Gene Disorder Complicates Sect Custody Fight (YFZ/fLDS Daily Thread - 4/27/08)

NPR ^ | April 27, 2008 | N/A

[MizSterious]

Gene Disorder Complicates Sect Custody Fight

April 27, 2008 ·
Lawyers for the mothers of 462 children taken from a polygamist ranch in West Texas will ask a state appeals court for relief, but the process is slowed by problems in determining the children's parentage. Texas family law officials continue to investigate allegations of physical and sexual abuse. Wade Goodwyn and Liane Hansen discuss the legal proceedings.

Meanwhile, many of the children in the FLDS group suffer from fumarase deficiency, a genetic disease that causes acute retardation and physical deformation. The disease was spread through decades of inbreeding, according to John Dougherty, an investigative reporter who has written extensively about the polygamist sect.

Link includes audio report with more details.

[MizSterious]

4/26 thread with articles on:

Cost of care for the children of the sect, charges that two kids might be missing, how members of the sect dress, court rejects requests of mothers to stay with children, appeals court cancels hearing, Canadian involved in sect, culture shock for kids, oil drillers last laugh, possible involvement in human trafficking and drugs at Colorado City, Rep. Kay Granger's request to investigate financial ties to USG

4/25 thread with aritcles on:

Courts allowing state to place children in foster homes, legal challenges to the raid, beliefs on polygamy, protests against the raid and removal of children, Warren Jeff's appeal, portions of the Texas Family Code

4/24 thread with articles on:

Seized polygamous sect kids face tough adjustment, articles on how and where the children were placed, Carolyn Jessup on Canadian children possibly at the ranch, legal aid group challenges judge, interview with Benjamin Bistline, 40 women choose to go to safe house instead of back to cult, 25 girls claimed to be adults, now found to be minors.

Currently collecting informative links to include with the daily threads--should appear this weekend.

As always, for the sake of orderliness (and to prevent the pulling of threads and/or messages), let's do try to stay on topic and polite. You can't have a flame war if you don't take the bait.

____________________

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I do not run a pinglist, but you can freepmail Politicalmom and request that you be added to her FLDS Eldorado Legal Case Ping List.

[MizSterious]

Daily thread ping!

[greyfoxx39]

Ping to daily thread

[EggsAckley]

“Meanwhile, many of the children in the FLDS group suffer from fumarase deficiency, a genetic disease that causes acute retardation and physical deformation. The disease was spread through decades of inbreeding,”

FINALLY this comes out. *sigh*

[MizSterious]

Eldorado children's fate in hands of little-known process

By Chuck Lindell
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Sunday, April 27, 2008

The fate of 462 children who were separated from their parents in a polygamous sect will be decided in a little-known, highly regimented legal process in the civil court system.

Mandatory hearings will be held on a timetable prescribed by federal and state law — all designed to help a judge decide whether the children will return home or be placed with a relative, adopted by a stranger or made a ward of the state.

That decision must be made within one year of their removal from home, though a judge can grant one six-month extension.

Absent horrific or repeated abuse, state law requires Child Protective Services to work toward reuniting families.

Toward that goal, CPS must offer an array of self-improvement opportunities to parents, including drug and alcohol treatment, job training, parenting classes and counseling.

Excerpt. Read the rest at source: Statesman.com.

[CalvaryJohn]

Inbreeding. I am not surprised.

[MizSterious]

April 26, 2008, 7:24PM

Polygamist sect pleads for Perry's help to get children back

Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle

Acting as a representative for the women and children of the Yearning for Zion ranch near Eldorado, Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints leader Willie

Jessop again asked Texas Gov. Rick Perry to "block the separation of our 437 children from their mothers" in a letter sent Saturday.

Jessop noted that the group has sent previous requests to meet with the governor that were ignored.

Calling the removal of the children from the compound "some of the most horrific violations of human rights that have ever been allowed on American soil," the letter accuses Child Protective Services of misrepresenting conditions within the sect and making false allegations against the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a splinter sect of Mormonism that believes in polygamy for men.

"The Texas Department of Family and Protective Services have demonstrated, in a most blatant way, their inability to properly care for, or even account for our children. Many have been left in critical medical conditions, resulting in permanent mental damage through threats, intimidation, and ultimately separating them from their parents," Jessop wrote.

Excerpt. Read the rest at source: The Houston Chronicle.

