Posted on 04/01/2006 6:40:33 PM PST by twippo
SELMER, Tenn. - Mary Winkler was the quiet, unassuming wife of a small-town, by-the-Bible preacher, seemingly devoted to church and family. But now her husband, Matthew, is dead and she is charged with shooting him in the back with a shotgun.
Authorities won't discuss a motive, and church members say they didn't see any indication she was unhappy. But experts say preachers' wives often struggle with depression and isolation, expected to be exemplars of Christian virtue while bearing unique pressures on their private and public lives.
Gayle Haggard, author of "A Life Embraced: A Hopeful Guide for the Pastor's Wife," said ministers' wives can feel isolated because of a misconception about leadership, since they and their husbands are leaders of their congregations.
They can feel trapped, she said, by unrealistic expectations "to live a certain way, to dress a certain way, for their children to behave a certain way."
And ministers' wives often find themselves handling more jobs than they expected to take on, said Becky Hunter, current president of the Global Pastors Wives Network.
"You're not really hired, and yet there is some expectation in most church settings that the pastor's wife comes along in a package deal," Hunter said.
Too often, ministers and their wives are reluctant to seek emotional help from members of their congregations because they're looked up to as leaders, said Lois Evans, a former president of the Global Pastors Wives Network. They can become isolated, lonely and depressed.
"This family needed help," said Evans. "It seems like there was no place to turn to and no place to talk and it became an explosive situation."
Matthew Winkler, 31, was found dead in a bedroom at the couple's parsonage Wednesday night in Selmer, a town of 4,400 people about 80 miles east of Memphis. Mary Winkler, 32, and her three young daughters were found Thursday night leaving a restaurant in Orange Beach, Ala., about 340 miles from Selmer. Orange Beach Police Chief Billy Wilkins said she had rented a condo on the beach after the slaying.
She was charged with first-degree murder and ordered held without bail. Tennessee Bureau of Investigation agent John Mehr said authorities know the motive for the killing, but he would not disclose it.
Mary Winkler was working part-time as a substitute teacher and taking college courses to get a teaching certificate as well as raising her three children and serving the congregation as its preacher's wife.
"You know she was weighted down," said Jimmie Smith, a member of Matthew Winkler's Fourth Street Church of Christ congregation and a retired psychiatric nurse.
Defense lawyer Steve Farese refused to talk about the Winklers' private life or if they had personal troubles.
"I can't discuss anything she's told me," Farese said. "But I think you have to look at the entire picture. You can't look at the end of a story and determine what the beginning and middle were."
Nowhere in any post did you see me defending anyone, either the preacher's wife or AY.
"My understanding is that the CoC believes **they** are the only true Christians."
And so do Catholics, what's your point?
Apology to txsleuth, as it was txroadkill I intended to ping to post #139.
Of course we believe in salvation by grace - but we follow the instructions given - to repent and be baptised for the remission of our sins and we shall be saved.
Just what is wrong with following instructions from Jesus?
We can each decide what we think - but does it really matter what any of us "think"? We are not giving the salvation. And, I would think that God gave us instructions on how we are to become Christians and receive his gift of salvation.
So - therefore, if Jesus told us to repent and be baptised and we would be saved.....just why should I delete part of this instruction and decide my way is sufficient?
Who are we pleasing by nickpicking? God or ourselves? Do we expect God to jump through our hoops to alter His instructions to win our belief? Don't think so.
Interesting life you've lead!
My dearest childhood friend was my Pastor's daughter. She said the great thing about her dad was he was in his early 40's when he got the call and became a pastor. His kids were into their teens and family life was established before he became clergy. It was hardest on her being youngest and a girl, but they made do.
I always admired them as a family - a great example of how a clergy's family "should" be. Good old Ernie is in his mid-nineties now and senile - but still a great man.
Apparently you are not a member of the Church of Christ - so how is it you can tell the members what they believe?
I am a member and I know exactly why we teach baptism is required - because God told us to be baptised. Why would you not wish to be baptised?
Christ died for our sins and paid the price for us. We are then told to repent of our sins, confess our faith in Christ as the Son of God, be baptised for the remission of those sins and we are saved.
