Skip to comments.Jesse Ramirez, Considered a “Vegetable” Like Terri Schiavo, Now on His Way to Recovery
Posted on 06/28/2007 3:58:52 PM PDT by wagglebee
CHANDLER, Arizona, June 28, 2007 (LifeSiteNews.com) Written off by doctors as a hopeless vegetable, an Arizona man would not now be on his way to recovery from an accident caused by a marital quarrel if not for his familys unrelenting struggle for his life.
The Arizona Republic reports that on Wednesday, Jesse Ramirez, awoke from his nearly month long persistent vegetative state (PVS) and now can hug and kiss, nod his head, answer yes and no questions, give a thumbs-up sign and sit in a chair.
If not for the past few weeks legal battles that ended Tuesday with a favorable settlement for him and his family, Jesse Ramirez, who depended on feeding tubes for food and water, would certainly have died in circumstances very similar to the tragic 2005 death of Terri Schindler-Schiavo.
On May 30, Jesse Ramirez and his wife Rebecca Ramirez were quarreling in their SUV when he lost control and crashed into a pottery market, ejecting them both from the vehicle. Ramirez suffered a broken neck and major head-trauma, while his wife had only minor injuries.
Just before the accident, Rebecca had attempted to jump from the moving vehicle saying she was afraid of her husband, who accused her of marital infidelity. Police have yet to determine what exactly led Ramirez to lose control of the wheel.
Ten days after the accident and Ramirezs PVS diagnosis, Rebecca ordered the hospice where he was staying to remove his feeding tubes on June 8. Ramirez family then began pleading with her to let them try and save his life.
I'm asking you for the biggest favor of my life, Jesses father told her. Can you give my son another chance? Jesse Ramirez Sr. told the Arizona Republic she then hung up on him.
In desperation, the family turned to the Scottsdale-based Alliance Defense Fund, which challenged the prudence of allowing Rebecca to arbitrate her husbands fate, considering their recent marital strife.
We've got to make sure the decision-maker is the very best and most capable one, senior counsel Gary McCaleb told the Arizona Republic. She said she was in fear of her life. Ten days later, she's going to say whether he lives or dies? Frankly, it's too much to ask of the wife.
Maricopa County Superior Court judge Paul Katz agreed and ordered the tubes reconnected while an independent attorney mediated between Rebecca Ramirez and Jesses family and talked to Jesse's doctors. Then Tuesday Katz ruled that a court-appointed guardian would make decisions for Ramirez while the court continued to investigate his health.
As we have discussed here previously, PVS is often misdiagnosed. More importantly, it can't be done accurately after only a few weeks post trauma. So, why the rush in this case to write the man off? commented bioethics expert and author Wesley J. Smith on his blog. This much is sure: But for parents willing to fight for his life, Ramirez would be dead today rather than entering the rehabilitation unit.
“I wonder how the culture of death FRiberals will try to explain this away.”
[He] can hug and kiss, nod his head, answer yes and no questions, give a thumbs-up sign and sit in a chair.
They’ll say: “Well, he can’t tap dance or do long division in his head, so he really doesn’t have much of a life. Snuff him!”
P.S. I can’t do either of those two things. ;)
On a more serious note, we have a situation like this developing in our own family. My Dad’s new wife (they’re both 70; nice Love Story) has a daughter who is 40, has a 9 and five year old son & daughter and is in a vegetative state right now. They don’t know if she tried to kill herself (she does have depression issues, but was taking her meds properly) or if her vindictive Ex-husband did something to her. She left no note. Her boyfriend, who is a Fireman, found her unresponsive when her school called him to report that she hadn’t shown up for her last day of teaching. He revived her, and now she’s in this state. It’ll be two weeks, tomorrow.
Anyway, it’s not looking good. She has no cognitive brain action, though her organs are all fine and she can breath on her own. Her brain is pretty much “dead” from half way up, her brain stem is still OK, which is what’s keeping her body alive.