[MizSterious]

An Unusual Prosecution of a Way of Life

Texas Will Attempt to Show That Polygamist Culture Itself Harms Children

Members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints show strain after spending 11 days in a shelter. Here, they are at the Yearning for Zion Ranch near Eldorado, Tex., which law enforcement raided April 3. (By Tony Gutierrez -- Associated Press)

ELDORADO, Tex. -- The ironic thing is that before the big sheriff's department armored personnel carrier appeared outside the Yearning for Zion Ranch, it was starting to seem as though America had finally figured out how to live with its polygamists.

For more than a century, authorities had alternately persecuted and ignored the groups practicing plural marriage around the West -- splinters from mainstream Mormonism, splinters of splinters. Mostly, they ignored them.

But, in the past few years, officials in some states have begun trying to bring these groups out of the shadows. They offered a deal: Marry however often you want, but don't marry children. A Supreme Court case on gay sex also provided unlikely help.

Then came Eldorado.

Excerpt. Read the rest at source: The Washington Post.

[varina davis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumarase_deficiency

This details the disease.

[deport]

Here's another assertion about the actions of this FLDS group in Eldorado with regards to children.

Meanwhile, parents who have been cast out of the FLDS Church have been coming forward to help establish paternity. Some had no idea their children were in Texas.

"We are hearing from parents who tell us they were forced out of the FLDS, and they believe that their children may now be in DFPS custody," said Rolfe. "We are making arrangements for those parents to submit samples to labs that are close to where they live."

[panaxanax]

Great source!! This is a story from NPR (lefty communist public radio) with no known author(”N/A”).

You Mormon-haters are killing me! It's like mass hysteria with you . “Oh my, did you hear the FLDS were really aliens from another planet?

The “What ifs”, “could be”, “probably”, “well, I heard that...”, “did you hear that....”, “they wear weird clothes”, “the kids all look alike”, “the women have strange hairdo's” quite frankly is getting very old and blowing any credibility you started out with completely out of the water.

You all have become obsessed with this. What are you, a bunch of little old shut-ins with nobody to gossip with? It is truly becoming a joke and I think Jim Robinson would agree 100%.

Here's an idea! Lets all wait and see what the facts are BEFORE we convict people. Duh!

If there were older guys that were raping/forcing underage girls into marriage then, like I've said it before, will purchase the rope to hang them with.

I'll repeat that for the memory impaired:

If there were older guys that were raping/forcing underage girls into marriage then, like I've said it before, will purchase the rope to hang them with.

Be sure to ping all the usual sky-is-falling suspects before you go back to your little hen-party.

[Twinkie]

These things tend to happen when your father is your husband and your children are your half sisters and brothers. - Does that partially explain it? - Let’s call it what it is - ungodly.

[ReformedBeckite]

Meanwhile, many of the children in the FLDS group suffer from fumarase deficiency, a genetic disease that causes acute retardation and physical deformation. The disease was spread through decades of inbreeding,......

Kind of reminds me of the command some where in the New Testament that Christ commands his followers to go out into the world not to hide from the world in some religious culture. Genetically sometimes the best mate you could find to promote Genes is some one from another country.

[greyfoxx39]

There is a FR thread up on this.

An Unusual Prosecution of a Way of Life

[CRBDeuce]

I was interested right up until I read the source...NPR! Think I'll wait 'til this story gets vetted! ...but If certain frequently posted graphics are causing problems on your computer, FireFox browser (and possibly others) can actually block them entirely. Just right-click your mouse, and click on the "block image from..." option.

thanks for the reminder!

[Drango]

This isn’t a better source than NPR but it is an interesting overview...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumarase_deficiency

[UCANSEE2]

Thank you for posting this article.

[greyfoxx39]

You Mormon-haters are killing me! It's like mass hysteria with you . “Oh my, did you hear the FLDS were really aliens from another planet?

ROTF hysterically laughing my butt off! Here is a thread by one of your FELLOW MORMONS. I suggest you try a keyword search for "flds" before you go off on a hateful rant.

Forbidden Fruit (Inbreeding among FLDS cult)

[MizSterious]

I just saw it. Frankly, I am starting to think the whole daily thread thing is redundant.

[UCANSEE2]

Post #5. Very interesting as well.

Thank You for your efforts at coordinating the threads on this subject.

Many talk. A few do the hard work.

[MizSterious]

This makes it doubly sad. I wonder if the state can add kidnapping charges to everything else.

[deport]

Click the above Polygamy GIF for a very good compilation of articles on the FLDS, Polygamy, Warren Jeffs trial, Eldorado, etc.....

Click the below link for a very indepth discussion of 'fumarase' and it's discovery among the FLDS, treatment, statistics, etc.