We are not saying the water saves us - Christ death paid the price for us but the Bible also says repent and be baptised and we will be saved. So, are we to ignore that direction? If so, just why?
Grace means "unmerited favor".
Even after we follow Jesus's instructions to believe and be baptized (confessing his name before men and repenting from our sins are scripturally taught as well), God by his grace and mercy (because no matter what we do, we don't receive salvation because we merited it), grants us the favor of becoming a member of the body of Christ, the church, for which Christ gave his life on the cross.
Hallelujah and praise his great name, that we who are sinners and of no account have been given this greatest of treasures by the GRACE OF GOD.
If I am not baptized, am I a Christian? Will I got to Heaven or Hell upon my death?
It is not just ministers that cannot confide - members also have to be selective in what they confide.
There are wives you know, that often gossip.
Therefore, I would never discuss any very personal matters that I would not want the members to know about.
how's everything, lafroste?
"Have you ever been a member of a Church of Christ? You know that old saying... until you walk in the shoes of a man you cannot know the man."
I expect Church of Christ members not to kill people. It has absolutely nothing to do with any memberships I may hold.
In fact, I'm a little sick of people telling me I can't understand something that hasn't happened to me personally. I have a brain. I understand.
I am not here defending what she did. But I can at least empathize as to why she did. I used to attend that Church and know what they teach and believe. I also know what its like to be a preacher's wife and the responsibilities they may have.
She was a preacher's wife; had three kids; was a wife; went to school; and also worked. That's a lot of stress.
Excuse me, just what did you do in your post but condemn the Church of Christ.
I have never understood why so many would have so much distaste for a people that just go to the Bible to seek what God wishes for His church.
Of course, man always thinks he can do better than God at determining what is required in a church, but I would prefer to simply do as God wishes - even if in so doing mistakes are made.
Go ahead and make fun of us. I really do not care. I am not seeking your approval of what I believe - I am just countering your mis-statements about what and why we believe.
Where do you go to seek your beliefs? To a board? To a creed? To church leaders of the day? And just why is that better than God's inspired word - the Bible?
"She was a preacher's wife; had three kids; was a wife; went to school; and also worked. That's a lot of stress."
Lots of people have lots of stress. They don't kill people. The stress should have no bearing on the legal case. Commandment number 6 should be around here somewhere.
Ah... Here it is... Thou Shall Not Murder.
Her reaction was not that of a normal person.
They are somewhat cult like and believe that anyone not baptized is not a Christian
Well, I have studied what they teach and I believe that I am correct. But thanks for your input
Suffice to say that they do not believe in Salvation by grace.
For a week and a half now, I have been coming to FR and have been following the reports of this horrific crime. But I must say I have grown weary of reading posts from the unlearned like you that proclaim knowledge about the teachings of the church of Christ, who then spout total untruths about those teachings showing their complete ignorance about the church or her teachings.
I am now going to attempt to answer your misunderstanding of the churches of Christ and explain why we believe what we believe. I apologize for the length of this retort, however I beg the forgiveness of all, and it is my hope and prayer that each will take the time to read this with an open mind and open heart. Do I expect to convince you Full Court? No, I don’t. But instead, I hope to show others here that the church has scriptural support for the beliefs of her members.
First, I will start with Full Court’s statement that the churches of Christ do not believe in Salvation by Grace. Nothing can be farther from the truth. I was raised in the churches of Christ. I have myself, been a member for over 30 years. I am a fifth generation member (that we can document). I have attended hundreds of different congregations over the years, and I have known or know thousands of members of the churches of Christ, and I must say, I have yet to meet one member, or hear one sermon or teacher teach anything but Salvation by Grace.
Members of the churches of Christ are strong adherents to the teaching of the Apostle Paul in Ephesians 2 wherein Paul through inspiration of the Holy Spirit said:
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Salvation is a gift. It cannot be earned. There is nothing that you or I can ever do to earn salvation. Try as I or anyone might…we cannot earn salvation. This is a tenant and belief of the churches of Christ. Always has been, and always will be. The Bible is full of such statements. But, bottom line, we are saved by Grace, through our faith, and not our works. Period. And your statements that the churches of Christ believe otherwise are at a minimum incorrect, and at worst, a complete fabrication.