I really feel for my “step-Mom” who will end up making the decision as to what happens to her daughter. It’s absolutely horrific what she’s going through. (I’ve only met the daughter once so far; we all live far apart.)
But miracles DO happen, as this man has proven.
Water for brains or meat for brains; who really deserves to live? /s
There are a number of threads here (that were all effectively buried by the mainstream media) of miraculous recoveries.
Trolls and telemarketers, they always show up at dinner time!!!
Don’t forget calcium, because if your bones get too soft and you can’t used utensils to feed yourself you are a “worthless eater” and the “humane” thing will be to let you die.
I’ll keep your step sister in my prayers, as well as the family.
Any idea what the cause of the brain damage was? I hope that the extent of damage will allow for recovery.
Supposedly, she drank booze and NyQuil, but we don’t have the toxicology reports back yet to see what else was in her. They counted her pills and all that should have been there were there.
It seems very weird, but then, I can hardly get a dose of NyQuil past my lips in the first place.
Thanks for the thoughts & prayers. I didn’t want to do a Vanity on this until I had more facts to go by. Hard to imagine NyQuil and booze would mess her up so badly. You’d think she’d barf it out before then.
Again, it’s a very weird situation. No solid facts of any type at this time.
If she didn’t take her pills for several weeks and took them all at once, that would do it.
We read case after case like this. When will people wake up?
“Dont forget calcium, - - - “
Truer words were never spoken. I’ll have to remember to stop by a Publix market and get more Otter Paws ice cream.
Alcohol can have a severe interaction with certain prescription drugs. It could very well have been accidental.
The priority now is to get her the best treatment. I would recommend having her examined by a neurologist, who will then meet with the family to discuss options. Ask questions, and take notes. This is a critical time in the recovery process, so don’t be timid.
Who has the children? Are the police investigating?
What a sad situation.
The problem with this article is that it does not say how much insurance is involved!
There have been several recent stories here. One was about a man who was in a coma for like 20 years. Another was about a woman who woke up after being in a coma for a long time, talked to family, ate cake, and went back into the coma. Just think if these people had been killed like Terri.
Don’t despair, miracles do happen. My little brother had a stroke May 19, massive blood clot in his lung. I spent the week 5/21-5/25 in Toledo visiting him at the Med. University of Toledo Neuro ICU, along with his wife of 21 years and four children.
It was awful, eyes open, no apparent cognitive function, trach and feeding tubes, brain swelling, BP and heart rate all over the place. The doctors said much the same thing, his organs were functioning well but they didn’t hold out much hope of recovery.
By the grace of God he is beginning to recover. Greg has spoken a little, he recognizes his family and interacts with them, holding his five year old son Casey’s hand to his cheek, kissing his wife. He responds to verbal requests (consistently with his wife, less so with strangers).
His wife Sue says he has even been a little playful at times.
Last Friday she tells me he took three steps using the paralell bars. Soon, his doctor’s say, they will be able to remove the trach tube, after that heals the feeding tube in his side will be removed next. Recovery will probably be long and difficult and the extent is unknowable right now but he is lucky to have a loving and loyal wife. Sue has been at his side constantly since it happened and I believe her presence is one of the most important factors in his recovery.
It was two to three weeks before Greg began to show any response, so don’t despair. I wish all the best for you and your family, hang in there.
I’m with you, Saundra. Terri’s death haunts me to this day.
God bless Paul Katz, the wise judge in this case.
Nice list! I wonder if the troll is still only on aisle 44 or if he has moved on to check out if he can find “vegetables.”
I’m no troll. For this guy to recover, all he had to do was wake up. He hadn’t spent years upon years in a coma which had seen his brain turn essentially to liquid, removing all vestiges of the personality that formed the person he was. That is the situation poor Mrs. Schiavo was in. That situation is far more complex and difficult to recover from, requiring Almighty God to completely rebuild the brain from the cellular level and then reimplant it with all the memories and emotions and humanity that made her who she was. So no, this guy was not “like Terri Schiavo” in any way except his malady, and to claim that he was is incredibly intellectually dishonest.
