Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

RON PAUL ACCUSED U.S. TROOPS OF WAR CRIMES IN DESERT STORM
The Ron Paul Political Report | October 15, 1991 | Ron Paul

Posted on 11/09/2007 11:27:46 AM PST by LSUfan

The Ron Paul Political Report

October 15 1991

Volume V Number 10

Page 7

American Values?

During the Iraq war, American troops were instructed to use specially equipped tanks to bulldoze the trenches that held Iraqi soldiers- Not a single American was hurt, so meager was the resistance. Thousands of Iraqis, teenagers coerced into the army by the dictator Hussein, were buried alive, while the unprecedented military tactic was hidden from the public through media censorship. Captain Benny Williams, who Led the charge was awarded the Silver Star for his role. Also hidden: the apparent fact that many of the rag-tag teenage soldiers were trying to surrender as they were entombed.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 911truth; 911truther; braindeadzombiecult; desertstorm; libertarians; paul; paulbearers; paulestinians; randpaultruthfile; ronpaul; ronpaultruthfile; warcrimes; zot; zotwonderfulzot; zotzotzotzot
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 181-200201-220221-240 ... 261-271 next last
To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
First they laugh at you

Then they laugh at you harder...

Then they laugh at you even harder...

Then they passout from laughing too hard....

Then they laugh some more...

Repeat...

201 posted on 11/10/2007 6:52:48 AM PST by ejonesie22 (Real voters in real voting booths will elect FDT.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 196 | View Replies]

To: LSUfan

RON PAUL IS REVOLTING !

Mrs. Esopman


202 posted on 11/10/2007 7:27:16 AM PST by esopman (Blessings on Freepers Everywhere (and Their Most Intelligent Designer))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: esopman

Shouldn’t it be rEVOLting?


203 posted on 11/10/2007 7:57:45 AM PST by mnehring (I am free not to support Ron Paul... Wow, I feel special...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 202 | View Replies]

To: traviskicks

The Barbary Pirates, it could be argued, didn’t directly attack us, yet we fought them.
We were attacked on 9/11, and we have since gone after those who supported it financially or militarily.
(Ever hear of Salman Pak?)

Sticking your head in the sand does nothing.

And funny, when we intervened in Guam, there wasn’t any blowback from that.
Your broadbrush statement falls short of the mark.


204 posted on 11/10/2007 8:35:10 AM PST by Darksheare (Cordite Chipmunk, the Splodent Rodent.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 186 | View Replies]

To: LSUfan
I have to admit, I don't really understand this Ron Paul phenom. Can someone point out some resources so I can learn about it?

All I know is that things I hear that he says and also what his followers do just doesn't feel right. It is sorta like figuring out who all the anarchists are and how they organize...under the radar but manifesting great energy.

Thanks
205 posted on 11/10/2007 9:25:37 AM PST by BillCompton
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BillCompton

I think these two links will provide some info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ron_Paul

http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/10/ron_pauls_record_on_economic_i.php


206 posted on 11/10/2007 12:33:57 PM PST by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 205 | View Replies]

Comment #207 Removed by Moderator

To: Kevmo; Wallace T.; Salo; Defiant; GOPJ; RaceBannon; Petronski; bmwcyle; river rat; KevinDavis; ...
To everyone who posted in this thread (unless I have a typo in your freepernick)

kevmo;wallace T.;salo;defiant;GOPJ;racebannon;petronski;bmwcyle;river rat;kevindavis;incindiary;mindbender26;mgstarr;mcgruff;bigjoesaddle;extremely extreme extremist;appypappy;wideawake;sjackson;lsufan;dighton;moose4;darksheare;a ca guy;vbmoneyspender;billcompton;bray;gswarrior;constantine XIII;marysecretary;allegra;Iwo Jima;RavenATB;mnehrling;NautiNurse;ElectricStrawberry;Puddleglum;montag813;gitmo;trisham;esopman;darkwing104;submarinerswife;numberonepal;evets;kenttrappedinliberalseattle;uncledick;arrowhead1952;starcmc;mnjohnnie;the ghost of freepers past;traviskicks;ob1knob;rightwingintelligentsia;massgopguy;mredd;toddlintown;ejonesie22;desscorp;-=SoylentSquirrel=-;vietnam vet from new mexico;ncbraveheart;mr apple;ferox

I was disturbed enough by the allegations to go search out info on this story.

