Posted on 04/07/2006 3:56:27 PM PDT by rhema
The Gospel of Judas debuted Thursday in Washington, D.C. What's the Gospel of Judas, you ask? Well, it's not a gospel. And it's not written by Judas. But it's still important, if not the most important nonbiblical text discovered during the last 60 years, as a National Geographic Society executive told The New York Times.
The text, a copy of the document written during the second century, reveals some big news. Turns out Judas wasn't the renegade disciple who betrayed Jesus and committed suicide after remorse overwhelmed him. No, this Judas was just doing what Jesus told him to do. Jesus explained to Judas that he would "exceed all of [the disciples]" by getting Jesus crucified.
Well, that sure would change things. If it were true. This "news" isn't what makes the Gospel of Judas significant. Rather, thanks to this text, we can further confirm what we already know about Gnostics—those pesky heretics condemned by early-church leaders like Irenaeus. Don't get confused by mentions of Jesus and Judas. This is no Christian text. The Gospel of Judas did not circulate until about 150 years after Jesus died. Let's put it this way: This new text tells us nothing more about Jesus' relationship with Judas than does Jesus Christ Superstar.
Until the release of the Gospel of Judas and other Gnostic texts discovered decades ago near Nag Hammadi in Egypt, we learned about Gnosticism mostly through the polemics of Christian apologists. Now thanks to the Gospel of Judas, we can further verify two major Gnostic teachings.
(Excerpt) Read more at christianitytoday.com ...
. . .Nevertheless, some claim the Gospel of Judas and other Gnostic texts throw orthodox Christianity into doubt. "As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities," New York Times reporters John Noble Wilford and Laurie Goodstein wrote, "they have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and political forces that determined which texts should be included in the canon, and which edited out. For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for many believers."
Who are those troubled believers? We're not sure, because Wilford and Goodstein apparently didn't talk to any of them. Karen King and Elaine Pagels revive their Gnosticism act. We also meet James Robinson, a jilted scholar who wrote a book on the Gospel of Judas without having access to the text. The Times doesn't mention that Robinson believes the Gospel of Judas tells us nothing about the historical Jesus or Judas.
I talked with Darrell Bock of Dallas Theological Seminary hours before he was scheduled to lecture at Princeton, Pagels's employer. He explained some peculiarities about the group that gave us the Gospel of Judas. Turns out these "Cainite Gnostics" earned their moniker rehabilitating disgraced biblical figures, including Cain, the Sodomites, and Judas.
On the other hand, the Bible does contradict itself regarding the fate of Judas, and even what he did with the money, so I dunno.
It's just another early Christian writing. Some of them were voted as scripture and some were voted off the island. I wasn't there and I didn't get a vote, so I don't know.
And when would he have had time to write his Gospel?
Historic revisionism to destroy the Truth has been going on for centuries.
Think about the most sweepingly influential person of 1856 whose ideas had been so powerful that they could bring down empires and have continued to the present day....
Now based simply on what you know and what others have told you, write an account of the life of Marx. Your work will be about as accurate I expect as are the Gospels of Judas.
Oh great, I know I'll get flamed but how does the Bible contradict itself concerning Judas fate and the money?
When he was resurrected- but that's not coming until Judas: The Sequel.
Offhand, I recall it says he hung himself in one place, and that his body fell in another. It's easy to reconcile by supposing that he hung himself, and that his body later fell from where he was hanging. I'm sure you can google the specifics easily enough.
It's one of those things where you can invent a contradiction easily enough and cling to it, but it's also easy enough to reconcile in a reasonable manner if you aren't emotionally biased into trying to generate excuses to disbelieve.
Judas didn't write it. Someone else using the name "Judas" wrote it.
Brought to you by Revisionists, Inc. After looking at this arrant nonsense, it's easy to see what group of people are now writing Howard Dean's speeches.
What a coincidence that they pull this old story out just before Easter.
Twisting themselves into pretzels for the sake of rejecting the simple truth. It seems to be a theme lately.
