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Traitor or ally: gospel sheds new light on Judas (New ancient manuscript found)
AFP via Yahoo ^ | Apr 6, 2006 | AFP

Posted on 04/06/2006 12:41:01 PM PDT by Justice

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Lost for almost 1,700 years, a manuscript entitled "Gospel of Judas" is putting a new spin on the case of the biblical bad guy, maintaining that Jesus actually asked disciple Judas to betray him.

The third- or fourth-century ancient Coptic manuscript -- authenticated, translated and displayed Thursday at National Geographic headquarters here -- paints a different picture of Judas and Jesus.

The papyrus manuscript known as a codex maintains, as the bible does not, that Jesus requested that Judas "betray" him by handing him to authorities, something it says pained Judas greatly.

"The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient Christian apocryphal literature on five fronts: radiocarbon dating, ink analysis, multispectral imaging, contextual evidence and paleographic evidence," said Terry Garcia, executive vice president for Mission Programs for the National Geographic Society.

"This dramatic discovery of an ancient non-biblical text -- considered by some to be the most significant in the past 60 years -- enhances our knowledge of the history and theological viewpoints of the early Christian period, and is worthy of study by historians, scholars and theologians," Garcia said.

"This process will take time and ongoing dialogue which has just begun."

The leather-bound papyrus text believed to have been copied down around 300 AD was located in the 1970s in the desert near El Minya, Egypt. It then moved among antiquities traders from Egypt to Europe and the United States.

It was purchased by Zurich-based antiquities dealer Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos in 2000, and now was to be returned to Egypt and housed at Cairo's Coptic Museum.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: ancient; belongsinreligion; gnosticism; godsgravesglyphs; gospel; gospelofjudas; judas; manuscript; oldnews
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1 posted on 04/06/2006 12:41:04 PM PDT by Justice
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To: Justice
Well now! If National Geographic says it's TRUE, then it must be TRUE! :-)
2 posted on 04/06/2006 12:44:18 PM PDT by hiredhand (My kitty disappeared. NOT the rifle!)
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To: hiredhand

Says what is true exactly? What is your point. You're not clear.


3 posted on 04/06/2006 12:45:22 PM PDT by Justice
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To: Justice

If nothing else, more proof that Jesus did walk the Earth and He was betrayed, which set up the Crucifixion. It was already destined to happen, because God said it would happen, if not Judas and the Romans, then some other method would have occured.


4 posted on 04/06/2006 12:45:29 PM PDT by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: trebb

Agreed.


5 posted on 04/06/2006 12:46:42 PM PDT by Justice
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To: Justice

This will be a fascinating document. It will shed some light on knows mysterious Gnostic groups that are alluded too in Early Church writings. Actually the story about how this text got out is pretty interesting. You could make a movie out of it. The shady world of ancient manuscripts and the people that deal with them is something to read about.


6 posted on 04/06/2006 12:47:07 PM PDT by catholicfreeper
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To: Justice

Justice
Since Apr 7, 1998

No zot, No peace.


7 posted on 04/06/2006 12:47:15 PM PDT by dinasour (Pajamahadeen and member of the Head SnowFlake Committee)
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To: Justice
Michael Moorcock used this idea in Behold the Man.
8 posted on 04/06/2006 12:47:45 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (When Al Franken had his bris, they threw away the baby and saved the foreskin.)
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To: Justice

Who cares about Judas, I want to know about Mary Magdelene!

Unless this new artifact contains clues about the Davinci Code, it is utterly useless. [sarcasm off]


9 posted on 04/06/2006 12:47:51 PM PDT by nhoward14
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To: Justice

(New ancient manuscript found)

Well, which is it? New or ancient?


10 posted on 04/06/2006 12:48:08 PM PDT by wordoffaith
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To: Justice

Just a little humor.http://media.putfile.com/exterminator


11 posted on 04/06/2006 12:48:28 PM PDT by eastforker (Under Cover FReeper going dark(too much 24))
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To: nhoward14

And I want to know about Lilith, Adam's first wife.


