Posted on 09/05/2007 6:53:12 PM PDT by RedRover
Edited on 09/05/2007 7:18:35 PM PDT by Lead Moderator. [history]
No Jude 24, the UCMJ is a broken entity- as Tim Harrington is uncovering with his investigations. The UCMJ was able to limp along in a pre-Iraq War environment. The gov would charge military personnel- the NCIS would manufacture, coerce and change statements so the defendants would plea bargain the cases and not reach Article 32’s.( I’m trying to find the statistics as per plea bargain versus Article 32 versus court martial. I will find them eventually.) Along came the Iron Triangle, Hamandia and Haditha cases. The government made the charges, the NCIS kept to its way. Manufacture, coerce and change statements to gain incriminating evidence. In the Iron triangle Case Sgt Ray Giourard put up the fight and went to court. The governemnt’s tactics are being scrutinized in that case. In Hamandia, the tactics of the NCIS are being scrutinized and
the verdict is still out in the Houchins case.(destroyed thumb drives, missing orders, identity of victim, Scan Eagle Video tapes—Harrington and Racebannon will uncover that one)In Haditha, well we are seeing the outcomes of this one. Good civilian defense attorneys picking apart the governments “web of lies.” Picking apart the NCIS and their unscrupulous lies and evidence. Now you are complaining of scarce resources.. This is the US government which spent 40 million and hundreds of thousands of manhours trying to manufacture a case. 100 NCIS agents trying to dig up “evidence” against Our Haditha Marines.
No jude 24, you continue your law studies and become one of these JAGS, I salute you in your endeavors. With the Vokey firing and the Mendoza to Chicago revelation. we here at FR know the truth and eventually this system will self destruct. It is falling apart as I write.
Proud father of Haditha Marine LCpl Justin Sharratt
One pi$$ed off American taxpayer
God Bless Our Haditha Marines
Darryl Sharratt
I wonder how much Murtha paid Ms. Favors to pull this shenanigan.
Just kidding.
Sorta.
Thanks for that description on undue influence; it’s what we’ve all been noticing since the start of these show trials. We can only hope that some type of censure will take place to Murtha and his enablers, both within and without the DoD.
Unfrikin’ believable....
You're relatively new here, but maybe you could go back and read through some of the other Haditha threads so you can understand just how important and emotional this is to many of us and how vital it is for everyone to stay focused. There is enough (corruption) going on just with these cases, they're too important and impact too many lives to insert some kind of DU "fraud and waste" whistle blower nonsense.
If this is an important issue for you then by all means post an article on your own thread where people can discuss it. To me, the lives of Marines who have fought in some of the toughest battles in Iraq having to come home and fight for their freedom, for families to lose a lifetime of savings is a bit more important than someone who leaks something to (most likely CNN or NY Times) about "fraud and waste" being harassed...especially when you consider how much of both are going on here with NCIS and JAG.
I'll bet those "whistle blowers" aren't a BIT concerned with how much "fraud and waste" has been involved in the persecution of these fine men. Count your blessings it's not your son or daughter facing these charges. I know I do every single day. There but for the grace of God go I.
Cindie
Doesn’t the constitution also provide for right to a vigorous defense? this is pure barbara streisand... it may be in line with UCMJ, but it doesn’t pass the constitutional smell test. They don’t give up their constitutional right to vigorous defense just because they wear the uniform...
The lawyers have f___ked with the UCMJ. As you say, once upon a time a line officer could handle a case. Now there is so much “process” and less chance for a fair verdict.
And I. Amen, amen, and amen.
Pull your cover down tight, cinch your belt a notch, lock and load, it’s fightin’ time.
Now let’s see, you’re jumping on me because I think it’s bad thing that people are being fired for assigning TOO MANY defense attorneys. I don’t get it. I thought we wanted as many defense attorneys as possible.
“To me, the lives of Marines who have fought in some of the toughest battles in Iraq having to come home and fight for their freedom, for families to lose a lifetime of savings is a bit more important than someone who leaks something to (most likely CNN or NY Times) about “fraud and waste” being harassed...”
The VAST majority of “whistleblowers” don’t go to the media, they report corruption to superiors and sometimes to elected officials. Generally speaking, their “reward” is to be demoted or fired. You think this corruption has no effect on the fighting men and women? Hmmm, I wonder who’s using all those missing weapons and who’s being killed by them?
“Count your blessings it’s not your son or daughter facing these charges. I know I do every single day. There but for the grace of God go I.”
I don’t have a son or daughter in the military and likely never will unless the draft is reinstated. And while I feel for these men and their families, there are those of us who have suffered through even worse. Don’t preach to me about God’s grace.
WOW!!!! The stuff I miss when I’m gone. This is stunning. Maybe Lt. Col. Vokey was supposed to keep his firing as Regional Defense Counsel a secret until after SSgt Wuterich’s hearing was over. Whoops, too bad, he spilled the beans at a time of his choosing. HAHAHAHA.
xzins, your points are well made in post 19. jude, your question about Col. Favors being “angry over misallocation of scarce resources” is a valid one. But she shot herself in the foot. She fired Lt. Col. Vokey in the midst of a hearing of the highest profile case with the highest profile defendant. She drew attention to the fact that the defense is way underfunded compared to the prosecution. She sent a message to other JAG defense lawyers to play by the old rules. Lt. Col. Vokey decided to do what was right for these defendants and for the Marine Corps reputation. He gave them both a fighting chance. She broadcast that keeping order in her little chain was more important than the defense of Marines. I doubt this was her intention, but mission accomplished.
You’ve just gotta stop being GONE!
:>)
Our republic best wakeup.
In the end Rome essentially did the same thing to the same Roman citizen-landowners.
...responsible for defending Rome. ;^)
Then don’t come on to a thread discussing a very specific and try to interject something else. Whistle blowers have NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING to do with Haditha. Start a new thread if this is important to you.
Cindie
Thanks for that c.v.
It could be noted that Col Favors reports in a line to the Marine commandant, Gen Conway, not to Gen Mattis.
I sent Nat a link to this thread and I know we’re read in Pendleton. Maybe you gave them an idea. ;)
Outstanding analysis and questions, chaplain.
Yes, the plot thickens and sickens.
Thank you for that post. Hopefully, we’ll have more news soon about the lawyers’ response.
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