Does anyone know if they've been hired yet, by the Clinton Legacy Rehabilitation Team???
Believers copying the homework of infidels placemarker
ROFLOL! Thanks! Great post!
DUHHHH....
You have NO IDEA what you're talking about and are probably as clueless about scripture as Joe Sixpack! ...And where is this supposed contradiction?
"as a National Geographic Society executive told The New York Times."
Two true friends of Christianity.
In Matthew 27:5 he hangs himself. In Acts 1:18 he apparently throws himself off a cliff because he lands headfirst and his guts come out.
In Matthew, he throws down the coins and runs. The priests use it to buy a graveyard. In Acts, he buys the real estate and takes a diving leap on it.
They're not consistent. You can argue that it doesn't matter, but you can't argue that they tell the same story.
In poker parlance, they're "all-in"
Yeah--Judas Kozlowski.
Read post 21, and read the Bible before you insult me again.
I never attended public schools, except for summer school electives. If I didn't learn anything about the Bible in 16 years of parochial school training, then Joe Sixpack is a lot better read than I thought.
Yep, amazing isn't it?
He couldn't have been the author.
they have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and political forces that determined which texts should be included in the canon, and which edited out. For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for many believers."
Well,...duh? Is this a surprise to anyone? The simple fact is that much of what we have been told is the word of G-d is the product of political vetting. I always get a chuckle when I here some politician say: "this isn't political." Guess what folks? Everything is political--especially religion.
Hmmm. . .I'd not heard of the 'Cainite Gnostics' before, but it fits with the general thrust of gnosticism.
Since many gnostics regarded the God of the Old Covenant as the demiurge, who made only the material world, those who fell under His wrath, would, in their eyes, be precursors to the 'gnosis' which reveals the supposed 'true God.'
Of course, regarding matter itself as an evil prison, the gnostics couldn't accept a Savior who deliberately became material, so the whole Passion and Death of Christ was for the gnostic a sham, a play which was supposed to lead mankind to 'gnosis'.
As regards Church history: those who cannot remember the past are condemned to make it up.
The only believers troubled by this discovery
1. have weak faith; and
2. don't know the history of the gnostic heresies, the local councils which fought gnosticism, the Holy Ecumenical Councils, or the formation of the canon of Scripture.
“Turns out Judas wasn't the renegade disciple who betrayed Jesus and committed suicide after remorse overwhelmed him. No, this Judas was just doing what Jesus told him to do. Jesus explained to Judas that he would "exceed all of [the disciples]" by getting Jesus crucified.”
Not very likely that Judas was working with Jesus based on what is revealed in the gospels that have been recognized as inspired and authoritative for so many centuries now(Matthew, Mark, Luke, John).
Satan prompted Judas to betray Christ (John 13:2).
Satan possessed Judas right before the betrayal (Luke 22:3, John 13:27).
Jesus refers to Judas as a devil (John 6:70,71).
Jesus proclaims "Woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed." (Mark 14:21, Matt 26:24)
Jesus prays to the Father "Those whom you gave Me I have kept, and none is lost (also translated 'destroyed') except the son of destruction, that the scripture might be fulfilled". (John 17:12)
According to these verses, if Jesus was working together with Judas, then He was also working together with Satan...not a concept that can be supported by Scripture. These verses also indicate that Judas did not have a happy ending. Jesus said Judas was 'lost' or 'destroyed'...and proclaiming "woe" against someone is never a good thing.
Then there are the Gospel verses referring to Judas as a thief and a betrayer.
This so-called Gospel of Judas is incapatible with the Biblical Gospels. They do not present the same person by the name of Judas Isacriot.
Your silence is deafening. Perhaps you're composing a very lengthy reply.
Those are your supposed contradictions? First of all, what version of scripture are you reading from?
It's not a contradiction, it is just a continuation of the what happened to him after he hanged himself. Nothing says he bought the field with the thirty pieces of silver...it was a reward for his iniquity probably along with the 30 pieces of silver, infact if I searched for it I believe it might have been foretold. You're assuming things about scripture that don't exist.