THESE EVENTS DID HAPPEN AS DESCRIBED, on Feb. 24, 1991, under Maj. Gen. Thomas G. Rhame, the Big Red One, First Infantry (Mechanized)

Ron Paul was running a very small newsletter before the advent of the internet to level the playing field regarding the dissemination of information. At the time he wrote the blurb about the bulldozing, he was repeating a widely known series of incidents that occurred with the 1ID spearheading the gulf war invasion. To: LSUfan

Frontline Transcript on the trench bulldozing incidents.

NARRATOR: The American 1st Infantry Division had the job of storming the trenches to clear a path for the tanks. To avoid hand-to-hand fighting, they planned to bury the Iraqi defenders alive.

Col. LON MAGGART, 1st Infantry Division: A thought occurred to me, we could actually use these plows to fill in the trenches. In fact, I had tested it myself. I got down in the ditch myself and had two tanks plow towards me, just to see what it did.

I learned several things and one is I learned that it happens very quickly, so the defender has a choice to make, but he has to make it very quickly. He can either give up and hop out of the trench, he can try to run down the trench and get away, but he better do those quickly because these things move at amazing speed down there.

NARRATOR: Along the Iraqi border ran a sand barrier, a berm. Beyond that lay five miles of minefields and then the Iraqi trenches.

1st U.S. SOLDIER: We got the first one, first berm in a minute.

2nd U.S. SOLDIER: That's real good. The second one's a tougher one.

NARRATOR: Armored bulldozers and tanks fitted with plows broke through the berm and moved on to the trenches. Eighteen-year-old Joe Queen drove one of the lead bulldozers.

JOE QUEEN: What we did is we just took the dirt that the Iraqi soldiers had dug out_ we just pushed that dirt right back into the trench. You could just look at the man's eyes and see fear. You know, you see him scared. You know, you're looking at a man's_ the whites of his eyes as you're going through in the trench with this bulldozer, covering in the trench.

And they were firing at the bulldozer and the first bullet that hit the blade, that made me know then, "Hey, look. This is for real. There's no game. Those are real bullets and a bullet would kill you."

NARRATOR: After the war, press accounts reported thousands of Iraqis were buried. Most independent analysts estimate it was just hundreds. The Army says it was about 150.

JOE QUEEN: You don't think about, "Hey, what about this guy? What about that guy?" He had a chance to get out. He had every opportunity to get out and he took the way to die for his country, just like any American would.

NARRATOR: By the end of the ground war's first day, all of Schwarzkopf's horses were on the attack.

Gen. NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF: I went to bed that night very satisfied with the fact that the campaign plan was unfolding and that_ that it looked like we were going to have a terrific success and_ you know, and accomplish everything we wanted to accomplish.

NARRATOR: In Washington that Sunday, President Bush had received little news. If there were heavy U.S. casualties, it could finish him politically and could even stop the war.

RICHARD CHENEY, Secretary of Defense: I got briefed just before I went into the church. The president was right ahead of me. I passed him a note that said, "Mr. President, things are going very well." We all went back to the White House. I got out a map from Time magazine, just sort of showing exactly what was happening, and I was able to tell him there that things were going extraordinarily well.

We had assumed that the toughest part of the ground war, in terms of casualties, would have been the early hours of that conflict and, in fact, what we were finding was that the air war had been enormously effective and decimated the Iraqi forces and that they, in fact, were collapsing in front of us.

NARRATOR: But in Riyadh the allied commander was having a bad morning.

http://www.1stid.org/history/index.cfm

On the morning of Feb. 24, 1991, under Maj. Gen. Thomas G. Rhame, the Big Red One spearheaded the armored attack into Iraq, by creating the all-important breach in Iraqi defenses that enabled VII Corps units to smash into Iraq. The Division broke through the enemy defensive lines, decimated the Iraqi 26th Inf. Div. by and took over 2,500 prisoners. After the breachhead was secured, the British 1st Armored Division was allowed to advance and pass through the Big Red One. This kept up the momentum of the coalition force's attack. The Division then followed and drove to the east deep into enemy territory.

