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‘Renaissance Couldn’t Have Happened Without Muslim Input’
Arab News ^ | 15 January 2008 | Hassna’a Mokhtar

Posted on 01/15/2008 5:15:30 AM PST by forkinsocket

JEDDAH, 15 January 2008 — The history of science and civilization, as taught by many institutions in the West, often fails to include more than 1,000 years of Islamic heritage and civilization, according to Dr. Salim Al-Hassani of the UK-based Foundation for Science, Technology and Civilization.

“The Renaissance couldn’t have happened out of nothing,” said Al-Hassani while speaking at Dar Al-Hekma College here yesterday. “In the West, there’s total ignorance of the contributions of other civilizations. Did modern civilization really rise from nothing?”

Al-Hassani explained how many Western discoveries are of Muslim origin. There was a lost age of Muslim innovation and invention that Muslims are not communicating to the West, he said. It is not included in the their history syllabus or textbooks either.

During Umar ibn Al-Khattab’s reign in 634 A.H., Muslim women took the lead in different ways. He appointed Samra bint Nuhayk Al-Asadiyya as a market inspector in Makkah and Ash-Shifa bint Abdullah as an administrator of the market in Madinah. “Later, Ash-Shifa was appointed as the head of health and safety in Basra,” said Al-Hassani.

Al-Qarawiyyin, a spiritual and educational center that led the Muslim world for over 1,200 years, was founded and built in 859 C.E. by a young princess, Fatima Al-Fihri, who migrated with her father Mohammed Al-Fihri from Qairawan (Tunisia) to Fez in Morocco.

“Fatima vowed to spend her entire inheritance on building a mosque suitable for her community. This remarkable story is a typical example shedding some light on the role and contribution of women to Muslim civilization. Such a role is the subject of widely held misconceptions about Islam,” said Al-Hassani.

In 1993, Prince Charles said in a public speech at the Oxford Center of Islamic Studies that if there was much misunderstanding in the West about the nature of Islam, there was also much ignorance about the impact of Western culture and civilization on the Islamic world.

“It is a failure which stems, I think, from the straitjacket of history which we have inherited. The medieval Islamic world, from Central Asia to the shores of the Atlantic, was a world where scholars and men of learning flourished,” said Charles. “But because we have tended to see Islam as the enemy of the West, as an alien culture, society and system of belief, we have tended to ignore or erase its great relevance to our own history.”

Al-Hassani founded www.muslim heritage.com attracting 60,000 visitors daily in order to change misperceptions about the role of Muslim inventions in today’s schools, universities, homes, hospitals, market, cities and the world. He was one of the key speakers at the first Arab Knowledge Economy conference that was held in Jeddah on Jan. 12-13.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: civilization; clashofcivilizations; freepun; godsgravesglyphs; islam; islamisfascism; islamisterrorism; korananimals; renaissance; ropalert; west
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1 posted on 01/15/2008 5:15:30 AM PST by forkinsocket
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To: forkinsocket
Thank also the Byzantines and the Irish ( remember the book “How The Irish Saved The West ). There was a great deal of colaberation.
2 posted on 01/15/2008 5:18:21 AM PST by Biggirl (A biggirl with a big heart for God's animal creation, with 4 cats in my life as proof. =^..^=)
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To: forkinsocket

The problems with this article should be glaring. The most ingenious of the innovations that came from Arabs, came before Mohammad.


3 posted on 01/15/2008 5:19:09 AM PST by wolfpat (If you don't like the Patriot Act, you're really gonna hate Sharia Law.)
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To: forkinsocket
“The Renaissance couldn’t have happened out of nothing,”

Precisely who ever said that it did? This article is a piece of nothing.

