British Smokers Triumph As Anti Rages On

Forces.org ^ | January 4, 2008

[Drew68]

Looks like the Brits have more stones than us!

Many European countries have anti-smoking laws similar to ours. The difference between anti-smoking laws in Europe and those in America is that in Europe they are widely ignored.

I was recently in the airport in Frankfurt and saw "No Smoking" signs every 10 meters. Travelers didn't care. They lit up wherever they pleased. I saw people smoking directly under the "No Smoking" signs! Nobody bothered them or said anything.

Could you imagine the pandemonium if someone lit up a cigarette in an American airport?

[Balding_Eagle]

How about addressing the issues raised by Lurker in post #68?

[microgood]

Could you imagine the pandemonium if someone lit up a cigarette in an American airport?

No doubt. In America, the is a Nicotine Nazi behind every blade of grass.

[boop]

"Many of these lurkers may be fence sitters or open-minded, so there's no need to alienate them by slinging mud like our opponents."

I think there is a huge difference between someone who may have a "policy disagreement" over some political issue, and when one side decides arbitrarily to take away freedoms. And there is absolutely no recourse because "majority rules" over smoking. And the "majority" can fine you or put you in jail if you don't obey. If the majority ruled that for example, nobody can have alcoholic beverages in a bar, you'd hear nothing but howling or even see violence from some of the same people decrying a lack of civility.

[IIntense]

Dear St. Sursum Corda:

Please explain what an "avouded conservative" is. I never thought of myself as one of those.

An excerpt from your self-description includes:

Deliver me, Jesus, from the fear of suffering rebukes. Yet your deep humility requires others to suffer your rebuke because you are the righteous one.

I invite you disclose any areas in your life which are lacking in perfection. If you can't accuse yourself of any, then you are guilty of the capital sin of pride.

With all the evil we witness in this world, I'd suggest you focus on some of those problems rather than exaggerate the "sins" of those who get some satifaction from smoking.

Peace be with you.

[IIntense]

You might want to consider hourly----it isn't working. LOL. Sursum prays for humility and believes, at the same time, that he/she has the authority to damn smokers. Or is smoking itself the target?

Fair is fair. I want to know Sursum's faults/weaknesses. True confession time for the judge.

[IIntense]

You said the truth, timm22. That is the issue in a nutshell. If we allow the government(s) to slowly but assuredly chip away at citizens' rights, the United States will no longer be the land of the free.

Thanks for laying it on the line.

[IIntense]

You don't have a right to woodwork...

Beautiful!

[IIntense]

I liked the story of someone who carried a fake cigarette into a “no smoking” area. An employee immediately pounced on him with, “You cannot smoke here!”. Imagine her chagrin when told it wasn’t a cigarette! I doubt she was so quick to jump on someone else after that experience. LOL

[Budge]

The failure of the more level headed smokers on this thread to reign in the crazies will continue to hurt your cause. Be prepared to reap the whirlwind.

The whirlwind of which you speak will be reaped by you, and by all. As more people are forced to quit smoking, the government loses that much in taxes. The nanny state government will not tolerate this loss and will therefore raise taxes and fees on whatever your habit is.

Will you the complain that the taxes are unfair?

[Budge]

This is primarily a "hearts and minds" battle we are facing, and as everyone knows, public opinion is usually not very favorable to our side.

No! It is not a "hearts and minds" battle. It is a battle of property rights!

As many have said before on this very thread, the government should not have the right to tell the business owner that they will not permit that owner to allow a legal substance on his property!

[elkfersupper]

God bless each and every one of you on your life journey to Him. I pray that we all make it. Lord, hear my prayer.

God created tobacco and meant for each of us who cares to do so enjoy it for all of our days. Amen.

[timm22]

No! It is not a "hearts and minds" battle. It is a battle of property rights!

I fully recognize how smoking bans violate property rights and just about every time this topic comes up I emphasize the property rights angle to any poster who supports a ban.

I think you may have misunderstood what I meant by the "hearts and minds" comment. My point wasn't about what arguments we should make, but how we should make those arguments and how we should conduct ourselves when advocating our position.

The simple truth is that those of us fighting for freedom face an uphill battle. Many of our opponents have been conditioned to view smokers as evil, selfish, and dirty. Similarly, our education and legal systems have grossly distorted the understanding of "property rights" for the average person.

That's why it's critical for pro-freedom types to stay calm and rational in our advocacy. If we allow the debate to become a contest of personalities, we allow this flawed thinking to go unchallenged.

[Eric Blair 2084]

I have little patience with the Smokers’ Lobby. I am a former smoker, quit now over 20 years. My children asked me to do so. It should not have come to that. I should have done it without their prodding. Was it “hard”? Yes. Do I believe that it was beneficial? Yes, in many ways. Food tastes better, my clothing, vehicles and home do not reek of tobacco smoke and I have not aged prematurely, as have some of my relatives who still light up. My general health is good and I am not wasting money on tobacco products. I have the time, money and stamina to pursue my hobby of woodworking and have increased my skills in the building trades as I remodel my house, one room at a time.

Thank you for sharing that with us after you sobered up in the morning. It was much better than the drunken filth you spewed at 1 am while playing my vice is better than your vice.