12 posted on 04/06/2006 12:49:13 PM PDT by dinasour (Pajamahadeen and member of the Head SnowFlake Committee)
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To: Justice
From www.newadvent.org

(3) Chief Differences between Canonical and Apocryphal Gospels

From the outset, the four Gospels, the sacred character of which was thus recognized very early, differed in several respects from the numerous uncanonical Gospels which circulated during the first centuries of the Church. First of all, they commended themselves by their tone of simplicity and truthfulness, which stood in striking contrast with the trivial, absurd, or manifestly legendary character of many of those uncanonical productions. In the next place, they had an earlier origin than most of their apocryphal rivals, and indeed many of the latter productions were directly based on the canonical Gospels. A third feature in favour of our canonical records of Christ's life was the purity of their teachings, dogmatic and moral, over against the Jewish, Gnostic, or other heretical views with which not a few of the apocryphal gospels were tainted, and on account of which these unsound writings found favour among heretical bodies and, on the contrary, discredit in the eyes of Catholics. Lastly, and more particularly, the canonical Gospels were regarded as of Apostolic authority, two of them being ascribed to the Apostles St. Matthew and St. John, respectively, and two to St. Mark and St. Luke, the respective companions of St. Peter and St. Paul. Many other gospels indeed claimed Apostolic authority, but to none of them was this claim universally allowed in the early Church. The only apocryphal work which was at all generally received, and relied upon, in addition to our four canonical Gospels, is the "Gospel according to the Hebrews". It is a well-known fact that St. Jerome, speaking of this Gospel under the name of "The Gospel according to the Nazarenes", regards it as the Hebrew original of our Greek canonical Gospel according to St. Matthew. But, as far as can be judged from its fragments which have come down to us, it has no right to originality as compared with our first canonical Gospel. At a very early date, too, it was treated as devoid of Apostolic authority, and St. Jerome himself, who states that he had its Aramaic text at his disposal, does not assign it a place side by side with our canonical Gospels: all the authority which he ascribes to it is derived from his persuasion that it was the original text of our First Gospel, and not a distinct Gospel over and above the four universally received from time immemorial in the Catholic Church.

13 posted on 04/06/2006 12:49:18 PM PDT by frogjerk (LIBERALISM: The perpetual insulting of common sense.)
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To: Justice

If Judas did indeed betray Christ as part of Christ's plan, then the suicide makes even more sense. Rather than killing himself for balated guilt at causing Jesus' death, he would have been terribly torn and conflicted at having done what was asked to such a terrible consequence. He might also have wanted to join his beloved Jesus in the afterlife. I think that this scenario would have been far more internally painful than the traditional one.


14 posted on 04/06/2006 12:50:44 PM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: wordoffaith
(New ancient manuscript found) Well, which is it? New or ancient?

LOL I caught that myself as soon as I posted it.

Correction:

Newly found ancient manuscript!

How's that?

I sometimes wish that FR allowed one to go back and edit their posts.

Cheers.

15 posted on 04/06/2006 12:50:50 PM PDT by Justice
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To: Justice

HEre is a page that goes into more detail about these texts. Including all the shady manuscript dealers involved.
http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/manuscripts/gospel_of_judas/


16 posted on 04/06/2006 12:50:51 PM PDT by catholicfreeper
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To: catholicfreeper

Two of the current NYT Bestsellers are about the Templars - and ancient manuscripts/codexes found. Very well may be a movie about it soon.


17 posted on 04/06/2006 12:51:38 PM PDT by txhurl (A sure sign of a lunatic is sooner or later he brings up the Templars.)
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To: Justice
"The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient Christian apocryphal literature.

Fake but true. What this means, of course, is that scientific tests have proven that this papyrus document is ancient, like the Gospel of Thomas or the Dead Sea Scrolls.

But, please. Let's keep in mind that it's also apocryphal. Which is to say that it has no authority. There were numerous heresies, in Judaism and Christianity, from the earliest days.

"Scientific biblical criticism" sometimes assumes that the early Christians made up the Church as they went along, and that the "real" story is quite different. That assumes that a large number of apparently virtuous people, willing to die for their beliefs, would get together around a lie.

If Christ had asked Judas to betray him, then the Apostles would have known about it, and the story would have survived in more than a dead manuscript. Sorry, but Occam's Razor argues that this is most unlikely. Some whacko or someone with a grudge wrote this, back whenever the evidence dates it to. That doesn't mean there is the least bit of truth in it. But naturally the MSM will jump all over it, as usual, because they just love the idea of undermining Christianity and/or the Bible.

18 posted on 04/06/2006 12:52:03 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Justice
Question: Is the text written by Judas? Or is this an apologetica written by someone else?

There are lots and lots of "gospels" out there that are not in what we consider the Bible today.