4 posted on 01/15/2008 5:19:35 AM PST by Pietro
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To: forkinsocket

“It is a failure which stems, I think, from the straitjacket of history which we have inherited. The medieval Islamic world, from Central Asia to the shores of the Atlantic, was a world where scholars and men of learning flourished,” said Charles. “But because we have tended to see Islam as the enemy of the West, as an alien culture, society and system of belief, we have tended to ignore or erase its great relevance to our own history.”

Don’t worry Prince, at the rate things are going you’ll soon get to celebrate its relevance to your future. Which sounds as if it would suit you just fine.


5 posted on 01/15/2008 5:20:57 AM PST by bereanway (Hunter in '08)
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To: forkinsocket

neither could have 911


6 posted on 01/15/2008 5:21:25 AM PST by jjw
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To: forkinsocket
‘Renaissance Couldn’t Have Happened Without Muslim Input’

Quite true. Were it not for Mohammedan violence and cruelty in the destruction of the Byzantine empire, Byzantine scholars would not have fled for western Europe.

7 posted on 01/15/2008 5:21:44 AM PST by DeaconBenjamin
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To: forkinsocket

‘Renaissance Couldn’t Have Happened Without Muslim Input’

These towel hats, currently living in the 6th century, have the nerve to imply they are the seeds of western knowlege.

What arrogant @$$wipes.


8 posted on 01/15/2008 5:22:00 AM PST by Vaquero (" an armed society is a polite society" Heinlein "MOLON LABE!" Leonidas of Sparta)
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To: forkinsocket
Fatima vowed to spend her entire inheritance on building a mosque suitable for her community. This remarkable story is a typical example shedding some light on the role and contribution of women to Muslim civilization. Such a role is the subject of widely held misconceptions about Islam,” said Al-Hassani.

So she bankrupted herself by building a monument and traning ground to the Faith that made her a second class citizen and ultimately a pauper

9 posted on 01/15/2008 5:23:24 AM PST by Kakaze (Exterminate Islamofacism and apologize for nothing.....except not doing it sooner!)
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To: forkinsocket

It is absolutely true that Islamic science contributed to western society on some level. It is also true that the last contribution was over six hundred years ago, and the current technological/scientific representation of Islam is a pig turd on a hot sidewalk.


10 posted on 01/15/2008 5:23:25 AM PST by domenad (In all things, in all ways, at all times, let honor guide me.)
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To: forkinsocket

The Muslim contribution to the Renaissance is kind of like how good you feel when a headache finally stops. The Muslims were the headache.

When I am fighting with a rabid dog with my right hand, I don’t create any great works of art with my left. When the dog goes away, though, I have time for the better things in life.


11 posted on 01/15/2008 5:23:33 AM PST by gridlock (300 Million Americans will not be elected President in 2008. Hillary Clinton will be one of them.)
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To: Biggirl
Thank also the Byzantines and the Irish

People tend to forget that after the Western Roman Empire started coming apart, the Eastern Roman Empire (the Byzantine empire centered in Constantinople) was still going strong, until it fell to Muslim invasion

It was Muslim raiders, pirates and bandits who helped KEEP Europe in the Middle Ages. Muslim pirates stopped trade in the Mediterranean, cut off contact to India and China, and generally made a feudal existence necessary to survival.

And, no, the Arabs did not invent "Arabic numerals" or algebra. That was stolen from Indian mathematicians by Arab conquerers

12 posted on 01/15/2008 5:26:57 AM PST by PapaBear3625
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To: forkinsocket
this is actually true - but no thanks to Islam itself.

what the Crusaders saw in the Middle East, and the scientific books they discovered there layed the groundwork, and the final impulse came from the foreign trade carried out by the Italian city states. if it had been up to the Muslims, there would have been no Renaissance, only Dhimmi...

unfortunately for Islam, it has progressed basically *zip* since the Middle Ages...

13 posted on 01/15/2008 5:27:35 AM PST by chilepepper (The map is not the territory -- Alfred Korzybski)
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To: forkinsocket

Put on your hipboots folks,its more BS from mad mo’s liers


14 posted on 01/15/2008 5:28:50 AM PST by Charlespg (Peace= When we trod the ruins of Mecca and Medina under our infidel boots.)
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To: forkinsocket
"859 C.E."

