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In Fondaís Footsteps: Murtha, Kucinich, and the Antiwar Movementís Economic War
Original FReeper research | 1/15/2007 | Fedora

Posted on 01/15/2007 6:49:46 AM PST by Fedora

In Fonda’s Footsteps: Murtha, Kucinich, and the Antiwar Movement’s Economic War

By Fedora

There is only one way to end this war. Cut off the funds.

--Dennis Kucinich, November 15, 2006

When John Murtha recently announced legislative plans to cut off funding for US troop deployment in Iraq, he was following the same game plan Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden had used three decades earlier in Vietnam. The descent of this antiwar strategy can be traced from Fonda and Hayden to Murtha through an antiwar lobby that dates from the Vietnam War and has been spearheaded through the current war by Dennis Kucinich.

In 1976, former US Ambassador to South Vietnam Graham Martin testified to the Senate that two prongs of the antiwar movement had played what he considered the pivotal role in Congress’ decision to reject President Ford’s request for emergency financial aid to prevent the fall of Saigon. One prong was the lobbying and public relations campaign directed by Don Luce, whose Indochina Mobile Education Project toured the country spreading allegations about purported US atrocities in Vietnam. The other prong was a complementary campaign directed by the Indochina Resource Center (IRC), a group which pressured Congress to support various goals of the antiwar movement, such as severing US aid to South Vietnam and anti-Communist forces in Cambodia, negotiating the release of South Vietnam's political prisoners, and securing amnesty for American war resisters.

The IRC worked closely with Hayden and Fonda’s Indochina Peace Campaign (IPC), a publicity campaign launched concurrently with an episode of The Phil Donahue Show where Fonda reported on her July 1972 visit to Hanoi and claimed she had witnessed American POWs being treated well. Other IPC members included Donald Sutherland and Holly Near from Fonda’s FTA troupe, Scott Camil of Vietnam Veterans Against the War (whose legal defense in the Gainesville Eight trial was being funded by Fonda), former POW George E. Smith, and former Ramparts editor Mike Ansara.

In its efforts to persuade Congress to cut off US aid to Vietnam, the IRC and IPC worked in coordination with the People’s Coalition for Peace and Justice (PCPJ), a Communist Party front group which regularly sent delegations abroad to Communist-bloc countries and to conferences of Soviet front groups. The IPC also collected aid for Communist groups in Southeast Asia through Medical Aid for Indochina (MAI), a fundraising group founded by future MoveOn.org consultant Bill Zimmerman. MAI raised donations to “buy medical equipment” for the Vietcong and North Vietnam, as well as Communists in Laos and Cambodia. MAI’s fundraisers included Cuban agent Rene Mederos. The funds were sent via trips to Hanoi coordinated with antiwar groups and the Communist Party travel agency AT.

Supporting the IRC/IPC campaign in Congress was an antiwar caucus called Members of Congress for Peace Through Law (MCPL). MCPL had emerged in the late 1960s from a series of seminars sponsored by the Institute for Policy Studies, described in FBI files as “a Washington-based ‘Think Factory’, which helped train extremists who incite violence in the United States and whose educational research serves as a cover for intrigue and political agitation”. MCPL members George McGovern and Mark Hatfield led legislative efforts to defund the US war effort. Meanwhile McGovern and Hatfield lent antiwar groups both political and financial support. During the April 1971 Dewey Canyon III rally organized by Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), McGovern and Hatfield personally transmitted the VVAW $50,000 that former Robert Kennedy speechwriter Adam Walinsky had raised on behalf of John Kerry. The rally was timed to coordinate with Kerry’s testimony to a Senate committee.

Testifying to the effectiveness of this antiwar lobbying apparatus, Ambassador Martin told the Senate:

The main organization I think is the Indochina Resources Center, and I really think that another principal element would be the multi-faceted activities of Mr. Don Luce. . .

When [IRC founder] Mr. [Fred] Branfman came out for a visit to Hanoi. . .in the fall of 1974, and told some of our friends in both Vientiene and Bangkok that he now had a person in each of the 500 congressional offices. . .he was bragging a little bit.

But I think he probably was correct in that they had worked very hard among the newer congressional staffs to get at least one person in each office on the Hill who was favorable to them, who would receive their material, who would try to see that it got to the member, et cetera. . .