Either you are TOTALLY MISINFORMED or you are LYING. You claim that you aren't a troll, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt and presume that you are misinformed.
Terri WAS NOT in a coma when her death was ordered and she hadn't been in a comatose state for years and had NEVER been comatose for an extended period. Terri's condition deteriorated after her estranged spouse illegally refused to spend on her rehabilitation even though the court awarded the money for that express purpose.
There are plenty of resources right here on FR and people who will tell you the TRUTH about Terri's condition and what was done to her
I think this is one of the big reasons they really don’t like me:
Just for the sake of your incredible intellectual honesty, would you be so good as to show us any medical record that Terri was in a coma "years upon years"? That her brain was "essentially ... liquid"? That Terri had been deprived of "all vestiges of [her] personality"?
You might also give us your theory of how she was injured.
According to the decision of the court in 2000, to a large extent her brain had been replaced by spinal fluid, and her movements were reflexive and predicated on brain stem activity alone.
First of all, a court can decide what it thinks is the truth based on testimony; but obviously, when it comes to a person’s brain, they have no absolute way of knowing if they are correct or not. However, here are links to over three dozen sworn affidavits that shed a lot more light on Terri’s condition:
And here is a link to Terri’s autopsy report and related articles. (Keep in mind that thirteen days without food or hydration can and will have significant effects on all body tissue):
It should also be noted the court, in 2000, examined the CAT scans at that time to reach their determination. I would imagine if those images showed anything other than her brain having been replaced by spinal fluid, the argument would have been fairly easy to prove.
And the CAT scan results were disputed by plenty of other professionals.
Yep. Sharon is on it. She’ll be like a bulldog on a bone over this, knowing her. She has met with the neurologist, but I haven’t had a chance to talk to her yet about their conversation.
The kids are with various relatives in the area. They have a nice Grandma, the mother of the loser Ex-Husband, and Sharon has them at times. It is really sad. They’re nice kids.
My Dad’s fear is that he’ll end up raising a 9 & 5 year old at his ripe old age, but I know he’ll rise to the occasion if need be.
And yes, the police are involved.
Thanks. I appreciate you sharing your story. :)
I’ve see videos of Terri Schiavo, and she was not in a coma.
I saw one of her laughing at her dad’s joke.
MSM has so misled the public.
A great story.
I guess all these professionals conveniently weren’t available in 2000, since the court decision makes no mention of testimony disputing the images of the CAT scan.
I have always found it odd that FReepers who understand how much blatantly agenda-driven the media is are so willing to accept their erroneous accounts of Terri’s condition.
Perhaps you should read this:
And let me ask you something, how is it that a woman who was so brain damaged, as you claim, able to experience the “euphoria” that Michael Schiavo’s lawyer claimed?
Oh yeah! That would do it. But I think the FRiberals hated you even before that.
Read some of the stuff here:
Terri was awarded money for her rehabilitation, it was NEVER used for that. The moment he got the check, her estranged husband moved her into the hospice and started court proceedings to kill her.
Blessed are ye when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake: Be glad and rejoice, for your reward is very great in heaven. For so they persecuted the prophets that were before you.
-- Matthew 5:10-12
Satan speaks ill of all that is good. Just look at the nasty things he’s saying about Terri on this thread. I don’t understand why anyone would allow Satan to speak through them.
Here is more on Terri’s autopsy, it is VERY DIFFERENT from what was reported in the mainstream media:
There you go supplying actual documents again. How are the disruptors supposed to convince lurkers of their made-up diagnoses (like “dissolved brain”) when you supply the actual autopsy report?
You mean like the years Terri spent in a coma?
It’s much easier for some to accept what they’re told than it is to question it’s validity. And then when the unjustifiable actions become government policy, they can just claim they were following orders.
I wonder if they realize that this excuse didn’t seem to work at the Nuremberg Trials.