IMHO: Judas was predestined to do it. It was in his nature and was why he was chosen to be an Apostle. Remember, Peter denied Him too.
19 posted on 04/06/2006 12:52:10 PM PDT by fireforeffect (A kind word and a 2x4, gets you more than just a kind word.)
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To: Justice

IBTZ?


20 posted on 04/06/2006 12:52:19 PM PDT by null and void (We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle)
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To: Justice
It was found in 1970. Even to my semi-educated, math resistant mind, that's hardly new! Oh, and look into Gnostics and their politics.
21 posted on 04/06/2006 12:53:30 PM PDT by blu (People, for God's sake, think for yourselves!)
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To: blu

Newly come to light then. Happy now?


22 posted on 04/06/2006 12:54:35 PM PDT by Justice
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To: blu
look into Gnostics and their politics.

I see that's already been done, shoulda known!

23 posted on 04/06/2006 12:55:25 PM PDT by blu (People, for God's sake, think for yourselves!)
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To: fireforeffect
The Gospel of Judas: I wuz framed!
24 posted on 04/06/2006 12:55:34 PM PDT by Shermy
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To: fireforeffect
The Gospel of Judas: I wuz framed!
25 posted on 04/06/2006 12:55:34 PM PDT by Shermy
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To: fireforeffect

In John, Jesus tells Judas "Go and do what plan to do". I thin the writer mistakes this command for permission.


26 posted on 04/06/2006 12:55:45 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: Justice

Gnosticism was certainly not Christian but I'm not surprised National Geographic might claim it is. It's certainly not the organization it used to be.

For a better perspective -
The "Gospel of Judas"
Interview With Father Thomas Williams, Theology Dean
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1609947/posts


27 posted on 04/06/2006 12:57:19 PM PDT by Varda
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To: nhoward14
Old news here.
28 posted on 04/06/2006 12:58:01 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Justice
Lost for almost 1,700 years, a manuscript entitled "Gospel of Judas" is putting a new spin on the case of the biblical bad guy, maintaining that Jesus actually asked disciple Judas to betray him.

Would seem Mr. Iscariot really didn't have a whole lot time to talk with reporters [scribes] between kissing and throwing money all over the floor?

29 posted on 04/06/2006 12:58:22 PM PDT by BikerGold
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To: null and void
null and void wrote: "IBTZ?"

Living up to your handle I see.

30 posted on 04/06/2006 12:59:09 PM PDT by Justice
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To: Justice

There is a longer article on this at a link on Lucianne.com

Hardly earthshaking. There are a whole host of 2nd and 3rd century forgeries offered up as authentic texts. (My favorite being the Book of Adam and Eve!) I suspect the Book of Judas is just a late arrival to the group. But that won't prevent liberal theology scholars for propounding one ridiculous theory or another. That's hardly surprising as well.


31 posted on 04/06/2006 1:00:07 PM PDT by Captain Rhino (If you will just abandon logic, these things will make a lot more sense!)
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To: Justice

Wow. I guess Sid Blumenthal used to work for Judas, too.


32 posted on 04/06/2006 1:00:54 PM PDT by Kenny Bunkport
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To: Justice

> authenticated, translated and displayed Thursday at National
> Geographic headquarters here

Authenticated by a bunch of evolutionists. No bias here ...


33 posted on 04/06/2006 1:02:04 PM PDT by ROTB (Our Constitution ... only for a moral and religious people... -- John Adams, October 11, 1798)
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To: Justice
From the article...

"The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient Christian apocryphal literature on five fronts: radiocarbon dating, ink analysis, multispectral imaging, contextual evidence and paleographic evidence," said Terry Garcia, executive vice president for Mission Programs for the National Geographic Society..

Yep...right there it is. The National Geographic Society.

I'm not taking a stab at you. I'm taking a stab at National Geographic. They've been at the forefront of pushing evolutionism for years. Now suddenly, they seem to have become Bible experts?! ...or rather experts on those works that were deemed not to be God inspired.

This is a bit like rotating out Israeli Supreme Court Justices with Islamic terrorists, and then being good with their verdicts.
34 posted on 04/06/2006 1:02:22 PM PDT by hiredhand (My kitty disappeared. NOT the rifle!)
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To: fireforeffect

Didn't Judas commit suicide shortly after Jesus' death? Did he have time to write a Gospel?


35 posted on 04/06/2006 1:03:28 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife ("Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny. "--Aeschylus)
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To: Justice

Perhaps. See my profile.