Mr. Branfman, I understand, is now sort of on a leave of absence assisting Mr. Thomas Hayden. . .

. . .I seriously recommend that it become a matter of investigation because I do not think policy can safely be made this way in the future.

Unfortunately, all indications are that policy continues to be made this way today. Hayden’s lobbying apparatus supported his 1976 Senate campaign and survived into the post-Vietnam era as the Coalition for a New Foreign and Military Policy (CNFMP, intertwined with similar groups called the Campaign for a Democratic Foreign Policy and the Campaign for Economic Democracy). CNFMP spawned spinoffs which remain active today, such as the Latin America Working Group (LAWG), a coalition of over 65 groups that recently played a role in organizing opposition to John Bolton.

Meanwhile, key Congressional leadership positions have been assumed by MCPL veterans, who include Senators Joseph Biden, Christopher Dodd, Tom Harkin, and Edward Kennedy and Representatives John Conyers, Jr., George Miller, and Charles Rangel. Conyers, Miller, and Rangel are also members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus (CPC), a socialist lobby descended from the influence of MCPL member Michael Harrington.

The CPC overlaps with the Iraq antiwar lobby organized in September 2002 by CPC Congressman Dennis Kucinich. Kucinich announced the formation of a Congressional antiwar coalition immediately following the return of a delegation to Baghdad co-led by former MCPL Senator James Abourezk. Kucinich’s coalition initially consisted of 19 Democrats, notably CPC members Barbara Lee, who had cast the lone vote against military action in Afghanistan after 9/11, and Jim McDermott, who had also criticized military action against Afghanistan. McDermott would soon follow up Abourezk’s delegation with another trip to Baghdad. Accompanying McDermott’s delegation was Iraqi agent Shakir Al-Khafaji, who later paid McDermott a check. Al-Khafaji had also been using Oil-for-Food vouchers to finance a film by antiwar spokesman Scott Ritter, who met Abourezk’s delegation in Baghdad.

Since 2002, Kucinich’s coalition has spearheaded the movement to defund the war effort. On June 16, 2005, Kucinich’s coalition held a Capitol Hill news conference to announce the introduction of a resolution calling for the withdrawal of US forces from Iraq on or before October 1, 2006. The October 2006 deadline came and went, but immediately after the Democrats’ victory in the November 2006 elections, Kucinich began calling on the new Congress to cut off funding for the war. On November 15, 2006, Kucinich said in a floor speech:

One week ago the American people sent a message to this Congress. That message had to do with Iraq. Were the American people asking us to send more troops? No. They want the troops to come home. Were they looking for to expand the war? No. They want us to end the war.

There is only one way to end this war. Cut off the funds.

Kucinich echoed these sentiments throughout November and December. Then on January 10, 2007, the day after Murtha unveiled a new antiwar plan, Kucinich introduced a resolution against proposed troop escalation and laid out what he called the Kucinich Plan, which repeated his earlier proposal to cut off war funding:

That’s what the Kucinich Plan, which I [am] presenting to Congress today is all about. Congress is a co-equal branch of government. We have an urgent responsibility here. Congress under Article I, Section 8, has the war-making power. Congress appropriates funds for the war.

Congress does not dispense with its obligation to the American people simply by opposing a troop surge in Iraq. It is simply not credible to maintain that one opposes the war, yet continues to fund it. If you oppose the war, then don’t vote to fund it.

In introducing legislation to defund the war, then, Murtha is following the Kucinich Plan. And Kucinich is following in the footsteps of Fonda.

Select Bibliography

”Bipartisan Coalition Of Members of Congress Announce Legislation Setting Date To Begin The Withdrawal Of US Armed Forces From Iraq: Reps. Jones (R-NC), Paul (R-TX), Abercrombie (D-HI), Kucinich (D-OH) Announce Legislation This Morning At Capitol Hill Press Conference”. Congressman Dennis J. Kucinich. June 16, 2005. http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=29423

Chumley, Cheryl K. “The Congressional Progressive Caucus: Fringe-Left Democrats Wield New Influence”. Capital Research Center. January 2007. http://www.capitalresearch.org/pubs/pdf/FW0107.pdf

Congressional Progressive Caucus. http://cpc.lee.house.gov/

Fedora. “Goodfellow’s Bedfellows: Who’s in Bed with the Washington Post”. FreeRepublic.com. July 4, 2006. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1660323/posts