What is "C.E."?

15 posted on 01/15/2008 5:30:29 AM PST by SW6906 (6 things you can't have too much of: sex, money, firewood, horsepower, guns and ammunition.)
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To: forkinsocket

So, you know something. Every time my students complain in my Algebra class and whine about the subject, I’ll tell them to blame the Muslims.


16 posted on 01/15/2008 5:32:37 AM PST by Tanniker Smith (Geek Squad -- if you're desperate and don't need a PC for a month, we're here for you.)
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To: Biggirl

To engage muslims in argument over anything is spitting in the wind.


17 posted on 01/15/2008 5:33:06 AM PST by x_plus_one (The entire Islamic moral universe devolves solely from the life and teachings of Muhammad.)
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To: SW6906
What is "C.E."?

"Christian Era".
Actually, it's some bass-ackward convolution meant to remove Christ from the calendar. Christians are taking it back.

Frankly, I don't put much stock into anything that uses the phrases "BCE" and "CE".

18 posted on 01/15/2008 5:34:04 AM PST by Tanniker Smith (Geek Squad -- if you're desperate and don't need a PC for a month, we're here for you.)
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To: forkinsocket; All

Lots of good comments! Imho, you’re all right.


19 posted on 01/15/2008 5:36:01 AM PST by khnyny (Clinton and Co. are the carnies of American politics.)
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To: Tanniker Smith
I'm still confused. Is there a conversion factor to apply to put it into BC/AD terms that the world has been using for hundreds and hundreds of years? Does BCE=BC and CE=AD?

"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

20 posted on 01/15/2008 5:39:45 AM PST by SW6906 (6 things you can't have too much of: sex, money, firewood, horsepower, guns and ammunition.)
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To: SW6906
"Does BCE=BC and CE=AD?"

Yes

21 posted on 01/15/2008 5:43:17 AM PST by JWinNC (www.anailinhisplace.net)
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To: wolfpat

Thank you. I am sick to death of the revisionist history being pumped out—”Muslim civilization saved the world”— or however it is worded.

Spare me. I look for the fruits, not just the words, and what I see is a roiling mass of chaos, hatred, jealousies, misogyny, and sand.


22 posted on 01/15/2008 5:44:05 AM PST by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: forkinsocket

Arab societies gave us the Astrolabe, but that was about it, and had nothing to do with Islam. Pre-Islamic Arab developments were much more robust. Islam had a definite retrograde effect on science and medicine in conquered lands.


23 posted on 01/15/2008 5:44:40 AM PST by montag813
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To: forkinsocket

History through islamic colored glasses.


24 posted on 01/15/2008 5:45:41 AM PST by JWinNC (www.anailinhisplace.net)
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To: forkinsocket
There was a lost age of Muslim innovation and invention that Muslims are not communicating to the West, he said. It is not included in the their history syllabus or textbooks either.

In other words - they forgot their own Kwanzaa of thought?

NOTE: Kwanzaa was selected as the comparison because it was a newly-minted "tradition" with no historical basis.

If the muslims want to invent a new "history" of invention and innovation, let them show the true evidence of it, not simply insinuate themselves into others' achievements.

25 posted on 01/15/2008 5:47:25 AM PST by MortMan (Have a pheasant plucking day!)
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To: SW6906

CE = Common Era = AD = Anno Domini (The Year of our Lord)
BCE = Before the Common Era = BC = Before Christ


26 posted on 01/15/2008 5:48:52 AM PST by biggerten (Love you, Mom.)
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To: chilepepper

The Arabs invented the Zero and stayed inside it.