I take it you've lurked a while, or are a retread based on your even knowing what IBTZ means.

Your profile doesn't say one way or the other.


36 posted on 04/06/2006 1:03:29 PM PDT by null and void (We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle)
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To: dinasour
Justice Since Apr 7, 1998 No zot, No peace.

Yes .. hey newbie. Tomorrow is my 8 year anniversary in FR.

37 posted on 04/06/2006 1:03:39 PM PDT by Justice
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To: ROTB

#34 :-)


38 posted on 04/06/2006 1:05:34 PM PDT by hiredhand (My kitty disappeared. NOT the rifle!)
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To: Justice

Too many "zot happy" Freepers. :-)


39 posted on 04/06/2006 1:07:31 PM PDT by hiredhand (My kitty disappeared. NOT the rifle!)
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To: hiredhand

This could be interesting it this book has not been altered like all of the rest of the Bibble in the early 300's by the church.


40 posted on 04/06/2006 1:08:39 PM PDT by zipp_city
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To: gleeaikin

If Judas did indeed betray Christ as part of Christ's plan, then the suicide makes even more sense.



Not really. It makes Christ seem complicit in Judas' suicide/eternal damnation.


41 posted on 04/06/2006 1:09:40 PM PDT by Tevin
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To: hiredhand
Ya Nat Geo publishes a bunch of evolutionist claptrap I agree. I just find it interesting that a manuscript dating from 300 years AD has come to light.

FWIW I believe the 66 books of our Christian Bible is a closed issue. In other words no other books can have the same authority or will be added to the group we already have.

The article makes one point that I find interesting: The manuscript may shed light on some of the beliefs held by some early Gnostic or other heretical sects.

42 posted on 04/06/2006 1:11:02 PM PDT by Justice
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To: zipp_city

Yep...could be! The "church"...especially around the time people were leaving England to come to the "New World"... was NOT a pretty picture. From what I've read in Fox's Book of Martyrs, I think the correct term to describe it around that time would be "apostacy", or something close to it.


43 posted on 04/06/2006 1:11:08 PM PDT by hiredhand (My kitty disappeared. NOT the rifle!)
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To: Cicero
"But naturally the MSM will jump all over it, as usual, because they just love the idea of undermining Christianity and/or the Bible."

True...and folks need to be reminded that there is good reason for many writings to not be included in the Canon, mainly because they were discarded over the years as not being trustworthy records.

shalom

44 posted on 04/06/2006 1:12:16 PM PDT by patriot_wes
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To: NYer

This may be of interest to you.


45 posted on 04/06/2006 1:12:40 PM PDT by joseph20
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To: Justice

IF it's really from 300 A.D. then it will indeed be interesting to examine! Gnostics?....as in nicolatians?...and such?


46 posted on 04/06/2006 1:12:48 PM PDT by hiredhand (My kitty disappeared. NOT the rifle!)
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To: gleeaikin
indeed betray Christ as part of Christ's plan, then the suicide makes even more sense.

This was my very first thought when reading the article.

47 posted on 04/06/2006 1:12:52 PM PDT by GWB00 (Barbara Streisand barely made it out of high school.)
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To: Justice
There where many things written by different groups of believers/non-believers/heretics etc., that some will find particular things in, that often may appear at first to contradict things found in the NT. Often over time carefull research shows them to not be so reliable in what they elude to.
Just think of how many millions of Muslims for instance think the Gospel of Barnabas is authentic. And with relish use it to attempt to dispell Christ's claim to be the Son of God.

Don't know how much you have studied in this area, but do understand Egypt was during those early centuries AD, a breeding ground for all forms of off the wall theological contradictions. Guys like Origen for instance, a philsopher claimed to convert to Christianity (AD 185-254), was known to badly mutilate many of the gospel stories. He lived in Alexandria, Egypt.
In short. I would be carefull as to what you take for granted if you do not do research into this stuff. That is MHO.
48 posted on 04/06/2006 1:12:54 PM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned)
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To: gleeaikin
indeed betray Christ as part of Christ's plan, then the suicide makes even more sense.

This was my very first thought when reading the article.

49 posted on 04/06/2006 1:12:54 PM PDT by GWB00 (Barbara Streisand barely made it out of high school.)
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To: Justice

Must have been written by the same guy that wrote "The Hitler Diaries."


50 posted on 04/06/2006 1:13:22 PM PDT by dfwgator (Florida Gators - 2006 NCAA Men's Basketball Champions)
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