Fedora. “Wilsongate: Motive, Means, and Opportunity”. FreeRepublic.com. November 21, 2005. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1526309/posts

”House Coalition Announces Opposition To War: 19 Members Of Congress Representing A Growing Coalition in the House Announce Opposition to War in Iraq”. Congressman Dennis J. Kucinich. September 19, 2002. http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=26537

“Independent American Delegation to Baghdad”. IPA: Institute for Public Accuracy. September 10, 2002. http://www.accuracy.org/newsrelease.php?articleId=614

”Kucinich: American Voters Want Congress To End War In Iraq”. Congressman Dennis J. Kucinich. November 15, 2006. http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=53845

”Kucinich: Congress Must Cut Off Funds For Iraq War; More Troops Will Only Increase The Death And Destruction: Congress Must Use Its Constitutional Authority To Do What The Administration Will Not: End The War In Iraq”. Congressman Dennis J. Kucinich. November 20, 2006. http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=53846

”Kucinich: Congress Needs To Oppose Bush’s Call For Troop Surge: Introduces Resolution Urging President Not To Order Troop Escalation”. Congressman Dennis J. Kucinich. January 10, 2007. http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=55163

Landau, Saul. “Doom in Baghdad”. The Progressive. November 2002. http://www.mafhoum.com/press4/118S29.htm

”Members of Congress for Peace through Law”, Institutional Analysis. Issue 1, April 19, 1977. Online at http://www.heritage.org/Research/GovernmentReform/IA1.cfm

Pfeiffer, Eric. “Murtha proposes bill to choke funding for surge”. The Washington Times. January 15, 2007. http://washingtontimes.com/national/20070114-113535-3275r.htm

Poole, William T. “The Anti-Defense Lobby Part 3: Coalition for a New Foreign and Military Policy”. Institutional Analysis. Issue 12, December 19, 1979. Online at http://www.heritage.org/Research/GovernmentReform/IA12.cfm

---------------------. “Campaign for Economic Democracy Part I: The New Left in Politics”. Institutional Analysis. Issue 13, September 19, 1980. Online at http://www.heritage.org/Research/GovernmentReform/IA13.cfm

---------------------. “Campaign for Economic Democracy Part II: The Institute for Policy Studies Network”. Institutional Analysis. Issue 14, April 19, 1981. Online at http://www.heritage.org/Research/GovernmentReform/IA14.cfm

Powell, S. Steven. Covert Cadre: Inside the Institute for Policy Studies. Introduction by David Horowitz. Ottawa, Illinois: Green Hill Publishers, Inc., 1987.

Rogers, David. “Murtha Outlines Strategy To Restrict Troop Surge”. The Wall Street Journal. January 9, 2007, A6. Online at http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB116831329878171033-8Vl8GdijujdEXH_fLjVthcE4Ojk_20080109.html

Tyson, James L. Target America: The Influence of Communist Propaganda on U.S. Media. Preface by Reed Irvine. Chicago: Regnery Gateway, 1981.

United States Congress House Committee on Internal Relations, 94th Congress, 2nd Session. The Vietnam-Cambodia Emergency, 1975: Part III--Vietnam Evacuation: Testimony of Ambassador Graham A. Martin, January 27, 1976. Washington, DC: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1976.


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cpc; fonda; hayden; kucinich; murtha; progressivecaucus

1 posted on 01/15/2007 6:49:50 AM PST by Fedora
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To: RedRover

Murtha ping.


2 posted on 01/15/2007 6:50:57 AM PST by Fedora
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To: Shermy; piasa; Liz; backhoe; christie; GailA; Alamo-Girl; stockpirate; stands2reason; windchime; ...

Ping on Vietnam, Goodfellow and related subjects.


3 posted on 01/15/2007 6:53:40 AM PST by Fedora
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To: SunkenCiv

Historical ping.


4 posted on 01/15/2007 6:54:27 AM PST by Fedora
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To: smoothsailing; ForGod'sSake; GOPJ; Txsleuth; nuclady; sageb1; Helen

Ping.


5 posted on 01/15/2007 6:55:33 AM PST by Fedora
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To: Fedora

Hope that's everybody from my various ping lists who might be interested in this--sorry if I missed anybody.


6 posted on 01/15/2007 6:56:26 AM PST by Fedora
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To: Fedora

All of them, deserve to dance,
at the end of US gallows ropes.