27 posted on 01/15/2008 5:49:30 AM PST by biggerten (Love you, Mom.)
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To: SW6906

Google ‘bce ce ad’


28 posted on 01/15/2008 5:49:47 AM PST by Baron 2A
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To: Biggirl

While the word “Renaissance” is usually refered to that period which great works of art, literature, music, etc., flourished, it should be remembered that a lower definition of the word means - “a renewal of life, vigor, interest, etc.; rebirth; revival: a moral renaissance.” So, there is some truth to the statement because you cannot have a renaissance if you were at the top. Being hamstrung by Islam for centuries is the main reason the Renaissance occurred.


29 posted on 01/15/2008 5:50:13 AM PST by 7thson (I've got a seat at the big conference table! I'm gonna paint my logo on it!)
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To: montag813

Try doing algebra some time, and math without arabic numerals.


30 posted on 01/15/2008 5:50:56 AM PST by biggerten (Love you, Mom.)
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To: forkinsocket

He appointed Samra bint Nuhayk Al-Asadiyya as a market inspector in Makkah and Ash-Shifa bint Abdullah as an administrator of the market in Madinah. “Later, Ash-Shifa was appointed as the head of health and safety in Basra,”

I wonder who he appointed to head the EPA and the DOT?


31 posted on 01/15/2008 5:51:44 AM PST by Hacklehead (Crush the liberals, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the hippies.)
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To: forkinsocket

Just another story about muslims trying to re-write history.


32 posted on 01/15/2008 5:55:45 AM PST by Anonymous Rex ( For Rent)
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To: forkinsocket
There is NOTHING in this article to support its title. The author seems to think appointing female bureaucrats is a step forward for civilization, yet today his culture & religion vilifies women more than any other. The appointments were an aberration.
33 posted on 01/15/2008 5:56:43 AM PST by Mister Da (The mark of a wise man is not what he knows, but what he knows he doesn't know!)
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To: SW6906

They’re meant as exact replacements, even though the calendar itself is still centered on the birth of Christ (give or take 5-7 years).


34 posted on 01/15/2008 5:57:15 AM PST by Tanniker Smith (Geek Squad -- if you're desperate and don't need a PC for a month, we're here for you.)
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To: SW6906

It’s actually “COMMON Era” and “Before COMMON Era”-they really try to take Christ out of time.
I bookmarked a thread on the 4th which refutes all of the Islamic claims of influence on the Renaissance-the bottom line is that any accomplishment they claim as their own is from their violent takeover of the civilization that actually invented/discovered the accomplishment.
see
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1948199/posts
Katie


35 posted on 01/15/2008 5:57:36 AM PST by Katydidnt (Semper Fidelis from a Proud Marine Mom)
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To: Mister Da

Yes, it’s a surprisingly weak article that offers no evidence to support the claim made in the headline.


36 posted on 01/15/2008 5:59:36 AM PST by forkinsocket
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To: montag813

Persia, for instance, under Zoroastronism was when the majority of any of the cultural advances were made.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1953055/posts


37 posted on 01/15/2008 6:05:32 AM PST by khnyny (Clinton and Co. are the carnies of American politics.)
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To: forkinsocket
Islam didn't really have anything to do with the Renaissance.

Basically the economies of North Central Italy (Venice, Florence, Bologna) and the Low Countries (Amsterdam, Antwerp) recovered from the long economic decline that followed the Carolingian Empire's dissolution - and this economic recovery came about largely because the population grew to a critical mass that repopulated the cities.

The economic recovery spurred aggressive regional trade, and the rise of the mendicant orders (Franciscans and Dominicans) in the rejuvenated city centers renewed theological debate and disputation - which led to a flowering of scholarly research of all kinds.

Theologians like William of Moerbeke (A Dutchman living in Italy) began to seek out Greek texts of the ancient philosophers and acquired them from Jewish merchants and the Byzantine colony at Ravenna.

The Vatican still owns a copy of Archimedes translated from the Greek in William's own handwriting from 1269.