----------------------------

Further info: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gulf/appendix/death.html

How many Iraqis died?

Independent analysts generally agree the Iraqi death toll was well below initial post-war estimates. In the immediate aftermath of the war, these estimates ranged as high as 100,000 Iraqi troops killed and 300,000 wounded.

According to "Gulf War Air Power Survey" by Thomas A. Keaney and Eliot A. Cohen, (a report commissioned by the U.S. Air Force; 1993-ISBN 0-16-041950-6), there were an estimated 10-12,000 Iraqi combat deaths in the air campaign and as many as 10,000 casualties in the ground war. This analysis is based on enemy prisoner of war reports.

The Iraqi government says 2,300 civilians died during the air campaign.

One infamous incident during the war highlighted the question of large-scale Iraqi combat deaths. This was the `bulldozer assault' in which two brigades from the U.S. Army's 1st Infantry Division (Mechanized)--The Big Red One--used plows mounted on tanks and combat earthmovers to bury Iraqi soldiers defending the fortified "Saddam Line."

While approximately 2,000 of the troops surrendered, escaping burial, one newspaper story reported that the U.S. commanders estimated thousands of Iraqi soldiers had been buried alive during the two-day assault February 24-25, 1991.

However, like all other troop estimates made during the war, the estimated 8,000 Iraqi defenders was probably greatly inflated. While one commander thought the numbers might have been in the thousands, another reported his brigade buried between 80 and 250 Iraqis. After the war, the Iraqi government found 44 bodies.


208 posted on 11/12/2007 5:15:48 AM PST by JerseyHighlander
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JerseyHighlander
There's no question they happened, the incident was widely reported at the time.

In Ron Paul's and your mind they're war crimes, in mine and many others they're not.

A simple disagreement.

Paul should be proud to run on his position that American forces commit war crimes.

As you know they slaughter civilians as well.

Ron Paul: US "military is mowing civilians down in the streets"

Just the few articles posted here last week answer the question of why Paul has refused to make copies of his newsletter available to the media.

209 posted on 11/12/2007 5:27:04 AM PST by SJackson (every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and figtree, none to make him afraid,)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 208 | View Replies]

To: JerseyHighlander; gitmo
And I will respond to you with the words of gitmo from post #17...

And what does RP think these soldiers should have done? If the enemy refuses to surrender, you use the safest means available to destroy them.

So what do YOU think they should have done? Invited them over for tea and crumpets? It was war. They had the option to surrender. They chose to die. I will not lose sleep over that.

210 posted on 11/12/2007 5:28:08 AM PST by StarCMC (http://cannoneerno4.wordpress.com/2007/08/11/school-of-the-counterpropagandist/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 208 | View Replies]

To: JerseyHighlander

There’s a place for you Ron Paul supporters and it’s not here.


211 posted on 11/12/2007 5:29:25 AM PST by McGruff (A "Big Time" Fred Thompson supporter!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 208 | View Replies]

To: Darksheare

Hey Darks! *waves*


212 posted on 11/12/2007 5:29:36 AM PST by StarCMC (http://cannoneerno4.wordpress.com/2007/08/11/school-of-the-counterpropagandist/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 204 | View Replies]

To: LSUfan

>>>>>Not a single American was hurt

They would have been happier if some had been hurt or died.


213 posted on 11/12/2007 5:30:54 AM PST by MindBender26 (Having my own CAR-15 in Vietnam meant never having to say I was sorry......)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: StarCMC

Ron Perot supporters would rather our soldiers die than Iraqis. Talk about a sick cult.

Pray for W and Our Victorious Freedom Fighters


214 posted on 11/12/2007 5:30:56 AM PST by bray (Think "Betray U.S." Think Democrat)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 210 | View Replies]

To: JerseyHighlander; Allegra

Rachel Corrie couldn’t have said it any better.