7 posted on 01/15/2007 7:01:19 AM PST by NickatNite2003 (From the Man from Hope" to the wife who snarls "Abandon All Hope!")
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To: Fedora

Sure , cut the funds . Make sure our boys do not have bullets to shoot at the enemy and tanks that run . What does Murhta have to do with this anyway he was involved with the middle east sting ,how can he be trusted? How did these two win? What is wrong with people ? The military families better get involved with a heavy march on Washington. We could help, can't we.


8 posted on 01/15/2007 7:06:54 AM PST by betsyross1776
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To: Max Friedman

Meant to ping you to this as well. I wanted to include what you mentioned on other threads about the Fonda/Hayden investigation but wasn't sure if you had published that yet or not, so I left it out. Has that been published yet? Looking forward to reading that when it's available.


9 posted on 01/15/2007 7:11:30 AM PST by Fedora
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To: betsyross1776
Sure, cut the funds. Make sure our boys do not have bullets to shoot at the enemy and tanks that run.
They don't care. They don't care one iota for the lives of US military personnel. In fact, if there was a politically expedient way to vote for funds to give to enemy soldiers, these traitors would do that. They would actively vote to actively kill more American soldiers and marines.
10 posted on 01/15/2007 7:22:51 AM PST by samtheman
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To: samtheman
This is why we have to take back our congress folks. the reason is our kids lives are at stake. Another attack is at stake. We got to stand and fight for what we believe in , cause if we don't we all are toast.
11 posted on 01/15/2007 7:25:15 AM PST by betsyross1776
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To: betsyross1776
The military families better get involved with a heavy march on Washington. We could help, can't we.

I see that and a supporting counter-lobbying effort as vital. If they could do it to oppose the war, we can do it to support the troops.

12 posted on 01/15/2007 7:39:34 AM PST by Fedora
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To: Fedora
They're the same organizations, often the same damn people, promoting the same subversion...and all fronting for the same old socialist idea.

The KGB injected them into our society's bloodstream -- just like a toxin, or self-replicating virus.

And their sole interest is American defeat.

13 posted on 01/15/2007 7:42:54 AM PST by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: Fedora

BTTT


14 posted on 01/15/2007 7:55:49 AM PST by Liz (Nearly all men can stand adversity, but to test a man's character, give him power. Abe Lincoln)
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To: okie01

Apt analogy. They are a virus, and a cancer. I think the most insidious part is the part of the disease that goes deeper than the KGB, though. Even before and during the rise of the USSR, much of the funding for the global Marxist movement was coming from US philanthropies. I believe this has also been a major factor in the post-Cold War survival of the problem: they can keep feeding off private philanthropies and--by declaring nonprofit status--US government grants and UN "Non-Government Organization" privileges. Meanwhile on the legal front they are protected by an "immune system"--to extend the analogy--consisting of the loopholes the ACLU has discovered/created in the legal and judicial systems. I believe that these are also fronts in the War on Terror, necessary battlefields that must be faced to deal with our homegrown terrorists.


15 posted on 01/15/2007 7:58:43 AM PST by Fedora
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To: Fedora
Just because we are right and have the numbers if we do not stand up , they the congress will never know it. If you do let me know when I would love to go organize and I promise to help as much as I can.
16 posted on 01/15/2007 8:06:59 AM PST by betsyross1776
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To: Fedora; Berosus; Cincinatus' Wife; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; FairOpinion; ..

Thanks.


17 posted on 01/15/2007 8:28:08 AM PST by SunkenCiv ("In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, they're not." -- John Rummel)
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To: samtheman

I live about 20 miles from Kucinich's district. I'm amazed and saddened that people who live so close to me continue to vote the communist into office. While Mayor of Cleveland, he ran the city into default, yet his district continues to reelect him to Congress.


18 posted on 01/15/2007 8:28:26 AM PST by mmichaels1970
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To: Fedora

Thanks for the ping!


19 posted on 01/15/2007 8:37:03 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
A ping for Tonk's Promise.


Kerry : Help is on the way! Hanoi Jane Partners with MoveOn.Org

'Hanoi Jane' Fonda is teamed up with a leading anti-Bush 527 group in a bid to register millions of women voters to cast their ballots for her old anti-war protest partner, John Kerry.



"First I picked Edwards BUT now I pick Hanoi Jane!"