If one argues that the Renaissance began in Italy in the 13th/14th century, what were the major cultural developments?<1>(1) Art. Giotto introduced perspective in painting in the 1290s. His paintings, of course, were figural. Figural painting was banned in Islam and this development owes nothing to Islam.

Donatello arguably resuscitated the art of naturalistic sculpture. Again, in Islam, sculpting images of people was forbidden. This development owes nothing to Islam.

(2) Literature. The Renaissance is characterized by two literary movements.

The first was the return by intellectuals to the high style of Golden Age Latin with Cicero as a stylistic model. Cicero was more or less unknown among Muslims, and Islam had nothing to do with the reintroduction of Latin style.

The second literary movement is the development of vernacular literature - the most important theoretician and practitioner of vernacular literature as a legitimate cultural expression was Dante and his masterwork The Divine Comedy is the cornerstone of European vernacular literature. Nothing in Dante's work bears any debt to Islam. Islam had nothing to do with the rise of vernacular literature - it should be remembered that in Islam, all literary production was supposed to be in the "classical" Arabic of the Koran, not local dialects or vernacular languages.

The only substantial vernacular literature in Islam was Persian poetry, which was unknown in Europe at the time of teh Renaissance.

(3) Philosophy. There were two major developments in philosophy: the rise of Neo-Platonism and the resurgence of Aristotelianism.

The rise of Neo-Platonism was sparked by William of Moerbeke's translation of Proclus from the original Greek, not by any Muslim source.

Aristotle was an obscure thinker to most Europeans in the 1200s because the exiting Arabic translations of his work were spotty and inadequate - even misleading. He was considered a minor figure for this reason. It was not until more readable translations from the Greek were made by friars like Moerbeke in the 1260s that the full range of Aristotle's thought became better appreciated. Here is the one slight Muslim influence: Thomas Aquinas - the greatest European expositor and commentator on Aristotle used the commentaries of the Muslim Averroes as one of his scholarly sources. It should be noted, however, that Averroes was considered by Muslim authorities to be an apostate and a heretic and his works were condemned and destroyed. Averroes' philosophical works exist today only in the Latin translations of them made by Christian priests.

(4) Music. The great musical development of the Renaissance was polyphony - the singing of multiple vocal lines in complex harmony and counterpoint. This was the foundation of all art music in the West and led directly to instrumental counterpoint and fugue forms that Bach and his contemporaries made into the baroque music that was the precursor of the golden age of European classical music.

Polyphony had nothing to do with Islam whatever - it was derived from the folk forms of part singing among the Franco-Germanic peoples of Europe. Strict Islam banned singing and music in general -and especially the kind of secular music like madrigals that were the heart of polyphony.

(5) The Sciences.

In mathematics, it is claimed that Fibonacci's groundbreaking introduction of non-Roman calculation was a Muslim contribution.

While Fibonacci learned the basics of the system in North Africa as a trader, the number system he learned was actually Hindu - as he himself acknowledges in his book as the modus indorum "The Indian method" of calculation.

Islam did not invent this system, but adopted it from India.

In physics and astronomy, the Renaissance reintroduced the work of the classic Greek thinkers like Aristotle mentioned above, as well as Archimedes and Ptolemy.

In medicine and biology, the sources were again Greek: Aristotle and Galen.

In sum, the only elements of the Renaissance that can be traced to Islam are that an apostate Muslim was a useful commentator on Aristotle (but he was so effective a commentator on Aristotle mostly because he rejected Islamic theology as philosophically false) and the Muslim use of Hindu mathematical notation.

In otehr words, no indigenous product of Muslim theology or Muslim culture had anything to do with the Renaissance.

38 posted on 01/15/2008 6:06:25 AM PST by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: forkinsocket
There was a lost age of Muslim innovation and invention that Muslims are not communicating to the West, he said. It is not included in the their history syllabus or textbooks either.

Innovations such as beheadings, the Jihad, petty intolerance, and blaming the JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSE? Advancements like that, Achmed?

