Posted on 12/29/2007 7:41:14 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084
Drunken drivers, consider yourself warned: The cops will be out for blood.
Motorists on Fort Worth roads who refuse to take a breath test after being stopped for suspected drunken driving on New Year's Eve and New Year's Day will have their blood drawn to determine whether they are impaired.
"If you refuse to take that blood test, we are going to ask for a warrant from a magistrate and come back and take your blood," said Fort Worth Police Chief Ralph Mendoza. "Basically, we are going to get our evidence one way or the other."
For the first time, Fort Worth police are launching a DWI No Refusal campaign in an effort to keep drunken drivers off the roads during the holiday.
In a news conference Friday morning, Mendoza, along with officials from the Tarrant County district attorney's office, Dalworthington Gardens, and Mothers Against Drunk Driving warned motorists not to get behind the wheel if they have imbibed.
"If you are stopped by a Fort Worth police officer and you are arrested for DWI, we are going to get a sample," said prosecutor Richard Alpert, who specializes in the prosecution of DWI and intoxication manslaughter cases. "We are going to get the evidence we need in court to prove your guilt. There is no way around it."
Defense attorney Abe Factor who routinely defends those arrested for DWI, said he believes that the campaign is little more than a publicity ploy and that the results will be lackluster, partly because the process will take time and many will score below the legal limit of 0.08.
"To me, it's more sizzle than steak," he said. "It's a good for thing for them to have a press conference over, but the numbers are going to be fairly small. If they stop someone who is really intoxicated, they are going to have them videotaped all over the place anyway."
The idea for the no refusal holiday came from senior prosecutor Lloyd Whelchel of the Tarrant County district attorney's office.
Whelchel recently attended a training seminar and reminded officials that authorities in El Paso and Harris County had similar programs in place.
The campaign will run from 8 p.m. Monday to 5 a.m. Tuesday and from 8 p.m. Tuesday to 5 a.m. Wednesday. If a Fort Worth police officer pulls over a suspected drunken driver who refuses a breath test, the officer will seek a search warrant from a magistrate.
The suspect will then be taken to a room at the Fort Worth Police Department, where at least three officers with Dalworthington Gardens Public Safety Department will be on hand to take their blood.
It is that way in Germany. When GIs got stopped by German police for possible DUI, they take you to a local medical clinic and take the blood for the test. You cannot refuse. If you do, they hold you down and take it anyway. We once had a guy punch the doctor out when he tried to take the blood. The police smashed him to the floor and beat the stew out of him. Then told the doctor to take the blood now. The doctor refused. So, the policeman took the needle and started probing the arm till he found a vein and took the blood himself. The guy's arm looked like a junkie after the cop was finished. But, they got the blood and the guy was like .25 or something over the limit.
I wasn’t asking anyone to change anything. I posted a suggestion for FYI.
Sorry if I'm being dense here or missed the /sarc tag. Is this true? If so, the citizens of NJ need to rise up against that kind of treatment.
No kick-back per se.
However, they get new laws passed, claim success, and raise more $$.
It has gotten to the point that they are beginning to have observers in courtrooms and then pressuring judges, prosecutors and police officers merely by their presence and press releases.
Regarding your state and my scenario - it doesn’t render it moot at all. The officer can ticket you for drowsy driving - and move on to look for a real drunk driver.
Please focus on the exercise of your fifth amendment rights as probable cause to get around your fourth...
you are mixing issues...compelling you to blow into a machine is both a violation of your fifth amendment and fourth amendment rights. which occurs after the seizure of your person to take you to the station (4th amendment)
your trash scenario is a good example - at the curb it is abandoned property and you have no expectation of privacy; however, until you move the trash from alongside your house to the curb it is not abandoned, the expectation of privacy remains and LE must obtain a search warrant to look through it.
So, failing to provide evidence is now the same as providing evidence to support conviction? I'm so glad we got that whole 5th amendment thing out of the way!
This isn’t the 5th Amendment though in this case; it is the unreasonable search and seizure.
With the judge’s warrant, that is taken care of.
It still is shady.
I meant moot as in being able to prove innocence. I was looking at the breathalyzer and blood work as a vehicle to prove innocence. How do you prove you are or aren’t tired?
As for the observers in courtrooms, that is interesting. I didn’t know that. Look at this thread:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1562040/posts
NJSBA Animal Law
That is specific to Animal Laws; but I’m posting it to show how the ‘observers’ are trained. I would assume that seminars are held like this to train observers for the courtroom in regards to these laws (sleep, drunkenness) also.
The animal law one is funded from a UN Charter. If observers are trained in this manner, I guess these laws are also coming in from a UN Charter?
I’m curious as to how this works.
>>>>If so, the citizens of NJ need to rise up against that kind of treatment.
If you have suggestions, please offer them up. We have been fighting the socialist take over since 1994. Obviously we have not been doing it successfully.
Boys and girls, this is IT.
Hopefully.
My objection is a matter of principle. You are being forced against your will to provide a sample to prove your innocence.
That is wrong on a couple of levels.
Most jurisdictions get around the Constitutional issues by having you sign a consent to testing when you get your license, and failure to take the test is an administrative offense which will cost you your license for a year or more.
BTW in a demonstration related to a DUI case, I produced a reading of .45 on the older Smith and Wesson Breathylizer (that is correct, .45--legally dead for most) and hadn't had a drink.
The machine will read any alcohol, not just ethanol, (in this case, the alcohol base of a spray cologne).
Check and see what is in mouthwash...
No, I did not drink it, but like a client sprayed it in my mouth...nasty stuff, but 15 minutes afterward, I still read at .04 which was enough to have the LEOs drop charges against the accused.
The machine reads a (theoretically) deep alvaeolar air sample, that value is multiplied by a factor (iirc, by 1400) to get a BAC. That BAC may not be representative of your actual BAC, depending on your pulmonary function, whether you are anemic or dehydrated, and a host of other factors, especially the presence of alcohol in the mouth or throat. (Never, ever, burp when you take a breath test!)
>>>>Most jurisdictions get around the Constitutional issues by having you sign a consent to testing when you get your license, and failure to take the test is an administrative offense which will cost you your license for a year or more.
I didn’t know that. Thanks.
The school the sent me through was the best thing that ever happened to me. They taught me how to drink and I now follow those rules. Example: You can drink one 12 oz. beer an hour all day and not get drunk. Now I time my drinking, expecially during sporting events.
This class should be taught in every high school in America. But the teacher told me they won't let them because it would be introducing alcohol.
I could live with this compromise. But some states won't let adults make this decision for themselves.
ping
Hmm. I can see a lot of lawsuits resulting from this. Taking a blood sample from a struggling person can result in all sorts of problems.
Any medical professionals involved will be particularly vulnerable to lawsuit. Depending on the states medical licensing practices that may be an issue too.
Perhaphs they will have county EMTs do it? Many of them are wanna-be JBT’s and would probably be happy to oblige.
Good luck with that conviction rate there, Fort Worth. Something about Fourth Amendment and all that, dontcha know...
yes, you sign and agree to take a test when you get your license, but the penalties for not taking the test are “administrative” - suspension of license.
if the test is forced (required, compulsory, etc...), it is not admissible in a criminal case, same with FST’s
no, it is both a fifth and fourth issue
there are verbal and non-verbal admissions...the breath test is a non-verbal - refusing to take it cannot be the basis for pc in a warrant
BTW - it appears that NJ is in some sort of race with my home state of MD to see who will be the most socialist state the quickest.
Scary.
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