Edwards played football in 1971 when he turned 18
instead of serving in Vietnam.
Hanoi Jane at least was a Viet Cong!
Just like me!

Hanoi Jane and I know how to demoralize US Troops serving today!

We hate US Troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

We hate all US Troops!

We lie about them in 2004 the same as we did in the 60's and 70's!

We vow to insult and undermine Iraq Prime Minister Ayad Allawi

We vow to protect the UN and the Oil for Food Scandal

We vow to keep secret the ties between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaida

We vow to free Saddam Hussein with help from our old friend Ramsey Clark.


John F. Kerry
Timeline of a traitor.
Click Here





20 posted on 01/15/2007 8:39:34 AM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: BIGLOOK; ALOHA RONNIE; An Old Marine; SandRat; Just A Nobody; Liz; piasa; Mia T; Cindy; freema

ping


21 posted on 01/15/2007 8:41:00 AM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: ex-Texan; okie01

"They're the same organizations, often the same damn people, promoting the same subversion...and all fronting for the same old socialist idea."

bump


22 posted on 01/15/2007 8:42:55 AM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: Fedora; neverdem

Thank you!


23 posted on 01/15/2007 8:47:07 AM PST by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: Fedora

Just got an Google Alert to this thread via e-mail (keyword: "Murtha"). Great piece, Fedora! I hope the Google notice brings you lots more readers (including those in the Gang of Murtha who monitor these things).


24 posted on 01/15/2007 10:15:13 AM PST by RedRover (They are not killers. Defend our Marines.)
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To: All; betsyross1776; Fedora; Calpernia; CBart95; NickatNite2003; samtheman; okie01; Liz; ...

.

NEVER FORGET



Long ago a post-WATERGATE Democrat Congress' 1st 'Cut & Run' Operation gave us:


Pictures of a vietnamese Re-Education (SLAVE LABOR) Camp

http://www.Freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1308949/posts



NEVER ever AGAIN...!!!!


Especially
in a new time of war
in a new century
with our own Freedom
directly at stake here at home,
with an Enemy that's now
just around the corner and
...up your street..?



Signed:.."ALOHA RONNIE" Guyer
Veteran-1st Major Battles for Freedom of the Vietnam War 1965-66

(Photo Collection)
http://www.lzxray.com/guyer_collection.htm



NEVER FORGET

.


25 posted on 01/15/2007 10:18:02 AM PST by ALOHA RONNIE ("ALOHA RONNIE" Guyer/Veteran-"WE WERE SOLDIERS" Battle of IA DRANG-1965 http://www.lzxray.com)
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To: SunkenCiv

Interesting piece, but sadly, I think a little too long for forwarding to most folks I know.


26 posted on 01/15/2007 10:34:49 AM PST by Seadog Bytes (OPM - The Liberal 'solution' to every societal problem. (Other People's Money))
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To: ALOHA RONNIE
I lost a cousin in Viet Nam . He was only there one day. As he went from the ship to his base, the helicopter he was in blew up. His body was never found. Never forget is correct fight on. Don't let another family feel the way we did when we gave Viet Nam to the communist because of Kerry and Kennedy. Please never forget don't let our boys come home in defeat. Let our troops come home and be honored the way they should be. It took years for this country to honor our Viet Nam vets , and build a wall to honor them. Don't let the commie right get us again .My husband was in Viet Nam . REMEMBER REMEMBER REMEMBER!
27 posted on 01/15/2007 10:40:40 AM PST by betsyross1776
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To: betsyross1776; All

.

Thank you so very much, betsyross1776,

...for your family's Loving Sacrifice on behalf of Freedom for so many Others long ago.

And for your Loving caring for Loved Ones so selflessly doing the exact same thing now.


For..

...it's been my direct experience
in Life that...

...the one thing the LOVE Itself needs more of in this world,

for GOD is LOVE,

.............is more LOVE.


AND THAT ONLY COMES WHEN PEOPLE ARE

.............FREE..!!!

.


28 posted on 01/15/2007 11:12:45 AM PST by ALOHA RONNIE ("ALOHA RONNIE" Guyer/Veteran-"WE WERE SOLDIERS" Battle of IA DRANG-1965 http://www.lzxray.com)
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To: betsyross1776; All

.