215 posted on 11/12/2007 5:35:58 AM PST by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle ("Ron Paul and his flaming antiwar spam monkeys can Kiss my Ass!!" -- Jim Robinson, 09/30/07)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 208 | View Replies]

To: bray

Amen bray, amen!


216 posted on 11/12/2007 5:40:42 AM PST by StarCMC (http://cannoneerno4.wordpress.com/2007/08/11/school-of-the-counterpropagandist/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 214 | View Replies]

To: JerseyHighlander
(1) The events did not happen "as described" despite your claims to the contrary.

(2) 44 Iraqi soldiers died in combat when their defensive position was bulldozed. A combat death is a combat death, not a war crime.

(3) At the time that Paul wrote about it, the story was wild-eyed speculation - and predictably the facts of the case were far different from the initial speculation.

(4) Yet Paul, writing before any investigation and possessing no hard information, immediately leapt to attack US soldiers as war criminals before any facts were out. Murtha anyone? Kerry anyone?

(5) It is obvious that Ron Paul's default ideological position is "I hate America and its military." He is beneath contempt.

217 posted on 11/12/2007 5:42:51 AM PST by wideawake (Why is it that so many self-proclaimed "Constitutionalists" know so little about the Constitution?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 208 | View Replies]

To: wideawake

Game Set Match. Any patriot who would support this should support Turda as well. Now we know where the cultists stand.

Hey Paulistas, there are some Marines you may want Shanghaied as well.

Pray for W and Our Amazing Troops


218 posted on 11/12/2007 5:48:09 AM PST by bray (Think "Betray U.S." Think Democrat)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 217 | View Replies]

To: JerseyHighlander; KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle
Wow. You and Ron Paul must really hate America and our troops.

I'll bet if you posted that agenda-driven media drivel over on DU, you'd be a hero there.

219 posted on 11/12/2007 5:56:01 AM PST by Allegra (Greetings from a kinder, gentler Iraq. God bless US and Coalition Forces.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 208 | View Replies]

To: wideawake

1) The events did not happen “as described” despite your claims to the contrary.

(2) 44 Iraqi soldiers died in combat when their defensive position was bulldozed. A combat death is a combat death, not a war crime.

(3) At the time that Paul wrote about it, the story was wild-eyed speculation - and predictably the facts of the case were far different from the initial speculation.

(4) Yet Paul, writing before any investigation and possessing no hard information, immediately leapt to attack US soldiers as war criminals before any facts were out. Murtha anyone? Kerry anyone?

(5) It is obvious that Ron Paul’s default ideological position is “I hate America and its military.” He is beneath contempt.


1. The events happened as described by Ron Paul’s small blurb in his newsletter.

During the Iraq war, American troops were instructed to use specially equipped tanks to bulldoze the trenches that held Iraqi soldiers- Not a single American was hurt, so meager was the resistance. - True.

Thousands of Iraqis, teenagers coerced into the army by the dictator Hussein, - True.
Thousands of Iraqis, teenagers coerced into the army by the dictator Hussein, were buried alive, - Probably not true, but Schwarzkopf and the planners, and the Colonels on the ground executed the plan well. Numerically estimates vary from hundreds to a few thousand, still possibly true as Paul wrote, according to DoD’s public reports.
while the unprecedented military tactic was hidden from the public through media censorship. -True.
Captain Benny Williams, who Led the charge was awarded the Silver Star for his role. - True. See my post above.
Also hidden: the apparent fact that many of the rag-tag teenage soldiers were trying to surrender as they were entombed. - True according to first hand reports of the guys driving the bulldozers.

2. The DoD number is over 1200 injured and dead were buried on Feb 24-25 1991.
3. The DoD took until September 1993 to put out a report. Which they gave no mention of any Irawi being buried alive.
4. The facts were already out for a month. There was a clear point to argue over the actions of those two days.
5. You are pathetic to post that. The man is not a saint, but he spent his time in uniform, and doesn’t want current and future US soldiers sent off to die overseas.


220 posted on 11/12/2007 6:03:10 AM PST by JerseyHighlander
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 217 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 181-200201-220221-240 ... 261-271 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson