Posted on 12/08/2007 11:30:00 AM PST by sevenbak
After Thursdays speech by Romney on 'Faith in America', I thought I would share what he did not, nor should he have. This is what he believes about Jesus Christ. It's the statement by the leaders proclaimed to the world at the turn of the millennium, in January 2000.
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The Living Christ: The testimony of the Apostles of the LDS Church.
As we commemorate the birth of Jesus Christ two millennia ago, we offer our testimony of the reality of His matchless life and the infinite virtue of His great atoning sacrifice. None other has had so profound an influence upon all who have lived and will yet live upon the earth.
He was the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament, the Messiah of the New. Under the direction of His Father, He was the creator of the earth. “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made” (John 1:3). Though sinless, He was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. He “went about doing good” (Acts 10:38), yet was despised for it. His gospel was a message of peace and goodwill. He entreated all to follow His example. He walked the roads of Palestine, healing the sick, causing the blind to see, and raising the dead. He taught the truths of eternity, the reality of our premortal existence, the purpose of our life on earth, and the potential for the sons and daughters of God in the life to come.
He instituted the sacrament as a reminder of His great atoning sacrifice. He was arrested and condemned on spurious charges, convicted to satisfy a mob, and sentenced to die on Calvary’s cross. He gave His life to atone for the sins of all mankind. His was a great vicarious gift in behalf of all who would ever live upon the earth.
We solemnly testify that His life, which is central to all human history, neither began in Bethlehem nor concluded on Calvary. He was the Firstborn of the Father, the Only Begotten Son in the flesh, the Redeemer of the world.
He rose from the grave to “become the firstfruits of them that slept” (1 Corinthians 15:20). As Risen Lord, He visited among those He had loved in life. He also ministered among His “other sheep” (John 10:16) in ancient America. In the modern world, He and His Father appeared to the boy Joseph Smith, ushering in the long-promised “dispensation of the fulness of times” (Ephesians 1:10).
Of the Living Christ, the Prophet Joseph wrote: “His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:
“I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father” (D&C 110:3–4).
Of Him the Prophet also declared: “And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!
“For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—
“That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God” (D&C 76:22–24).
We declare in words of solemnity that His priesthood and His Church have been restored upon the earth—“built upon the foundation of … apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone” (Ephesians 2:20).
We testify that He will someday return to earth. “And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together” (Isaiah 40:5). He will rule as King of Kings and reign as Lord of Lords, and every knee shall bend and every tongue shall speak in worship before Him. Each of us will stand to be judged of Him according to our works and the desires of our hearts.
We bear testimony, as His duly ordained Apostles—that Jesus is the Living Christ, the immortal Son of God. He is the great King Immanuel, who stands today on the right hand of His Father. He is the light, the life, and the hope of the world. His way is the path that leads to happiness in this life and eternal life in the world to come. God be thanked for the matchless gift of His divine Son.
Love it when people post this verse. It points directly to their ignorance of the how the Bible was written, compiled, and when the books of the New Testament were written.
The Book of Revelations was written before many of the other books in the New Testament. So those other books were added after Revelations was written. Revelations was also a stand-alone document until compiled into the Bible along with most of what we know of the Bible today.
So by adding those other books that appear in the New Testament does that mean that "God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book." Not good for Bible publishers.
Quoting that verse is actually a pretty rookie mistake people make when trying to refute the LDS Church.
“Christians consider this blasphemous.”
And why is that? Was Abel’s righteousness somehow tainted because his brother Cain choose evil? What does the actions or status of one person have to do with the standing of their siblings? Lucifer was called a ‘son of the morning’, so then who was his father? Where did he come from?
From http://en.fairmormon.org/Jesus_Christ_is_the_brother_of_Satan
Since God was possessed of the greatest foresight for planning, and of the greatest skill for carrying out in action, before He commenced this business of the world,—inasmuch as there was in Him, and always is, the fountain of full and most complete goodness,—in order that goodness might spring as a stream from Him, and might flow forth afar, He produced a Spirit like to Himself, who might be endowed with the perfections of God the Father... Then He made another being, in whom the disposition of the divine origin did not remain. Therefore he was infected with his own envy as with poison, and passed from good to evil; and at his own will, which had been given to him by God unfettered, he acquired for himself a contrary name. From which it appears that the source of all evils is envy. For he envied his predecessor, who through his steadfastness is acceptable and dear to God the Father. This being, who from good became evil by his own act, is called by the Greeks diabolus: we call him accuser, because he reports to God the faults to which he himself entices us. God, therefore, when He began the fabric of the world, set over the whole work that first and greatest Son, and used Him at the same time as a counselor and artificer, in planning, arranging, and accomplishing, since He is complete both in knowledge, and judgment, and power... [Lactantius, Divine Institutes 2.9. in Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds. The Ante-Nicene Fathers, 10 vols. (1885; reprint, Peabody: Hendrickson, 2004), 1:52–53.]