NEVER FORGET


The Words
http://www.Freerepublic.com/~ALOHARONNIE


The Pictures
http://www.RickRescorla.com/The%20Statue.htm


The Heroism
http://www.ArmchairGeneral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24361


NEVER FORGET

.


29 posted on 01/15/2007 11:14:45 AM PST by ALOHA RONNIE ("ALOHA RONNIE" Guyer/Veteran-"WE WERE SOLDIERS" Battle of IA DRANG-1965 http://www.lzxray.com)
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To: Fedora
Even before and during the rise of the USSR, much of the funding for the global Marxist movement was coming from US philanthropies.

You refer to Lenin's fundraiser, Peter Kropotkin?.

In her book, The Proud Tower, historian Barbara Tuchman wrote how Kropotkin came to the U.S. and served as a centerpiece in many upper class New York City salons. He used these opportunities to collect millions of dollars in Lenin's behalf...from the wealthy and "intellectual" elites whom Lenin (and Kropotkin) intended to pauperize and/or murder.

If I am not mistaken, Peter Kropotkin is also from whence the term "crackpot" arose.

I believe that these are also fronts in the War on Terror, necessary battlefields that must be faced to deal with our homegrown terrorists.

I could not agree more.

30 posted on 01/15/2007 1:38:55 PM PST by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: okie01

Thanks for the Kropotkin references. I wasn't thinking of him specifically, but yes, people associated with him and Lenin in New York would be one example of what I was talking about. More generally I was thinking of various philanthropists in New York, New England, the Midwest, and California that supported a number of pre-Soviet and early Soviet developments like the Second International, the Progressive Movement, certain utopian colonies with a Marxist orientation, the Hull House network, Emma Goldman, etc. There were also some American businessmen who effectively helped finance the young Soviet Union for what appear to have been non-ideological, financially-motivated reasons, such as Henry Ford and Averell Harriman.


31 posted on 01/15/2007 3:17:26 PM PST by Fedora
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To: Calpernia; 2111USMC; 2nd Bn, 11th Mar; 68 grunt; A.A. Cunningham; ASOC; AirForceBrat23; Ajnin; ...

PING


32 posted on 01/15/2007 3:26:34 PM PST by freema (Marine FRiend, 1stCuz2xRemoved, Mom, Aunt, Sister, Friend, Wife, Daughter, Niece)
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To: Fedora; betsyross1776; 2111USMC; 2nd Bn, 11th Mar; 68 grunt; A.A. Cunningham; ASOC; ...
The military families better get involved with a heavy march on Washington. We could help, can't we.

I see that and a supporting counter-lobbying effort as vital. If they could do it to oppose the war, we can do it to support the troops.

Fedora, I so appreciate your input, as you well know. betsy, you, too. But pardon me while I vent. Military families have enough on their plate and are quite hindered by being openly vocal (i.e. just paint a bullseye on us). How about a suggestion, made in all sincerity, that the dead wood on the right get off their ass.

33 posted on 01/15/2007 3:56:04 PM PST by freema (Marine FRiend, 1stCuz2xRemoved, Mom, Aunt, Sister, Friend, Wife, Daughter, Niece)
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To: freema

The more people that support such an effort, the better.


34 posted on 01/15/2007 4:00:05 PM PST by Fedora
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To: Fedora

I know, don't mind me : (


35 posted on 01/15/2007 4:09:52 PM PST by freema (Marine FRiend, 1stCuz2xRemoved, Mom, Aunt, Sister, Friend, Wife, Daughter, Niece)
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To: Fedora; freema

Surely this post is worth bookmarking for future reference. Somehow more people that are capable of indulging in the thinking process should be able to have this sort of info emailed to them.


36 posted on 01/15/2007 6:18:44 PM PST by Marine_Uncle
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To: Calpernia; Fedora; ALOHA RONNIE
The Quakers, the Amish and the Mennonites are legitimate conscientious objectors and conduct themselves quietly observing their beliefs and moral stands by example.

Those named in the various groups above, all have sought and achieved to some part celebrity, political power and profit on the same noble ideology of those whose religious beliefs sanction war and violence as a means to an end, who do so without seeking personal benefit from their stand.

Our military trains for war but does not seek it, responds to threats to our way of life, our freedoms, our home for a pittance and pride and all too often at great cost to themselves and their families. Corporations and businesses in this country have expanded their technological capabilities exponentially in the past one hundred years overmatching the efforts of those that oppose us, providing an economy and standard of living that is envied globally. Much of this advance was propagated by the necessity of National Defense and many of the advances have found peaceful and utilitarian functions in our lives.