Perhaps the original author can explain why in the last hundred years "Western" civilizations have cured most diseases that plagued THEIR countries, invented air conditioning, the internal combustion engine and Pasteurization, and have gone from clumsy experiments with gliders to walking on the surface of the Moon (the symbol of their religion, incidentally) while the scholarly Muslim world has invented only squatting on sand, pumping oil, and blaming others for their technological and societal shortcomings? (And blowing up their own children to punish the Infidel, of course.)

“Fatima vowed to spend her entire inheritance on building a mosque suitable for her community."

Really? She gave up the fortune given to her family in an effort to better entrench a belief system that could behead her for petty crimes and viewed she and all women as little more than property? What a good little woman! Her owners must have been so proud!

39 posted on 01/15/2008 6:09:34 AM PST by 50sDad (Liberals: Never Happy, Never Grateful, Never Right.)
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To: forkinsocket

But what have you done for us lately?

40 posted on 01/15/2008 6:10:42 AM PST by SlowBoat407 (Just how will wrecking the U.S. economy save the planet?)
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To: forkinsocket

btt


41 posted on 01/15/2008 6:10:58 AM PST by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: biggerten
Try doing algebra some time, and math without arabic numerals.

There is no such thing as "arabic numerals."

There are, however, Hindu numerals, adopted by Arabs and others.

And algebra is not Arabic, but a Persian systematization of Indian mathematics.

42 posted on 01/15/2008 6:11:42 AM PST by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: Biggirl

No doubt islam contirbuted alot back in the day.

But how can one brag when all of the progress is in the rear view mirror?

Bizarre.


43 posted on 01/15/2008 6:13:57 AM PST by Red in Blue PA (Truth : Liberals :: Kryptonite : Superman)
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To: forkinsocket

seems the LIMITED contribution of the arab world was from sleazy merchant who were selling “useless” Greek and Roman scrolls to infidels.

The arab words contribution was akin to “one man’s junk is another man’s treasure.”


44 posted on 01/15/2008 6:20:18 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: wideawake

I understand that there are political points to be made, but Fibocacci published the Liber Abaci based upon what he learned from Arabs. So in 1250 Europe is still using Roman numerals and by 1700, we’re doing calculus.

Also, though I am sure your specific citations are accurate, my understanding is that some of the Greek texts, especially in mathematics, were eventually translated into Latin and vernacular from Arabic translations. There was a contribution.


45 posted on 01/15/2008 6:26:20 AM PST by swain_forkbeard (Rationality may not be sufficient, but it is necessary.)
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To: Katydidnt

I have also heard documentaries that play accademic humor by referen to the “Before Christian Era” and “Christian Era.”

Drives the atheists wild.


46 posted on 01/15/2008 6:27:35 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: JWinNC
>>Does BCE=BC and CE=AD?

>Yes

Just think of BCE and CE as the metric system applied to years...

47 posted on 01/15/2008 6:42:54 AM PST by chilepepper (The map is not the territory -- Alfred Korzybski)
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To: forkinsocket
‘Renaissance Couldn’t Have Happened Without Muslim Input’

The title makes a good point. Without the need to protect themselves from the invading Muslim terrorists, the Westerners might have not advanced technology as fast as we did.

48 posted on 01/15/2008 6:44:58 AM PST by norwaypinesavage (Planting trees to offset carbon emissions is like drinking water to offset rising ocean levels)
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To: forkinsocket

I needed a good laugh.


49 posted on 01/15/2008 6:45:21 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (ENERGY CRISIS made in Washington D. C.)
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To: Tanniker Smith
So, you know something. Every time my students complain in my Algebra class and whine about the subject, I’ll tell them to blame the Muslims.

So you openly admit that you are a member of the terrorist group Al Gebra?

50 posted on 01/15/2008 6:50:49 AM PST by 17th Miss Regt
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