Have you maybe encountered some member here or there that are incorrect on the churches teachings? I don’t know. But you know what, I can play the same game. Here, let’s see….Baptists believe that American soldiers are being killed in Iraq because of the sinfulness of America. Baptists further believe that 9-11 and Hurricane Katrina were caused by God to punish America because we aren’t anti-gay enough. Man, those Baptists are almost a cult with those beliefs. In fact, they are a cult. See how easy that was. Fred Phelps says he’s a Baptist pastor. He pastors a Baptist Church. All Baptists must believe the same. I can paint with a broad brush myself. Fun isn’t it?
But you know what, I’m enlightened and open minded enough to know that there are rogue members of each and every faith that go off the reservation as it were and teach doctrines that are not held by most in that specific faith. We are saved by Grace, through our faith in Christ Jesus.
But, most main stream churches of Christ do teach and believe that baptism is essential for salvation. But you know what, we didn’t make that up. It comes directly from the Bible. Please allow me to share with you some of those scriptures.
These are just a few of the scriptures in the Bible that speak of baptism being the vehicle through which God extends his grace. First let’s look at what Jesus himself said. Mark 16:15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. That was the words of our Lord. He, who believes AND is baptized, will be saved.
On the Day of Pentecost, some few weeks after the death and resurrection of Jesus, the Apostle Peter, speaking to a huge crowd in Jerusalem preached to them Jesus, and the following is stated in Acts 2: 37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
The Apostle Paul, in recounting his own conversion stated the following in Acts 22:13-16: and he stood and said to me, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight.’ And at that same hour I looked up at him. 14 Then he said, ‘The God of our fathers has chosen you that you should know His will, and see the Just One, and hear the voice of His mouth. 15 For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
So you see, Jesus, the Apostle Peter, and Paul each speak of baptism as being essential for the remission of sins. (Salvation). In each instance, the statement is made to “be baptized and wash away your sins. Baptism is the vehicle through which God extends his grace to us. Peter further expounded on that thought in I Peter 3 wherein he stated: 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.
Peter says, “there is an antitype which NOW saves us---baptism, not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God”. If you will, “Baptism NOW saves us”. Again it is the vehicle through which Grace is extended to us.
Another example of the type, to which baptism is the anti-type is that of Naaman the Leper in II Kings 5. Naaman was the servant of the King of Aram and he suffered badly from Leprosy. He had sought cures from many places to no avail then finally ee went to the Prophet Elisha and the following occurred, II Kings 5:9 So Naaman went with his horses and chariots and stopped at the door of Elisha's house. 10 Elisha sent a messenger to say to him, "Go, wash yourself seven times in the Jordan, and your flesh will be restored and you will be cleansed." 11 But Naaman went away angry and said, "I thought that he would surely come out to me and stand and call on the name of the LORD his God, wave his hand over the spot and cure me of my leprosy. 12 Are not Abana and Pharpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than any of the waters of Israel? Couldn't I wash in them and be cleansed?" So he turned and went off in a rage. 13 Naaman's servants went to him and said, "My father, if the prophet had told you to do some great thing, would you not have done it? How much more, then, when he tells you, 'Wash and be cleansed'!" 14 So he went down and dipped himself in the Jordan seven times, as the man of God had told him, and his flesh was restored and became clean like that of a young boy.
Now where did Naaman’s actual cleansing come from? Was it the actual dipping in the Jordon River 7 times? No. What if he had only dipped 1 time, or 2 or even 6? Would he have been cleansed? No. Why not? Because he was commanded to dip 7 times. Now what was in the water that cured leprosy? Nothing. Do you suppose that if other lepers had come to the Jordon after hearing the story that they would have been cleansed? No. Why was Naaman? Because he had faith. He wasn’t cured by the water, he was cured by his faith. He was cured because of his obedience. He was commanded to dip in the river 7 times, he did, and he was cleansed. Just like Noah and his family through their obedience were saved from a wicked world by water that cleansed the world. Naaman was cleansed by his obedient faith in the word of God’s prophet.