I do apologize for my apparent insult. There was no excuse for it, it was just plain mean, and I'm sorry.
Go here and read this.
He hung himself, there was an earthquake when Jesus was on the cross and the tree fell over the cliff .... best I could come up with ... saw it in an old movie once ....but a good explanation nonetheless
And to think that I thought the National Geographic Society was an intellectual organization! They are nothing but a bunch of fools to try and peddle this obvious HOAX as truth or of any importance. Anyone who believes this crap is really naive and ignorant of Christian beliefs and the Bible.
But common sense tells you that the two stories are inconsistent. What did he do with his 30 pieces of silver?
In Matthew, he throws them down and leaves. The priests spend it. Matthew 27:3-7
Acts 1:18 says that he did buy real estate with the blood money. I don't know how you can argue that it doesn't say that. There is not another interpretation that I've ever heard.
Now as far as the two descriptions of the death occur, there is no way that a hanged person falls headfirst if the branch breaks. And it would be quite odd for Acts to describe what happened after Judas's death without mentioning what caused it.
It's just one of those biblical contradictions that drive literalists nuts.
Who bought the land? It doesn't matter to me. But both accounts can not be true.
I know it's true that Judas didn't betray Jesus but only did what he had to in order to fulfill prophecy, but I can't say how I know this or you'll all think I am a nut.
I'm sorry it bores you.
But either he acquired it, or the priests did. It's not really possible to read a joint venture acquisition there.
And then he either hung himself or fell HEADFIRST splitting open his guts. Give me a scenario where a hanged man falls headfirst either before or after death.
It's not shallow. What's shallow is pretending that the two accounts are consistent.
But I know you're too bored to explain how and why he delayed his suicidal tendencies, picked up the coins, went out and made a real estate transaction in the name of himself and the priests before figuring out a way to hang himself and then fall headfirst while hanging by the neck so hard and so fast that he split his guts open.
Heck, that happens all the time.
You're still assuming things in these stories. It does NOT say he bought the piece of land with the 30 piece of silver. (In Matt: 27:5) - It does say he threw down the silver in the temple. (In Acts 1:18)- It says he purchased the field with the "reward of iniquity", which you are assuming means the silver pieces. To be fair I just don't know at this point, but I will research this and see if I can find a prophecy about it.
Two things: Matthew was right there and was writting probably what he himself witnessed, Paul wasn't. So Paul is giving a different account than Matthew and I dare say fits a totally different perspective from Matt.
The bible is 66 books with over 40 authors that is an intergrated message system (C. Missler). And what appears to be contradiction is just an ignorance of the whole facts.
I could show you things about the integrity of scripture that would make your head spin...
I have had some revelations! It occurred to me that since Judas committed suicide he didn’t write the gnostic Gospel of Judas.I'm surpride also that the Jewish establsishment did not know of this story in AD 30. Of course if it died with Judas' suicude then how did the story come about and have any historical credibility? Certainly none of the apostles mention it.Jesus could have handed himself in. Did he double cross Judas by making him an unnecessary fall guy? I feel a Dan Brown moment coming on!
Then again perhaps it was possible Judas may have lived, married Mary Magdalene and lived in the south of France with their children! Brilliant! I had heard something like that recently. Yes, it was Dan Brown’s (Da Vinci Code) story, but silly me, Jesus is portrayed as the husband/father of Mary. Then it also dawned on me Judas couldn’t have committed suicide and then married Mary Magdalene. Even I’m not that stupid!
Of course these mysterious gnostic men of letters were certainly nothing if not creative, and sometimes a touch bizarre.
The gnostic Gospel of Thomas has Jesus saying “ I myself will lead her (Mary) in order to make her male so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males.”
Since the Gospel of Judas was written a long time after the Christian gospels perhaps the real writer was a “Judy.” Must rush! I have some important research to do, but first I’ll reread the Christian gospels for a dose of realism.
