Posted on 01/19/2008 1:19:16 PM PST by WesternCulture
......Scandinavia has quietly been growing and amassing wealth .......
I’m sceptical of that comment. I thought they were collecting the wealth and spending it on social programs with no residual being ammassed.
“I thought they were collecting the wealth and spending it on social programs with no residual being ammassed.”
- Yes, this is pretty much the truth.
Initially, Scandinavians make a lot of money, but then the tax collector takes something like 80% of our income and then pass the money to social workers who hand the bills to drug addicts who use them to roll their own joints :D
A very impressive site indeed.
A lot of PC Liberals view people who oppose Islam as ignorant and prejudiced. In some cases this might be true, but most people who criticize Islam can back up their arguments with solid facts.
I’m not an expert myself, but every time I’ve had discussions with Muslims who claim to be experts of Islam, I’ve discovered how weak their religion actually is. Most of the times, these Muslims have ended up confused after just a few minutes of debate (although I don’t think I’ve made many Muslims realize the true nature of their irrational and violent cult). Often, it’s much more difficult to convince Communists or Fascists that they are mistaken.
Will they? No.
Iran will soon have nuclear weapons with the means to deliver them into the heart of the Continent. That will be a deterrent to any concerted action by "Europe" against Iran.
Hell's bells, "Europe" can't muster for concerted action today against a non-nuclear Iran, much less in the near future against a more dangerous, nuclear armed one.
"Europe", or parts thereof, may well eventually stand up to the Islamic threat but that time is a long time off. The desperation is simply not deep enough and the sense of defending oneself against a mortal enemy is simply too diffused - partly by a widespread hedonistic streak and partly by desire for peaceful accommodation at any cost. After all, who wants to leave the good life most Europeans enjoy today to revert to the blood and chaos of centuries past?
Individual countries of Europe may indeed eventually awake to the greater Islamic threat because of well-founded fear of their "native" Muslim populations. But Iran? That's a long way away and not likely to be considered a direct threat - even with nuclear weapons. A threat against Israel? Maybe. A threat against "us", unlikely. After all, "we" can be good trading partners.
European governmental elites prefer talk to action. There is no sign they want to do things any differently. And, after all, it is the elites who run things - not the people. In any case, most of the people seem pacifist minded nowadays, right?
I applaud those, like you, who recognize the threat and are bravely standing up and crying for action. But as far as I can see, you are still small, scattered voices living on an apathetic continent a long way from mobilizing against a deadly threat to your collective Western life and liberty.
After all, why give up nice vacations and wine for war and misery if you don't have to - especially when there is some good money to be made off those wacky Persians?
You can’t defeat Islam, you can only exterminate it.
Here’s a start. I doubt if the Gitmo detainees are of any further value. We probably won’t get any more info out of them. They should be humanely euthanized so that they stop costing us money with their maintenance.
- Perhaps, but the wisest option is to control Islam.
The Achilles heel of Islamofascism is that it thrives on ignorance and the preservation of (in many cases pre-Islamic) barbarian customs.
That is the main reason why little girls on their way to school in Afghanistan blow up instead of grow up.
I’d say there still is hope for the millions of people in the Muslim world who are yet untouched by true civilization.
We Westerners should not underestimate the possibilities that go hand in hand with our superiority.
We can let Islam survive, even though it will have to be remodeled.
We survived Black Death, the insanity of perpetual European bloodshed consisting in brothers killing brothers and two World wars.
Islam can be remodeled, defeated or exterminated.
Western Civilization can neither be defeated or exterminated and it will forever remain the model of true civilization.
Last time I checked, Europe, in the form of NATO was sitting on Irans flank
“European governmental elites prefer talk to action.”
- To a certain degree, this is true.
However, the time for talk is over and many Europeans are becoming aware of this fact.
In this field, just like in many other areas, our “elites” fail to lead. It’s only when ordinary Europeans like me start to react that something actually gets done. I’m not saying American politicians in general are much better than ours, but I can’t say I’m keen on defending the reputation of European politicians.
Speaking on behalf of Sweden, I admit a lot of our politicians are ignorant PC hypocrites, but at least they have realized Sweden will have to continue sending troops for a long time to parts of the world haunted by Islamofascism.
Anyhow, we Swedes do more than Saudi Arabia.
If Saudi Arabia truly is a civilized country, why don’t they send 2 million men to Afghanistan and declare that Taliban barbarianism is against Islam? Ordinary Muslims would listen if Saudi Arabia used that kind of “language”, even if some Muslims still would claim Saudi Arabia is ruled by traitors to Islam.
The reason we Europeans send troops at all is very much the same as the reason to American military presence in the Muslim world; most of us we are aware that freedom definitely isn’t free.
Many Europeans might disagree with the actions of Bush, but that doesn’t mean the average European did NOT feel like he or she was being attacked on 9/11 2001. In this sense, the Madrid and London bombings made no difference.
“But as far as I can see, you are still small, scattered voices living on an apathetic continent a long way from mobilizing against a deadly threat to your collective Western life and liberty.”
- I don’t wish to say that all other parts of the worlds are backward and unaware, but in Europe, major changes occur rapidly than everywhere else.
Let’s have a look at the last 100 years:
1908: Europe is prosperous and leads the world.
1918: Europe is in ruins. Marxism is on the rise.
1928: Europe is again flourishing.
1938: Fascism has entered the scene and Europe has begun to recuperate after a worldwide depression.
1948: Europe is, for the second time in a generation in ruins.
1958: Europeans deem their economic recovery after WWII a “miracle.”
1968: The European middle class baby boomers have converted to Marxism. Economic growth explodes.
1978: Economic stagnation. More and more people across the continent are discussing a controversial politician by the name Thatcher.