Many things he here taught are not considered “orthodox” by today’s standards. However, Lactantius was definitely orthodox during his lifetime. Amazingly, many things here correspond to LDS doctrine precisely in those areas that are “unorthodox.”
“As clearly explained with annotations here (beginning at the bottom of p. 179), and here (beginning in the section titled LITERAL SON OF GOD), Mormon theology teaches that God is a man and that Christ was conceived through a sexual act between Mary and God the Father. In other words, the birth of Christ is considered a natural, rather than a miraculous occurrence.”
Oh here we go again, somebody who thinks they know the theology of my church better than I do after living it and studying it for over 30 years.
The Pratt writings were disavowed by the church very soon after he published them, and Pratt was censured for it and realizing he was in error also disavowed his work. They don’t tell you that in those web pages because that ruins the story they want to sell you and leaving that out is very dishonest IMHO.
Our doctrine is that Mary, a virgin, conceived by a miracle brought about by the power of the Holy Ghost. Everything that happened after that took place as naturally as any other pregnancy. She literal carried a child, she literally delivered him as with any other birthing, and that child was literally the son of our Heavenly Father. Mary was a virgin throughout the pregnancy. Did the Holy Ghost play a role? Yes, so in that sense you can say the Holy Ghost bears some responsibility in her being pregnant, but not in terms of being the father of her child. The Bible often cites God the Father, not the Holy Ghost, and being Christ’s father.
All the other quotes fit perfectly with the doctrine I have described above and those same sources also assert that Christ was born of a virgin, but again they leave that out. The literalness of Christ’s sonship is a RESULT of the miracle that his conception was. Reverse engineering it to claim there was a sexual relationship is reading into their words things contrary to what they actually said.
“Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., said: “The birth of the Savior was a natural occurrence unattended with any degree of mysticism, “
I trust you understand the difference between BIRTH and CONCEPTION. His conception was a miracle, after than things proceeded naturally, morning sickness, stretch marks, cravings, contractions, moving down the birth canal, cutting the cord and entering the world just like you and I did. It was not a metaphor, it was not some event that didn’t really take place in the real world and that is what he is saying. As I said before, that same source also asserts the virgin birth, but the people writing the website leave that part out because it ruins their story. Stop falling for the lies.
“there are many important LDS doctrines which are not found in the Book of Mormon.”
So what? The BoM contains the fullness of the gospel, but the gospel is only a part of the plan of salvation. Nobody ever claimed the BoM to contain the fullness of LDS theology.
“Moreover, as explained with annotations HERE, there are many key doctrines found in Doctrine and Covenants and The Pearl of Great Price which clearly contradict Book of Mormon scripture.”
Because you do not have a full or accurate understanding of our theology you perceive a contradiction where there is none. For example, those verses in Alma that say God is a Spirit were said BEFORE the birth of Christ, and at that time in our theology, Christ was in fact a spirit. The verse saying that Christ has a physical body was given after Christ’s resurection, hence both are true in their historical context. Likewise the other supposed contradictions only display the ignorance of the writers.
“It has been my experience in talking with Mormons over the years that many LDS members are not aware of all their church’s teachings.”
What you are talking about isn’t our teachings in a lot of cases, they are cleverly designed lies crafted to fool people. Most members don’t bother wading through all the lies spread about us, they focus on studying what our theology REALLY is and I’ve not seen any other Christian church do more to educate it’s members on their beliefs than ours does.
“With this in mind, I encourage you to study and above websites and let me know if you find any of their statements in error.”
I’ve done so in a brief fashion. I hope your reaction will demonstrate your commitment to truth, intellectual honesty and fairness. If it does than I’ll be happy to discuss things further with you.