I have had some revelations! It occurred to me that since Judas committed suicide he didn’t write the gnostic Gospel of Judas.I'm surpride also that the Jewish establsishment did not know of this story in AD 30. Of course if it died with Judas' suicude then how did the story come about and have any historical credibility? Certainly none of the apostles mention it.Jesus could have handed himself in. Did he double cross Judas by making him an unnecessary fall guy? I feel a Dan Brown moment coming on!
Then again perhaps it was possible Judas may have lived, married Mary Magdalene and lived in the south of France with their children! Brilliant! I had heard something like that recently. Yes, it was Dan Brown’s (Da Vinci Code) story, but silly me, Jesus is portrayed as the husband/father of Mary. Then it also dawned on me Judas couldn’t have committed suicide and then married Mary Magdalene. Even I’m not that stupid!
Of course these mysterious gnostic men of letters were certainly nothing if not creative, and sometimes a touch bizarre.
The gnostic Gospel of Thomas has Jesus saying “ I myself will lead her (Mary) in order to make her male so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males.”
Since the Gospel of Judas was written a long time after the Christian gospels perhaps the real writer was a “Judy.” Must rush! I have some important research to do, but first I’ll reread the Christian gospels for a dose of realism.
For you religious folks.
I'm not trying to shake your belief in the Bible. But the two accounts are surely describing the same couple of events and they vary widely on the details.
I doubt any disciple was there at the death of Judas. Luke, the most likely author of Acts, was not even one of the disciples.
They both got their accounts from heresay evidence and wrote accordingly. It's hardly surprising that the accounts differ.
This is just the secular humanists celebrating Holy Week by dragging up ancient heresies to attack the Bible. Nothing new for the anti-Christians at National Geographic.
heresay=hearsay. Oops
Of course, if Jesus isn't God, then that wouldn't be the case.
So, it would seem this sophomoric piece of sophistry leaves you with a choice: either Jesus isn't God, or God is the devil; and, either way, 2000 years of Church history (the history of civilization) is a hoax.
Someday this "document" will be proven a fake, I'll wager.
Is Al Franken and Kitty Kelly producing this book?...
The word translated "hanged himself" in the KJV is apanchomai from the Greek word apancho. Only used once in the New Testament. In classical literature it means "to strangle" or "to choke" and is used figuratively to mean to choke with anger or grief. The word apancho is a combination of apo, "away from," and ancho, "to squeeze or embrace." It carries a negative connotation meaning "to squeeze from". "Choking" is a literal "squeezing the life from" whereas "choking with grief" is a figurative as in the English expression "all choked up". This would be correct only to the extent that Judas did not die immediately in Matthew 27, but was extremely grieved over the betrayal. He was carried away by grief and despair. Over a period of time he let this grief consume him until he could no longer tolerate it. This figurative usage is verified in classical writings. Various older Greek manuscripts indicate difficulties others have with the word apancho by their deliberate change of the text to more familiar words like apeuchomai which means "to wish a thing away" [MSS 803, 983, 1415, 1608, 2521, and 2539]. Judas wished he had never betrayed Jesus. Fits with the word "repent" in verse 3. Judas regretted what he had done and tried to turn away from the actions in his mind, to wish his thoughts away. One ancient manuscript has the word apopnigo, which is also used figuratively "to choke with vexation or rage" [MS 273] A related word pnigalion means "nightmare". Another manuscript uses the word apago meaning "to lead away" [MS 827] These variations in the text indicate misunderstanding of apancho followed by deliberate and unwarranted attempts at clarification.
Judas' response in Matthew 27:5 wasn't so different from Peter's, who upon realizing his weakness in denying the Master, withdrew himself from the people and wept bitterly. Both were emotionally distraught upon realizing their errors but the difference is obvious. Peter was able to overcome his trauma and again follow the Master. Judas continued to let his emotions hold sway in his mind, so that when he saw Jesus Christ ascend, Judas' distraught mind and errational thinking led him to the point that a spirit of suicide possessed his mind. At that point Judas departed for his own property and killed himself.
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:IJc9ox3gxhIJ:www.religiousforums.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-3453.html+apagchomai&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=9
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