Posted on 07/05/2007 2:06:23 PM PDT by neverdem
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By Kati Whitaker
BBC Radio 4's Crossing Continents
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In the aftermath of the Virginia Tech massacre, many Americans have been campaigning for permission to carry guns in more places, even churches and schools.
"Imagine you are in a restaurant and a mad man is walking around from table to table, pointing a gun, taking aim and pulling the trigger, going to the next person, taking aim, pulling the trigger and so on," says Suzanna Hupp.
"Even if you have chosen not to have a gun with you - don't you hope the guy behind you has one? Just imagine that."
But Suzanna Hupp does not have to imagine.
It was October 1991 when a gunman entered the diner where Suzanna, a Texan chiropractor, was having lunch with her parents.
The man methodically executed 23 people including Suzanna's parents.
Suzanna had a gun. But since Texan state law at the time banned people from carrying guns in public places, she had left it in her car.
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Nobody could have stopped the first couple of murders but it sure wouldn't have been a body bag of 32
Suzanna Hupp
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"My gun was 100 feet away in my car, completely useless to me," she says.
"I was angry at my legislators because they had legislated me out of the right to protect myself and my family."
The massacre was, until Virginia Tech, the largest mass shooting by a single gunman in the US.
Now, in the wake of that tragedy, Suzanna is one of a growing body of Americans campaigning for the availability of more, rather than fewer, guns.
"Nobody could have stopped that guy from the first couple of murders but it sure wouldn't have been a body bag total of 32," she says.
Gun sales
Statistics are hard to come by, but at Saxet Gun Show in Austin Texas, there was plenty of anecdotal evidence to back the claim that since Virginia Tech, more Texans, at least, are now applying for licences to carry guns.
At a huge convention centre in the southern suburbs of Austin, Judith Baker of A Texas Girl's Guns firearm sales company was talking a young woman through the safety features on her new handgun.
"Gun sales have gone up since Virginia Tech. Not just my own sales but many dealers and distributors have also increased their gun sales," she says.
"And we are not just talking men here but I am seeing a lot more women wanting to get their concealed handgun licence.
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HAVE YOUR SAY
Nothing will stop the killing until America changes its attitude to the gun
John, Manchester
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"I am glad to see that women are learning to protect themselves."
Some 48 states in the US issue licences to allow the carrying of concealed weapons to those who pass a background check.
But states vary in their restrictions. Thirty eight states, including Virginia, ban weapons at schools.
In Texas, certain places like churches, courthouses and schools, are designated "gun-free zones".
It is an exception that Texas governor Rick Perry recently challenged with the wholehearted endorsement of campaigners like Suzanna Hupp.
"It is my fervent belief that when legislators create a list of places where people can't carry guns, what they have actually done is create a shopping list for a mad man," he said.
Guns in classes
Andrew Sugg is a student of aviation science at Baylor University at Waco and a member of the newly formed national body Students for Concealed Carry on Campus.
He is spearheading a campaign for students to be allowed to carry concealed firearms into the classroom.
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PROGRAMME INFORMATION
BBC Radio 4's Crossing Continents was broadcast on Thursday, 5 July at 1102 BST
Listen to the programme
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"I actually got angry that Virginia Tech had said 'no you can't have a gun', and here's this incident, the second-largest school shooting in the world and no-one could do anything about it," he says.
"Now, when I walk into my own class, I have to think: 'Where do I want to sit so I can make a quick getaway?'
"I look at my book bag and think: 'What can I throw at someone who comes through the door? What could I do to stall him and let everybody get away or what can I do to stop him from doing this?'."
It is a mindset that is of considerable worry to the campus police force.
Lethal combination?
Baylor University has a dedicated force of 24 police officers who are trained and drilled to respond to a firearms attack such as that at Virginia Tech.
Its chief, James Doak, said that the potential for strife is considerable among its 14,000 18-to-22 years-olds - whether it is stress of exams, girlfriend problems or simply hot tempers.
Add guns to the equation and the combination could be lethal.
"We cannot rely on students who have not been drilled in these situations to respond properly. Would they freeze up? Would they have a sense of terror in their hearts so they respond inappropriately?" he says.
"Our officers have a level of life experience which students can't possibly have at the age of 21 or 22."