I suggest you look into the difference between BIRTH and CONCEPTION. Not one quote there talks about how Mary concieved, they only talk about the RESULT of her miraculous conception, and you can find those same leaders also asserting the miracle of the virgin birth in those very same works those quotes are pulled from.
“That Joe Smith is a “true prophet” is an LDS belief.”
And although we disagree over whether it is a true belief or not, the general principle I stated (If you reject a true prophet you also reject Christ) still holds.
Would you agree that if somebody rejects Noah or Abraham or Moses, or Peter as false prophets and think they accept Christ that they are fooling themselves?
Alma 7:10
And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God.
2 Nephi 17:14
Therefore, the Lord himself shall give you a sign—Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and shall bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
1 Nephi 11:20
And I looked and beheld the virgin again, bearing a child in her arms.
1 Nephi 11:18
And he said unto me: Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh.
Great idea. Let’s go straight to the bible, and again straight to the Lord.
Use the King James bible, like we do, unaltered, unchanged, (I don't know where you get your assertion).
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/nt/contents
While you are there, let’s (like you suggest) take the council to go straight to the Lord. In fact, this scripture was what let Joseph Smith to pray to God to seek answers for himself, from God himself, not all the different interpretations had by the many churches of the day.
Pay close attention to verse 7. If you waver in your faith that you will receive an answer, the Lord will not give you one. Plain and simple
James 1:5-7
5 if any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
Sorry to have offended you Delph...I have seen FReepers become upset at questions like that. IIRC, you had at one time invited me to offer advice to you. I won’t do it again.
FALSE.
Believe whatever you wish!
It was because of Mormons and your founder, a false prophet, that polygamy was banned by the United States Supreme Court. Polygamy is not Christian and at that time, Christians didn’t want the Mormon polygamy to continue. You may want to tell fellow Mormon that polygamy is against the law.
‘Pay close attention’: “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.” Gal 1:8
However there are a few 'break-off' Churches where Pologamy IS practiced...i.e. see the trial of Rulon Jeffs down in St. George.
Also (as a confirmed Christian for just about my entire life) the LDS ARE Christians.
They view Christ as the Head of their Church.
The ones that I know (and living in Utah means I know a lot of them) have always attempted to follow the example's of Christ in their daily lives...something that I wish many on FR would do...especially on these threads.
You may disagree with the Book of Mormon (I do) but they are Christians.
Remember what the Master of us all said...."Let him among you who is without sin cast the first stone."
They are good people with excellent family values.
Let it go.
redrock
Why not??????
redrock
They don’t believe in the Trinity.
They believe you can achieve “godhood like Christ” did.
They are a works driven faith that believe those who lead excemplatory lives will get a “planet” and “virgins”.
Not at all Christian.
Never mind about their other books that take priority over the Bible - ah, because the Bible was “corrupted”. So young hormone driven Smith comes along and dreams up polygamy as okay as well as other false teachings. His flawed teachings continue ... and what makes LDS or Mormonism unChristian.
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.I testify to you and all who will read this that by the very spirit that testified to me of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon was I also taught that Jesus is the Christ my Lord, may Savior that he did live that he did die on the cross at Calvary, and he did it for me, and I need that sacrifice, daily, and for that, I am ashamed and will always be ashamed to have added to his pain.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Why not??????
Well, you got me.
To my recollection the only appearances of Jesus that I am aware of seem to be surrounded by "kooky" circumstances. Oral Roberts seeing a 900 foot tall Jesus at ORU comes immediately to mind. I guess scripturally it is possible; it's not forbidden. I just don't want to be fooled by a demon posing as an "angel of light".
Too many are fooled these days because they don't know the truth of the Bible as written thousands of years ago, inspired by the Holy Spirit. They really don't like the fact that God is telling them to change the way they live so they start their own religion. It's the original sin, do it your way not God's. Jehovah's Witnesses don't like the concept of Hell so they write it out of scripture.
I get the feeling that if Jesus were to appear to me I would probably become as a dead man, like the Apostle John. Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, Almighty God, the great I AM so I don't think He is going to appear to me to tell me write scripture to correct the apostate version of the Holy Bible. But I guess He could, if He chose to.
Exo 33:20
But He said, "You cannot see my face, for no man can see Me and live!"
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.It takes faith, and works, not faith only, not works only.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Gotta Go, BBL8R
Of Him the Prophet also declared: “And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!“For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—
“That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God” (D&C 76:22–24).
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