfortunately not.


124 posted on 02/01/2006 1:45:02 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: My2Cents

You specifically said "picking tomatos". This machine does that. It's legal, does not require social services, and it creates jobs. There are other machines that perform the tasks you have added.


125 posted on 02/01/2006 1:46:24 PM PST by moehoward
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To: My2Cents
So that's the real concern here, is it?..."little mexicans"?

Typical leftist tactic. Try to focus on a minor point of the argument to avoid having to answer the main point. Or cry racism. You're not getting away with it. I'll repeat my characterization of what you illegal labor slavers do:

"Hiring illegals any other way is fraud, illegal labor practices, and tax cheating. Period, end of. Spin that, pennies."

126 posted on 02/01/2006 1:49:19 PM PST by Flavius Josephus (Enemy Idealogies: Pacifism, Liberalism, and Feminism, Islamic Supremacism)
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To: Brad's Gramma
Do you have a plan?

A lot of people, including the president, have put forth plans or ideas; they all get shot down

127 posted on 02/01/2006 1:49:56 PM PST by Howlin (Why don't you just report the news, instead of what might be the news? - Donald Rumsfeld 1/25/2006)
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To: Icelander

I call for a FREAKIN' WALL FIRST!

Then, if the labor market tightens too much, start a guest worker program.


128 posted on 02/01/2006 1:51:15 PM PST by Little Ray (I'm a reactionary, hirsute, gun-owning, knuckle dragging, Christian Neanderthal and proud of it!)
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To: Flavius Josephus
Typical leftist tactic.

See my post #108

129 posted on 02/01/2006 1:51:55 PM PST by jackbenimble (Import the third world, become the third world)
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To: moehoward

Ah, but that's the point isn't it. Utilizing Illegal labor shifts the real costs to the taxpayers. Some assume they are paying less for the item or service when in fact they are not.

Funny how when the guest worker issue comes up people jump to agricultural labor. The guest worker program will apply to every job sector.


130 posted on 02/01/2006 1:52:02 PM PST by moehoward
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To: Howlin

Well....do you (or anyone else!) have any idea how WE can help then?? Writing letters and making phone calls have fallen on deaf ears.

Because (among other things) it's mighty annoying out here among the border states. Mighty. I wouldn't wish what's happening here on my worst enemy.


131 posted on 02/01/2006 1:52:37 PM PST by Bradís Gramma (Email a Sailor! Email a Sailor! Contact Grammie! Email a Sailor!)
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To: Travis McGee
Excellent. That is exactly what we need. If they pulled together that entire fence line could become a reality.
132 posted on 02/01/2006 1:52:43 PM PST by processing please hold (Be careful of charity and kindness, lest you do more harm with open hands than with a clinched fist)
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We can call it, "Compassionate Immigration."


133 posted on 02/01/2006 1:53:05 PM PST by Cboldt
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To: american spirit

Very high chance of your prediction happening. Damn close to 100%. Bush calling Clinton his "brother" instead of reminding the American public he is a disgraced, impeached, lying felon does not help matters.

I question the greymatter of George Bush. Or, at least, I question his belief in the pro-American, conservative, Founding Fathers, "right from wrong" beliefs in that he is in fact handing the presidency to Scumbagette (an anti-American, anti-traditional American values, anti-Founding Fathers RAT bitch) on a silver platter, as you predicted.


134 posted on 02/01/2006 1:54:41 PM PST by Dont_Tread_On_Me_888 (Bush's #1 priority Africa. #2 priority appease Fox and Mexico . . . USA priority #64.)
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To: savedbygrace

I think the Border Issue may become Bush's al-Queda. What I mean is Clinton refused to accept al-Q's throwing down the gauntlet, declaring war and attacking us repeatedly, so Bush inherited 9-11. If we don't get whacked across the border before Bush gets out, the terror and lawlessness that exists there right now may spread and turn into an even bigger problem than al-Q.


135 posted on 02/01/2006 1:54:50 PM PST by Flavius Josephus (Enemy Idealogies: Pacifism, Liberalism, and Feminism, Islamic Supremacism)
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To: afnamvet

Up until 9/11 they did not even track who left.

Now they do.