“I wonder how the culture of death FRiberals will try to explain this away.”
They don’t care.
So many lessons here.
It certainly seems one’s fate (life or death) depends on which state a person is in (say, for instance, Arizona vs. Florida).
“She said she was in fear of her life. Ten days later, she’s going to say whether he lives or dies? Frankly, it’s too much to ask of the wife.
I don’t see a lot of room between this situation and the Schiavo case.
This is another excellent reminder to wear your car’s seat belt.
Yes, it makes a big difference in your odds of survival. You might be surprised to know that your odds are actually better in Florida than in Arizona. Arizona starves and dehydrates a higher percentage of their disabled population than Florida does.
In 1999, 10.4% of the severely cognitively impaired residents of the United States were starved and dehydrated to death.
In 2000, 11.0% of the severely cognitively impaired residents of the United States were starved and dehydrated to death.
In 2001, 11.4% of the severely cognitively impaired residents of the United States were starved and dehydrated to death.
I haven't found data yet for other years, but I think it's a fair guess that the killings continue to climb.
This doesn't represent a percentage of patients who died (which would be bad enough). It doesn't mean that 11.4% of the patients who died were starved and dehydrated. It means 11.4% of all the people living in the U.S.A. with severe cognitive impairments were killed this way. And it doesn't include the ones who were killed using other methods, such as denial of antibiotics for simple infections, cessation of kidney dialysis, removal of breathing assistance, etc. There are some very barbaric methods being used.
The standard used for determining severe cognitive impairment for the purpose of this study is a score of 5 or less on the Mini Mental State Examination (MMSE). Patients in a coma or PVS cannot possibly score 1, much less 5. You've probably seen people in the grocery store with a score of 5 or less. So these killings include a wide range of brain damaged people. I wonder how many thousands of people are living with a score of 5 or less. And for every 1,000 people living with a score of 5 or less in the year 2001, 114 of them were starved and dehydrated to death that year.
All I have before me are the percentages. I'd like to see the corresponding numbers. Or would I?
Following is the breakdown by state for 2001. Notice that Rhode Island tops the list, with just over a third of that population exterminated this way. That might have something to do with the fact that RI has appointed the pro-euthanasia group Choice in Dying the official State agency in charge of informing the public about end-of-life choices. They supply forms for living wills and assist the public in filling out those forms. This is what happens when you put the fox in charge of the henhouse.
Believe it or not, Florida and Texas are both below the national average. Every state is on the list. Georgia is at the bottom of the list, exterminating only 1.30% this way. But like I said, this doesn't include people who were exterminated using other methods.
RI - 33.80%
OR - 32.50%
MI - 28.30%
MT - 28.00%
WI - 27.20%
CA - 23.40%
UT - 23.40%
AZ - 20.90%
PA - 17.40%
MN - 17.20%
AK - 17.10%
CT - 15.40%
WY - 14.90%
MD - 14.60%
NM - 14.20%
SD - 14.10%
WA - 13.20%
OH - 12.90%
ID - 12.30%
IA - 12.10%
MO - 11.90%
National Average - 11.4%
VT - 11.20%
HI - 11.10%
DE - 10.80%
ND - 10.80%
MA - 9.90%
IN - 9.70%
ME - 9.20%
NH - 8.70%
NY - 8.50%
NE - 7.70%
CO - 7.20%
AL - 7.10%
TX - 7.10%
IL - 6.70%
WV - 6.70%
KY - 6.60%
SC - 6.50%
TN - 6.30%
FL - 6.20%
NV - 6.20%
AR - 5.70%
NC - 5.20%
KS - 4.80%
NJ - 4.80%
OK - 4.10%
LA - 3.70%
VA - 3.60%
DC - 3.10%
MS - 3.00%
GA - 1.30%
Facts On Dying ~ This study was funded by The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, who adamantly opposes the rights of vulnerable people to continue living. So if any trolls show up, complaining that the data is skewed in favor of life, check the facts and get back to me.