Posted on 01/08/2008 10:18:03 AM PST by GATOR NAVY
In Saturday’s debate, John McCain called anyone accusing him of supporting amnesty a “liar.” Actually, he wasn’t bold enough to make the accusation directly, instead cravenly quoting his most notable supporter: “Joe Lieberman said, John McCain has never supported amnesty, and anybody says that he does is a liar, is lying.”
Since McCain has accused me (among others) of lying, let’s see where the real deception is.
The perennial controversy over what to call McCain’s amnesty is silly. Every program in the world that has allowed illegal immigrants to stay has been called an “amnesty.” McCain himself called it “amnesty” as recently as May 2003, when he told the Tucson Citizen “I think we can set up a program where amnesty is extended to a certain number of people who are eligible … Amnesty has to be an important part ...” But once the focus-group results were in, “amnesty” became a four-letter word.
Fine, spinning the language is what politicians do. But what’s important is that McCain hasn’t just vigorously promoted euphemisms for amnesty — he’s engaged in a years-long, Clintonian campaign of amnesty denial, part of what Mickey Kaus calls “a tactic of gruff, testy dissembling.”
But an even more volatile immigration question has arisen in the New Hampshire campaign — Social Security for illegal aliens. This is one of those nightmare scenarios for politicians, combining two third rails into one. And McCain is again trying to employ deception as a way out of it.
Romney has accused McCain of supporting Social Security for illegals, and McCain has responded with more gruff testiness:
I do not support nor would I ever support any services provided to someone who came to this country illegally, nor would I ever and have never supported Social Security benefits for people who are in this country illegally, that is absolutely false.”
There are two issues regarding Social Security for illegal aliens: 1) Can illegal aliens get Social Security benefits, and 2) can illegal aliens accrue credits toward future Social Security benefits from illegal work. (For more on this, go here and scroll down to "SSA Law Inconsistent on Illegals"; also, this pdf of a Social Security Administration IG report on “Benefits Related to Unauthorized Work.”) McCain’s comment above addresses the first issue, and is a weasely, hair-splitting, depends-what-the-meaning-of-is-is lie, because his bill last year would have made illegals eligible for Social Security as soon as they received the probationary Z visa (no more than 24 hours after submitting an application) — Sec. 606 of S1639 required every amnesty applicant to be issued a Social Security number in a “prompt” fashion, and a legitimate Social Security number (not citizenship) is all you need to be eligible for benefits.
But when you examine the issue of accruing credit toward Social Security benefits, it’s clear that the first part of McCain’s response above is also a lie. Look specifically at his 2006 bill — on May 18, Senator Ensign introduced an amendment to bar work done while illegal from counting toward eligibility for future Social Security benefits for the amnestied illegals (see the amendment and vote tally here). The amendment was not some minor procedural measure that could be misinterpreted, or an omnibus measure with hidden provisions; it was a clear-cut, up-or-down question, — should illegal immigrants committing identity fraud receive Social Security benefits based on that fraud?
Contrary to what you might conclude from all his huffing and puffing on the campaign trail, McCain’s answer at the time was “yes.”
“The whole thrust of the legislation is to grant them Social Security benefits,” a Las Vegas paper reports him having said at the time. He called the amendment “fundamentally unfair” and told his Senate colleagues that “If this amendment is enacted, the nest egg that these immigrants have worked hard for would be taken from them and their families.” His view mattered, not only because it was his (and Ted Kennedy’s) bill, but because the amendment failed by a single vote, 50-49.
The original version of McCain’s 2007 bill would also have allowed illegal aliens use past work to qualify for Social Security, but an amendment passed by voice vote (i.e., without a roll call) changed that (see here and scroll down most of the way down to “Hutchison SA 1415”). However, as Sen. Sessions pointed out in a listing of the bill’s loopholes (see Loophole 19), visa-overstaying illegals who’d been issued a genuine Social Security number when they arrived legally (as workers or students) would have been able to use the credits from work after they fell out of status (i.e., became illegal aliens) toward collecting future benefits. And even Z-visa holders (illegal aliens with pending amnesty applications) who were later rejected for amnesty (if any would have been) would have accrued credits toward future Social Security, using their newfound, “promptly” issued Social Security numbers.
As with the terminological issue, the most disturbing aspect of the Social-Security-for-illegal-aliens discussion is not so much the content of McCain’s policy prescriptions (which we should be happy to debate), but his brazen dishonesty, making “Straight Talk” not just a joke but an Orwellian portent. Real Straight Talk would be to say “Sure, it’s an amnesty, but we don’t really have any choice” or “Of course, I support Social Security for today’s illegal immigrants as part of my amnesty plan.” But to get the nomination, McCain has thrown Straight Talk off the bus.
I am getting the feeling we have a very stupid electorate.
No wonder our country is going to slide down the tubes.
Maybe they don’t even know or understand.
2008, the most annoying election.
Straight Talk Express.
What a joke.
Who are the “elites . . . trying to run Rudy Giuliani on us?” As best I can tell, Rudy (who is not my preferred candidate) chose to run on his own, just as he did in NYC. I lived there during the Dinkins era. What Giuliani accomplished was amazing. No genuine conservative could have done what he did because no genuine conservative ever would have been elected. Also, we were all in love with Rudy when we thought he could stop Hillary from being elected to the senate.
He is far from perfect, but he is far, far better than any option with a (D) beside their name.