Forbidden Fruit .. Inbreeding among polygamists along the Arizona-Utah border is producing a caste of severely retarded and deformed children

[EggsAckley]

You, my dear, have put it into much more respectable verbage than I could have.

~</;o)

[MizSterious]

Oh please. I am not a Mormon hater. In fact, for a short time I supported Romney (anyone but McCain...). That said, I DO hate what this particular offshoot of LDS is doing. I started to say to the women and children, but the young men fare no better, or in some cases probably worse. I suggest you take the chip off your shoulder. If no one is aiming insults at you or your particular religion, don't imagine one.

[MizSterious]

It’s a story that’s been around, but which none of MSM wanted to touch (not even with a 10-ft pole). Check some of the links on this thread—there is ample information about this problem available.

[HangnJudge]

Article on Endogamy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endogamy

Endogamy is the practice of marrying within a social group. Cultures who practice endogamy require marriage between specified social groups, classes, or ethnicities. A Danish endogamist would require marriage only to other Danes. Just about any accepted social grouping may provide a boundary for endogamy. Despite the fact that many people tend to marry members of their own social group, there are some groups that practice endogamy very strictly as an inherent part of their moral values, traditions or religious beliefs.

and Fumarase Deficiency

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumarase_deficiency

[UCANSEE2]

YOU ARE JUST FULL OF SURPRISES TODAY, MY DEAR! : )

" The Texas Department of Family and Protective Services The leadership at the YFZ Ranch have demonstrated, in a most blatant way, their inability to properly care for, or even account for their children. Many have been left in critical medical conditions, resulting in permanent mental damage, and others are silenced through intimidation, and threats of damnation in hell, by their parents.

[greyfoxx39]

Rare gene disorder common in FLDS

Genetic disorder: About 20 cases have been discovered in 15 years

in two polygamous towns

By Brooke Adams

The Salt Lake Tribune 

For more than 15 years, an Arizona physician has quietly cataloged a growing number of cases of a rare genetic disorder in a polygamous community on the Utah-Arizona border that causes severe mental retardation.

   Called fumarase deficiency, the disorder occurs so infrequently that fewer than 50 cases have been documented worldwide. Yet pediatric neurologist Theodore Tarby counts somewhere between a dozen and 20 children suffering from the metabolic disease in the twin towns of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Ariz.

   "I would say we have about half of the world's population [of the disorder]," Tarby said in a telephone interview from Phoenix.

    Genetic diseases are not uncommon in closed societies, experts say, pointing to rare disorders that are found among the Amish, Mennonites and Bedouins.

   The twin towns are home to some 8,000 members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a polygamist sect that has called the Arizona Strip home since 1935.

   Most residents trace their family lines back to four original founders - John Y. Barlow, Leroy Johnson and Richard and Fred Jessop - and intermarriages can contribute to the genetic risk.

   "The whole town is related to each other one way or another through marriage," said Ben Bistline, an ex-FLDS member and author of The Polygamists: A History of Colorado City, Arizona.

   Tarby said he first saw a child with the problem about 15 years ago, when an FLDS couple came to a Phoenix clinic with a son suffering from a degenerative condition. He took a urine sample, sent it to a lab in Colorado for analysis and received the startling diagnosis.

   Tarby later determined that another child in the family had the same problem - though her parents had thought it was cerebral palsy. Since then, the number of children in the community with fumarase deficiency has grown.

    In the disorder, an enzyme necessary to generate energy from food is missing. As a result, cells - particularly brain cells - don't get enough fuel to grow, multiply and function properly. The disorder causes varying degrees of disability, including severe mental retardation, muscle control problems and debilitating epileptic seizures.

   Some of the children Tarby has seen look completely normal as infants; others have facial deformities.

   "Usually the kids can appear completely normal at birth but then they show delays in development as they grow older," said Nicola Longo, a professor of pediatrics at the University of Utah.

    Some children with the severest form of the disorder do not live long. Like many genetic disorders, fumarase deficiency makes children with it more susceptible to common childhood infections, he said. 

    "Infections that wouldn't normally kill children can be deadly for these children," said Longo, who also is director of metabolic services in the Department of Pediatrics.

    Tarby said that in the years he has treated children with the disorder, just one has died. The oldest is now 20 years old.

    Longo said the disease can't be detected by existing newborn screenings, though amniocentesis would pick up problems in a developing fetus. That is an option the FLDS are unlikely to pursue.