The Apostle Paul expounds on baptism in several places. They are:
Romans 6: 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Galatians 3: 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Colossians 2: 11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins[c] of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
What the Apostle Paul is saying here is that the way we access the cleansing blood of Christ is by dying as he did. By then being buried with him, and then rising up just as he did to a new life. A new life in him. But Paul wasn’t talking about a physical death; instead he was talking about a figurative death, burial and resurrection. We die to sin by being buried in the waters of baptism. Therein, we share in his death. Just as he died on the cross, and carried with him the sins of us all, we join him in that death. And just as he, after 3 days was raised from the dead, with a new, uncorrupted body, we too, will raise out of the watery grave of baptism, in a new body, free from the corruption of sin. And together with Christ, we will walk a new life saved from our sins. Paul further said, as referenced above, all who are baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Stated another way…to put on Christ, we must be baptized into Christ.
How else can we rid ourselves of sin and receive the salvation offered by Christ, but to die with him? And once a body dies, it must be buried. After that burial, just as God raised Jesus up from the dead, we too will rise out of the baptismal grave and have that new spotless body. Free from our sins. And we then live a life of faith and obedience until Jesus comes to claim his own. It is my hope that this will in some way show to those who wonder, why the churches of Christ believe and teach that baptism is the vehicle through which we receive the Grace of God. This isn’t something that we made up. It is from God. That is our belief. That is my belief. Some may believe otherwise. I know that they do. My statement to those who believe otherwise is: If I am wrong…then the worst that has happened is that I got wet. But let me ask the you this question…If I am right, and you are wrong…what is the worst that will happen to you? Please read these verses and pray and study on them. And ask yourself…How do I put on Christ? What must I do?
Now to those that will claim that by believing that baptism is essential, that I am also taking the position that I am saved by works and not Grace, you couldn't be farther from the truth. Unless you want to label obedience to God as a work. But it isn't a work. I've done nothing of my own accord to earn salvation. I have done no work. All I have done was be obedient. What did Naaman do of his own accord to be cleansed of his leprosy? Nothing. He just had faith that led him to be obedient. And because of his faith, he was cleansed. Faith without obedience is a dead faith. James said "even the demons believe, but tremble". (James 2:19) But are the demons saved? No. Saying baptism is essential for salvation in no way changes the fact that we are saved by grace through faith. God, because he loved us, not because we earned it, gave his only son to come and die on the cross, and carry with him to his grave my sins and yours. And after being buried, he arose again. And I, through baptism died with him. I was buried with him in the water. And then I rose up a new creature. Therein I received the Grace of God. Not of my own, but of Christ.
And finally, if believing the Bible, and the above verses makes the church of which I am a member a cult…then so be it. I am proud to be a member of the cult of Jesus Christ.
May God Bless each and every one of you.
And I agree with you. I'm just saying I have personal experience as to what was expected of her and she obviously felt she couldn't meet them. As a preacher's wife I can imagine how much emotional damage and who knows what else inflicted her.
Should she still be found guilty of murder? Yes.
My guess is though that unless one is baptized in the CofC they are not saved and are destined for hell.
But the CofC is not alone in that teaching.
The most shocking finding of this study--which analyzed nearly ten thousand cases--is that wives murder their husbands far more frequently than press reports would suggest. To put the issue in context, women in general account for only about 10 percent of defendants charged with all murders. But for all spousal murders, women accounted for more than 40 percent of defendants. And "among black marital partners, wives were just about as likely to kill their husbands as husbands were to kill their wives." Not surprisingly, when it comes to parents who kill their children, mothers kill more often than fathers.
Is is just because this is a minister's wife that the MSM is salivating over it?
My brother-in-law is a pastor. His wife was having great difficulty being the "perfect pastor's wife", along with other issues. She did attend a different church for a few years. And one of their problems is that they have a "special needs" child, and he didn't fall into place like the other kids did. They eventually divorced. And he is soon to remarry. It is sad for the entire family. But, I sincerely hope his new start will be good for him and his new wife.
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