It is very easy to just coordinate the computer database of the BCIS to generate a letter to the employer upon the "terminate date". The terminate date will give the "guest" 30 days to leave the country (ala the current bag and baggage order of the immigration courts). If a departure is not recorded the employer is sent a letter which requires them to swear UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY PERSONALLY AND CORPORATE PENALTY the employee has left.

IF (very big IF) they think this out is can be REASONABLE. Those that remain automatically have a felony warrent put out for them and an immiration hold.


136 posted on 02/01/2006 1:56:56 PM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: Stellar Dendrite; Dane

I haven't seen him or dane yet. IIRC, they have similar opinions on the subject.


137 posted on 02/01/2006 1:57:14 PM PST by processing please hold (Be careful of charity and kindness, lest you do more harm with open hands than with a clinched fist)
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To: pbrown
Other than a few token miles to show gullible reporters, they'll never build the fence.

Why?

Because they know it would work, and they want to keep that dirt cheap illegal alien labor coming.

138 posted on 02/01/2006 1:57:17 PM PST by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: Travis McGee

I posted to myself. DOH!
May I direct you to post #130.


139 posted on 02/01/2006 1:58:20 PM PST by moehoward
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To: Icelander

It almost sounds like Bush is thinking about the old Bracero Program that President Kennedy killed in 1963.


140 posted on 02/01/2006 2:00:18 PM PST by Publius
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To: moehoward

Exactly. It's all about greed and short term profits for the Quislings.

The rest of us will pay and pay and pay for the illegals.


141 posted on 02/01/2006 2:00:58 PM PST by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: Travis McGee

We have been sold down the river.......albeit at a bargain price !


142 posted on 02/01/2006 2:01:08 PM PST by stephenjohnbanker
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To: jackbenimble
"By deliberately blurring the distinction between legal and illegal immigrants he tried to imply that all of us who object to his handling of the ILLEGAL immigration issue are just a bunch of immigrant hating xenophobes."

You noticed that too.

143 posted on 02/01/2006 2:03:34 PM PST by moehoward
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To: longtermmemmory
Is this from Cornyn/Kyl or another source? I would like to read it in its entirety. Thanks in advance.
144 posted on 02/01/2006 2:03:52 PM PST by afnamvet
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To: jackbenimble
>>>The borders are practically wide open with thousands of illegals coming every day and the farmers can't find workers. That ought to tell you something. They don't want just cheap labor. They want temporary slave labor<<<




Last week, Safeway in Oregon had orange from Australia and Apples from New Zealand cheaper than domestic produce.

But we'll have $10 heads of lettuces if we don't leave our doors open?
145 posted on 02/01/2006 2:04:06 PM PST by investigateworld (Abortion stops a beating heart)
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To: jackbenimble

YEs, the President acts like a leftist when it comes to this issue. Like when he says "jobs Americans won't do" (at illegal slave labor wages).


146 posted on 02/01/2006 2:04:24 PM PST by Flavius Josephus (Enemy Idealogies: Pacifism, Liberalism, and Feminism, Islamic Supremacism)
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To: Travis McGee
Other than a few token miles to show gullible reporters, they'll never build the fence.

That fence could be our country's salvation, but I'm afraid you're right. It WOULD work so they're against it. Bush has had 5 years to do something about our open borders...5 years and we're still waiting. I would have sworn after 9-11 our borders would have been shut down tighter than brick $hithouse. We're still waiting. *sigh*

147 posted on 02/01/2006 2:05:21 PM PST by processing please hold (Be careful of charity and kindness, lest you do more harm with open hands than with a clinched fist)
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To: afnamvet

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/c109query.html

Select search by number
Enter in s1438


148 posted on 02/01/2006 2:07:43 PM PST by moehoward
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To: investigateworld
But we'll have $10 heads of lettuces if we don't leave our doors open?

Personally, I would rather import lettuce then cheap labor that I get taxed to subsidize.

I American farmers can't figure out how to run their farms without breaking the law then it is time for them to go out of business and sell their land to somebody who can.

149 posted on 02/01/2006 2:07:47 PM PST by jackbenimble (Import the third world, become the third world)
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To: moehoward

Thanks Moe


150 posted on 02/01/2006 2:09:05 PM PST by afnamvet
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