1988: The impossible is in the making; it is becoming more and more obvious that Soviet Communism is ready to give in. There is a scent of freedom in the air.
1998: More or less all of Europe is free, although something still isn’t right in the Balkans.
2008: Americans and Europeans are involved in discussions concerning how to deal with Islamofascism.
The world is in certain areas NOT a beautiful place.
We, the good guys, are here to fix it.
Correction:
- I don’t wish to say that all other parts of the world are backward and unaware, but in Europe, major changes occur MORE rapidly than everywhere else.
Sorry.
“2008: Americans and Europeans are involved in discussions concerning how to deal with Islamofascism.”
Freedom loving individuals, like you and us, WesternCulture. Thanks for your presence and starting this interesting thread.
I’ll pass on to you 2 of the most important links I have seen posted in the past 2 years...
http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/06winter/win-ess.htm
and the 2nd one here (thanking FReeper PurpleMan for this one here)...
http://www.strategycenter.net/docLib/20080107_Coughlin_ExtremistJihad.pdf
They are “MUST READS” to understand the depth, history and enormity of what we are waking up to.
Sincere thanks!
Best of regards.
For all of our sakes, I certainly hope so...
Anyhow, we Swedes do more than Saudi Arabia.
For sure.
If Saudi Arabia truly is a civilized country, why don’t they send 2 million men to Afghanistan and declare that Taliban barbarianism is against Islam?
Because the same Wahabbist stripe of Islam is born and bred in Saudi Arabia and being promoted by them throughout the world?
As "keeper" of the Holy Sites of Islam and as author of that dreadful religion, Saudi Arabia is not about to forsake itself in favor of any infidel idea or influence except that of using the infidel in pursuit of their own wealth and power - and the supremacy of Islam...
... most of us we are aware that freedom definitely isn’t free...
That's a heartening thought...
Many Europeans might disagree with the actions of Bush...
I would feel the same way if all I had to read and watch was the leftist European media...
Let’s have a look at the last 100 years:...
I appreciate your hopeful time line, but I still see no hope for an effective counter to Iran.
We, the good guys, are here to fix it.
We certainly welcome it and wish you success!
We need to get our own slackers off their duffs as well...
They’re going to get a foothold in Kosovo as an independant but “democratic” Islamic state. Albania is already rife with Saudi and Iranian funding, budding networks.
I think the oil exploration initiatives with Cyprus could be a spark a year and half out between Greece and Turkey. And if Turkey continues to slide towards a more militant tact, then Greece is going to be squeezed between a Greater Albania and radical Islamicized Turkey.
French President Nicholas Sarkozy (then a candidate) has stated in January 2007 that “Enlarging Europe with no limit risks destroying European political union, and that I do not accept...I want to say that Europe must give itself borders, that not all countries have a vocation to become members of Europe, beginning with Turkey which has no place inside the European Union.”
from Wikipedia here...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union
It will be interesting.
And on the other hand, President Bush urges the EU to allow Turkey as a member (recent...this year) here...
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/2D50B8A8-6C49-4A48-A487-9C2AA91A0D11.htm
Or is this the important???
Islam’s Trojan Horse? Turkish Nationalism and the Nakshibendi Sufi Order...(from the link here)
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/019405.php#comments
Thanks to Robert Spencer and the outstanding posters at jihadwatch.
As important, popular emphasis on the greater jihad tends to run in tandem with discussions that characterize Sufism as a “version” of Islam that exists somehow outside
the constructs of Islamic law and hence outside the Islamic legal requirements regarding jihad as warfare to establish the religion. As al-Ghazali’s background demonstrates,
serious Muslims can be serious Sufis and yet find no inherent contradiction between their own personal spiritual struggles and the legal call to jihad. Comments from prominent Sufi clerics cited in the thesis in the discussion on jizya also reflect a lack of any sensed
contradiction. In fact, as the Umdat al-Salik demonstrates, faithful adherence to — and mastery of — Islamic law is a prerequisite to becoming a Sufi while those claiming Sufi
status outside of Islamic law deserve to be killed. (On this last point, it is worth pointing out the authority the ‘Umdat al-Salik relied on to state the point of law was al-Ghazali himself.) Establishing Sufis as doctrinally mainstream Sunni Muslims, the‘Umdat al-Salik establishes their bona fides among jihadi leaders in jihad. Hence, not only do Sufis recognize the legal status of jihad as warfare to establish the religion, but as legal scholars they cannot be relied on to provide support for a new non-warfare definition of jihad capable of generating legal recognition. On prominent contemporary Sufi-jihadis, the most infamous example is the Sufi Naqshbandi leader, Shamil Basayev, architect of the September 2004 massacre of 331 school children in Beslan, Russia.
from page 271 (of this MUST READ work) here...
http://www.strategycenter.net/docLib/20080107_Coughlin_ExtremistJihad.pdf
I don’t know how it all works out, but somehow Turkey is going to end up on the side of Iranian-Iraqi militant axis which will control the M.E. and become aggressive towards Europe. I think the Cyprus oil thing could be a flashpoint 1 1/2 years ahead.
You are probably onto something, rjp2005, as I am just now educating myself about that country and its history.
I leave you with this...
The very first thing a Sufi, as a man of religious learning knows is that the Shari’a and ‘Aqida of Islam are above every human being. Whoever does not know this will never be a Sufi, except in the orientalist sense of the word like someone standing in front of the stock exchange in an expensive suit with a briefcase to convince people he is a stockbroker. A real stockbroker is something else.
from this...
linked from alank1 (jihadwatch poster) on January 1, 2008 at 11:08 AM...about an event to take place January 3rd - 6th, 2008 - This year’s winter Suhba will be at Regal Sun Resort in Orlando, Florida.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/019405.php#comments
The barbarians are inside the gates.
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