But like many other Americans, Mr Sugg points to the Second Amendment, the right to keep and bear arms, as a fundamental justification for his position.
"Guns are to me a freedom, that is what won us our freedom during the revolutionary war and we've had them ever since," he says.
BBC Radio 4's Crossing Continents was broadcast on Thursday, 5 July 2007 at 1102 BST.
It will be repeated on Monday, 9 July 2007 at 2030 BST.
Exactly, I'll bet if you checked, you'd find that many of his officers aren't all that much older than the students, and they are unlikely to have any experience, such as military, that some of the students will have had, say in the National Guard, or Reserves, in Iraq or Afghanistan.
A whole 24 officers. Let's see 3 shifts, that's down to 8 actually on duty at any given time. Some will be on vacation, at least one will be at a desk. Say 7 officers on duty. To protect 14,000 students in dozens of buildings across several 10s of acres of land. The newest residence hall alone is 212,000-square-feet. Yeah, 7 cops are going to take *how long* to respond to a nutjob *somewhere* in all that?
At least let the faculty, staff and grad students be armed if they choose to be.
Less than that of course. There's weekends so say 3 shift/day x 7 days/week or 21 shifts per week, with 24 officers x 5 shifts/week/officer or 120 " officer shifts" to cover them. That gets it down to 40/7 or under 6 officers per shift, not counting vacations, the officer in the "command post/office", and the Chief. Say five per shift and you're probably still over estimating the number available in less than an hour.
A lot can happen in an hour.
Yeah, that line caught me, too; whatta crock.
If you factor in all the kids out there playing paintball, hunting with their Dads/Grandfathers/Uncles, logging time with FPS video/computer games (that teach THINKING and PLANNING -- hello? STRATEGY? -- not just visceral reaction), there's a REALLY good chance that the 21 or 22 year old student knows PLENTY, and it probably goes a bit farther than "two to the center of mass, count two; add one to the head if it's still moving".
Try this on for size:
http://www.americasarmy.com/
Hupp Hupp Hooray !
She is a Texas legend with regards to her RKBA and CHL efforts.......Now if she can get Texas to go the way of Vermont and Alaska who recognize the 2nd as something we don;t have to license and set fees for .......
IIRC, Wyoming almost did that by getting it passed by one house of its legislature.
I knew that they had to get their anti-gun message in somewhere, but they did hold off for more paragraphs than I would have guessed (unless I missed something before last 7 or 8 paragraphs.)
Hope they get it done...........lord knows it’s needed !
Stay safe !
A 1911 or an XD?
“My gun was 100 feet away in my car, completely useless to me,” she says.
“I was angry at my legislators because they had legislated me out of the right to protect myself and my family.”
That’s a good example of why stupid laws should be broken.
... and weren't the police at Virginia Tech trained and drilled?
There might be some faults in the way the VT police responded, but by and large the problem is that they can't be everywhere all the time. I don't know off the top of my head how big the Baylor campus is, but I bet it's big enough that there can't be a cop within close range of everywhere, even in the impossible case that all 24 officers are on duty 24/7.
I’ve been eyeing the XD .45 myself. The specs are great, and I’ve held one — I have pretty small hands, and I’m amazed that 13 rounds of .45 ACP fit in that compact package.
Before I pull the trigger (ahem) on the purchase, I’d like to find a range that has one for rent, so I can put a few mags through one before I buy. I’m also tempted by the CZ, because it allows swapping out the works so I can plink away with .22 before practicing with the more expensive ammo.
XD
"When seconds count,
The police are only minutes away".
Hey don’t forget SASS single action cowboy shooters, the three guns of the old west, lever action rifle, shotgun and pistol. I became more proficient with a firearm with 15 years in SASS that I ever was with 20 plus years as a deputy sheriff in law enforcement. There’s also three gun modern firearm competition that’s out there. Someone else talked about 21 year olds handling firearms, about 60 years ago in our history maybe more kids took guns to school and stored them with their lunch bags and their coats for protection to and from school or to shoot game. I’ve noticed that as far as our freedoms this country seems to be devolving.
Gun freedom is to be able to shoot a terriost before they shoot you.
I’ve shot a friend’s XD45 and liked it a lot, I’ve got an XD9 which is also fine. They’re both great value IMHO.
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