The new class of anti-war objectors brand the military as War Mongers and worse. Industry is reviled as War Profiteers but those that call names and have no personal stake it the outcome of events other than their own self aggrandizement and sought-after profit do so with impunity under the protection of all that serve and produce.

Stamp Out Anti-War Profiteering!

De-fund the Left!


37 posted on 01/15/2007 7:23:50 PM PST by BIGLOOK (Keelhauling is a sensible solution to mutiny.)
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To: freema

's'okay :-) I sympathize with your venting :-)


38 posted on 01/15/2007 7:28:10 PM PST by Fedora
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To: Fedora

The united States fought the war on poverty. And lost.

The United States fought the war on drugs. And lost.

The United States is fighting the war on terror. And the Democrat Party is doing every thing in its power to lose this one also. In fact, the Democrats received a shot in the arm to aid their cause from the American voting public in November '06.


39 posted on 01/15/2007 7:29:32 PM PST by sport
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To: BIGLOOK
The Quakers, the Amish and the Mennonites are legitimate conscientious objectors and conduct themselves quietly observing their beliefs and moral stands by example.

There are indeed legitimate religious conscientious objectors, and I agree with the gist of the rest of your post. However, I would add that the Historic Peace Churches have also frequently been infiltrated and used by those with other agendas not motivated by traditional religious pacificism--as an example I would cite the American Friends Service Committee's record. Unfortunately it can be difficult to distinguish such opportunistic pacifism from genuine religious pacifism at a casual glance, which calls for charitable yet cautious discernment, per the precept of being wise as snakes but innocent as doves.

40 posted on 01/15/2007 7:46:16 PM PST by Fedora
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To: All; BIGLOOK

.

NEVER FORGET


Sen. TED KENNEDY pushed a post-WATERGATE Democrat Congress into leaving a then Free South Vietnam without any U.S. Funding to fight for its own Freedom with.

Even though he personally saw exactly what the Fight for Freedom in South Vietnam was really all about, at the very start of the Vietnam War:

http://www.lzxray.com/guyer_set1.htm

(See 5th Photo down-Sen. TED KENNEDY touring our 1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile) Headquarters in South Vietnam's Central Highlands-October 1965)


What price is to be paid now as Sen. TED KENNEDY again pushes a Democrat Congress hard into a 2nd 'Cut & Run' Operation..?

12 Million suddenly missing Iraqi purple Voting fingers..?


NEVER FORGET

.


41 posted on 01/15/2007 8:14:27 PM PST by ALOHA RONNIE ("ALOHA RONNIE" Guyer/Veteran-"WE WERE SOLDIERS" Battle of IA DRANG-1965 http://www.lzxray.com)
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To: ALOHA RONNIE

Thanks for the ping!


42 posted on 01/15/2007 9:38:07 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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Related:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1768256/posts
Vet support group has anti-war affiliations


43 posted on 01/16/2007 6:09:10 AM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: freema
Oh I agree , but we need the military families to make the statement ,we do not want our sons and daughters underfunded because the left are slaves to the move on.org crowd.It is time for military families to show how proud they are of the men and women over there and in other places of the world . Also we are tired of the anti war people degrading our military. The one thing I know would wake up the congress if we all got together and stood on those steps and said we love our kids and we do not want the likes of Charlie Rengle and Barney Frank telling us our kids will go into battle with no money. Also it is time for all of us on this conservative side to as you say get off the ass and get to Washington and show the congress all the votes we do have. Cindy Sheehan and her crowd of loons are only 30 people we can mobilize thousands.I remember when we had a rally in Washington in July for pro life, we did not have fox news only CNN owned by Fonda,s turner , but we were thousands , I know I was there. I am willing to put my time and my money on the line to go to Washington anytime you and the rest of us are. We have a lot to lose , our troops moral means a lot .
44 posted on 01/16/2007 6:33:36 AM PST by betsyross1776
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To: Fedora; betsyross1776

Excellent post, Fedora. Thank you!

Repeating betsyross' question:

"What is wrong with people?"


45 posted on 01/20/2007 12:20:55 PM PST by windchime (I consider the left one of the fronts on the WOT.)
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