McCain has shown that he is quite willing to do great damage to our Republic. McCain is an unstable power hungry petty man. He has absolutely no appreciation for Liberty or respect for our beloved Constitution. McCain my running for office rightfully opens himself up for critical examination. The list of McCains assault on the Constitution is out there for everyone to see.
I would with a clear conscience sit out the election than cast a vote for such a vile and despicable human. Luckily for our Republic, this cretin will NOT get the nomination. He is the perfect example of scum rising to the top.
“Don’t lie John. They have you on tape saying that you support amnesty.”
How can a man who co-sponsors a bill with Ted kennedy be taken seriously at all.
Ted Kennedy holds original responsibiliy for the illegal alien problem we have today... see the immigration act of 1965.
Oh, I know.
Remember awhile back Fat Ted singing that little song, in the worst Spanish, or Massish, ever, at some pro illegal event?
Horrible.
>>concentrate of exorcising the real devil (Obama).<<
Now is not the time to oppose Obama. He can be useful in derailing Mrs. Clinton. He is also peaking too soon. Come the general election, his inexperience and socialist ways can be illustrated.
That’s an ingenius plan, sitting out the election. Please let our friends in the military know, especially the ones who are currently training to go to Iraq, how you plan to help elect Commander in Chief Obama.
No he did not. We don’t want this worthless RINO.
I think you hit the nail on the head. While they are starting to trickle into NH, it’s just not the issue there that it is in other areas.
Nail hits hammer. Dead center.
John "amnesty aint amnesty" McCain is doing what Huckabee has been doing about his record - lying about it to get away from people finding the truth.
McCain is wrong, very wrong, on immigration. And he's not learned his lesson. ... Hope the lesson is given to him today.
Donna-I don’t care if he wears a wig, dress and high heels, the SOB will take the fight to the terrorists. Obama will give them the keys to the country. So if the election comes down to those two, it is not a difficult choice in my book.
Now is not the time to oppose Obama. He can be useful in derailing Mrs. Clinton. He is also peaking too soon. Come the general election, his inexperience and socialist ways can be illustrated.
Now is the time to vette the GOP candidate.
“Remember awhile back Fat Ted singing that little song, in the worst Spanish, or Massish, ever, at some pro illegal event?”
You mean this?
http://www.breitbart.tv/html/2085.html
we vote for Romney, who at least is not insulting us with supporting the worst bill in 20 years like John McCain is.
And this Romney is a flip-flopper is way overused - they ALL spin, and in the case of McCain and Huckabee, outright lie about their positions ... and they all change positions.
Here’s McCain’s flipflops ... a sample ...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1950208/posts?page=215#215
McCain flipped on the Bush tax cuts.
Most conservatives believe the biggest domestic success of George Bush’s first term were his tax cuts. John McCain voted against them, more than once, before finally flip-flopping and voting for them this year.
McCain flipped on gay marriage.
Voted NO on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. (Jun 2006)
Voted YES on prohibiting same-sex marriage. (Sep 1996)
McCain flipped on ethanol.
McCain was anti-ethanol when he was skipping Iowa in 1999. In 2006 he was pro-ethanol while campaigning in Iowa . Now he’s pretty anti-ethanol again that he’s decided to bypass Iowa. (THIS ONE IS A TRUE FLIP FLOP . . . Been on both sides of the issue multiple times)
McCain flipped on Roe.
In NH in 1999 McCain told reporters that “in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade.” He explained that overturning Roe would force “women in America to [undergo] illegal and dangerous operations.” In 2006, campaigning for the GOP nomination as a conservative, McCain said the opposite.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me ask one question about abortion. Then I want to turn to Iraq. You’re for a constitutional amendment banning abortion, with some exceptions for life and rape and incest.
MCCAIN: Rape, incest and the life of the mother. Yes.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So is President Bush, yet that hasn’t advanced in the six years he’s been in office. What are you going to do to advance a constitutional amendment that President Bush hasn’t done?
MCCAIN: I don’t think a constitutional amendment is probably going to take place, but I do believe that it’s very likely or possible that the Supreme Court should — could overturn Roe v. Wade....”
McCain flipped on climate change:
Kyoto By Any Other Name Would Still Smell As Rotten: John McCain proposed a radical bill, the McCain-Lieberman Stewardship Act, that is not all that different from the Kyoto Protocol. McCain’s bill would do cataclysmic damage to our economy. In the name of cutting greenhouse gas emissions by an insignificant percentage, that not even the biggest proponents of Kyoto believe would have a significant impact on the weather, here’s the damage John McCain would be willing to do to our economy (from an article by Marlo Lewis in National Review).
McCain flipped on stem cells.
Initially supporting the President’s restriction as to federal funding, McCain then asked for an expansion to include wider research saying, “I believe that we need to fund this. This is a tough issue for those of us in the pro-life community. I would remind you that these stem cells are either going to be discarded or perpetually frozen. We need to do what we can to relieve human suffering. It’s a tough issue. I support federal funding.” Source: 2007 GOP primary debate, at Reagan library, hosted by MSNBC May 3, 2007
McCain signed a letter from 58 Senators to the President
“ Dear Mr. President:
We write to urge you to expand the current federal policy concerning embryonic stem cell research.
>>Now is the time to vette the GOP candidate.<<
And the GOP candidate must be one whose conservative principles can be contrasted to Ubama’s.
McAmnesty has a plan to catch bin Laden:
Let him enter thru McAmnesty Open Border plan...and give him a Z Visa. No waterboarding...except for Osama taking a dip in the Rio Grande
I'm not by any means a single-issue voter and have serious reservations about each of them on several major issues.
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