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Excerpt. More at NBCNews11.com. |
Posted on 04/25/2008 6:36:20 AM PDT by MizSterious
No offense, dude, but you obviously have not been keeping up with what has been going on in this compound or what the real moral and legal issues are with regard to this polygamist sect.
““But to suggest all of them be painted with this broad brush because they belong to a particular religion is a very dangerous thing, and that’s why we have courts.””
But to suggest all of them be painted with this broad brush because all of them belong to a sect that promotes, and enforces sex with minors by a limited circle of men, and whose leader practiced sex with a MALE MINOR, is why they are all going to court.
Plus, you can’t really take them to court until you’ve investigated the matter, and you can’t investigate the matter until you’ve separated the possible victims from the possible perpetrators and/or witnesses. That’s what CPS has done, and then the court can do its part.
It may not be the best solution in all cases. It may not be the best solution in this case, though I don't know if there might also be allegations of abuse to infants and toddlers in this case as well.
I suspect the policy stems from some past bad experiences with removing an abused child, and then having other children become the new target of abuse. I suspect that children's services would get sued by non-custodial parents if they left other children in an environment that they had already ruled was unsafe in many cases.
It might make for a reasonable argument by the parents lawyers that those children aren't at risk from the alleged abuse, but the way family court works, if the judge rules that foster care poses less risk to the infants and toddlers than being with their parents, they don't have much legal recourse.
In some cases, that might be a good thing, in others it's a bad thing. It puts an incredible amount of power in the hands of family court judges, and if that power is abused can have serious implications for some of our most vulnerable citizens. However, there really is no good way to deal with these kinds of issues, so for lack of a better solution to dealing with the reality of abusive parents, this is what we've got.
“Wuli, I don’t consider child rape a “lifestyle.” Sorry. It’s a crime. Crimes, especially those as serious as this, should be prosecuted.”
i don’t disagree, in the general sense or any specific cases that are resident in this religious group
but, i do not believe that those acts are at the heart of the desire to intervene by the state - they had no such evidence - and their real desire includes an arrogant presumption that the state is always right if the state chooses to act, just because a majority has given them that right
as i said, i think it is a tragedy all around
and, i believe the children are predominately the real victims here
“and whose leader practiced sex with a MALE MINOR”
Wow, based on your logic with this statement all Catholics deserve the same. you got some splainin to do.
“because ALL of them belong to a sect that promotes, and enforces sex with minors”
So EVERY person on this ranch was activly engaged in sex with minors or was it a few perverted, sick old men? How do you know that all the pregnancies were a product of intercourse with these old pedophiles and not by teenage boys......not all of the boys are expelled.
Some delight in setting the bait for a flame war on this issue-
Accusing a poster of being a child rapist.
Accusing a poster of supporting child rape.
Accusing a poster of being a polymigist.
Accusing a poster of supporting polygamy.
Accusing a poster of being FLDS member.
Accusing a poster of not caring about the children.
Accusing a poster of being an idiot.
Accusing a poster of being a liar.
Wholesale bashing of the mainstream LDS church.
Posting posts of others over and over as facts of the case.
Attacking anyone that asks a question.
Just a handy cheat sheet to refer to for those of you that do want to have a flame war on this thread. Those of you that want reasoned discussion of this issue are very likely out of luck.
Wuli, after they entered the ranch, they found numerous under-aged mothers. That’s pretty good evidence.
But I do agree, there’s a lot of tragedy here.
“Plus, you can’t really take them to court until you’ve investigated the matter...”
Do civil/family courts count or are those just part of CPS?
“you can’t investigate the matter until you’ve separated the possible victims from the possible perpetrators and/or witnesses”
You mean you can’t force the mothers talk until they have been forcibly separated from their children.
" Accusing a poster of being a child rapist.
Accusing a poster of supporting child rape.
Accusing a poster of being a polymigist.
And as for this--
Accusing a poster of supporting polygamy.
Accusing a poster of being FLDS member.
Accusing a poster of not caring about the children.
Accusing a poster of being an idiot.
Accusing a poster of being a liar.
If you are against rescuing these children from people who are enslaving them and often raping them, then one way or another, you are helping their victimizers. Period.
As for calling someone and idiot or a liar, well, I don't know which specific incidence of these you have in mind, but on these boards I have from time to time found that both types of posters are indeed present. These are not words that should be used lightly, and they are not words that should be used just because an argument is being lost. But sometimes people ARE idiots, and sometimes people DO lie. Sad but true.
And finally, I do notice that some people mistake criticism for a twisted offshoot of Mormonism to be criticism for ALL of Mormonism. Speaking for myself, that is not the case. I hope it isn't for anyone else either.
No, that isn’t what I mean, and you know it.
Good idea. I've modified the header. MS, you might want to include the date in the header of each of your daily threads.
Will do, and thank you for helping out! Much appreciated!
Also, folks, check the comment section after the article—when I post a link to the other days’ threads, I’ll be including a brief listing of the main articles posted on the thread. This might also help if someone is trying to research something.
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Excerpt. More at NBCNews11.com. |
Do you think a State should be entitled to seize, transfer custody and relocate, without an individual hearing, any child of rape victims who have reached legal adulthood? Do you think the State should be entitled to seize and relocate children en masse without individual hearings?
Cordially,
“Wuli, after they entered the ranch,”
yes, ‘after’ they entered the ranch - just shows the evidence was not there ‘before’ they entered the ranch
should an ‘investigation’ at your house be, legally, conducted that way??????
that is what should disturb us as much as, equally with, the later ‘evidence’ of child abuse
Are you serious? You can’t know which ones are being abused until you investigate the matter. No one would be happy with someone from the Psychic Hotline “divining” with her crystal ball just who was molested and who wasn’t. Sheesh.
I think the issue is the fact that the mothers are refusing to say who is the natural mother of which child. I think the issue is also the women do not know who is the natural mother of which child.
Wuli, if you call someone for help, and no one shows up because your call is “unsubstantiated,” how would you like that? Every 911 call is “unsubstantiated” until the time the police show up and look into it. Once they’re there, if they see evidence of any other crime, they act on that too.
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