   There is no screening test that might identify gene carriers, either, though researchers could isolate the particular genetic changes found in a patient and then look for the same DNA markers in blood relatives to find carriers,

      There may be other identifying clues, however. Longo said the most current research on the disorder has found that people with the recessive gene are prone to certain benign skin tumors and, in women, benign fibrous uterine tumors.

   "Carrying the gene is nothing unusual," Longo said. "We all carry at least 20 bad genes. The problem is when you have children with someone carrying the same bad gene."

   Even then, odds of giving birth to a child with the disorder is a genetic crapshoot - not, these experts say, due strictly to intermarriage.

   "That's a bad concept," said D. Holmes Morton, a physician who has spent more than 20 years working with Old Order Amish in Strasburg, Penn.

   Morton's work in the community has led to identification of two genetic disorders: an inherited form of sudden infant death syndrome and a rare form of microcephaly.

   He also was instrumental in discovery of a genetic disorder among Mennonites known as maple syrup urine disease, a metabolic disorder.

    Morton attributes 10 percent of the genetic disorders seen in the Amish to intermarriages and 90 percent to random genetic drift.

    He said small, rapidly expanding populations like these - and the FLDS - cause bad genes to become amplified. Predicting how many children are likely to be affected is a matter of simple math - and chance.

   When two carriers of the recessive gene marry, there is a one in four chance of their children having a genetic mutation.

    "The problem is when you toss the coin, you never know which way it will come out," Longo said. "It is just a matter of chances."

   Some communities, such as the Orthodox Ashkenazi Jews, test for the gene that causes Tay-Sachs disease and share those findings with matchmakers, who then avoid pairing carriers.

   "If they arrange marriages, there is an opportunity there," Morton said.

   But Tarby has little reason to believe science will influence mating habits of the FLDS, where church leaders decide who marries whom.

   Tarby met with about 150 members of the FLDS community in November to explain the disorder and how it could be prevented.

   He quickly dispelled a rumor that it was being caused by something in the town's water, saying it was simply procreation. Otherwise, he said, the audience had intelligent, concerned questions.

   He told them things that would "stop production of these kids," such as prenatal testing, but that is "only worthwhile if you are going to interrupt pregnancies" and genetic testing would only work if "they would change their mating habits."

   "They consider these children to be their responsibility from God and their duty is to produce as many children as possible," he said. "There isn't any reason in their view to slow down the having of children."

  http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:qoLCr-5J6woJ:t4.jordan.k12.ut.us/teacher_resources/Science/modelclassroomroot/Activities/Biology%2520Activities/Standard%25204/Obj.%25201/RargeneinFLDS.doc+Rare+gene+disorder+common+in+FLDS&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Salt Lake Tribune, cached at Google

THIS ought to solve the problem for you that are SO disturbed by the source of the genetic disease article.

[Virginia Ridgerunner]

Is this Willie the same “Big Willie” who was Warren Jeffs bodyguard/enforcer?

[panaxanax]

Did you miss the part[s] where I said “I’ll buy the rope?”. In fact, I said it twice for the memory impaired. Maybe some need to read it three times. Let me know.

[wolfcreek]

I was going to post this article but, I see you've done the chore.

It give the most plausible explanation on why these children needed to be removed.

[MizSterious]

What does buying the rope have to do with my comment? I was addressing your blanket-accusation of being a “Mormon-Hater.” I’m not, and I’m not going to let you get away with making that accusation. I’ll correct you every time you do it. I frankly don’t care if you buy rope, make rope, or smoke it.

[greyfoxx39]

Thanks for the info, deport.

[panaxanax]

“Rare gene disorder common in FLDS”

“Genetic disorder: ABOUT 20 cases have been discovered in 15 years in two polygamous towns”

If you are trying to pass this off as a Scientific document please note that scientists do not use the word “about”.

What is it in the general population?

[wolfcreek]

“Absent horrific or repeated abuse, state law requires Child Protective Services to work toward reuniting families.”

“Toward that goal, CPS must offer an array of self-improvement opportunities to parents, including drug and alcohol treatment, job training, parenting classes and counseling.”

The parents (or children) won't even give their last names. They aren't doing themselves any favors toward getting their children returned.

The fact a lot of the new children (or ones buried in their cemeteries) have this disorder is even more damning.

[greyfoxx39]

If you are trying to pass this off as a Scientific document please note that scientists do not use the word “about”.

Your squealing was about the source...post 28 used a source that should fit your agenda very well, Salt Lake Tribune, cached at Google.

Your hyperbole and straw men don't change the facts, much as you would like them too.

[UCANSEE2]

You’re just lonely.

Especially noticeable because you started repeating yourself.

I am sure with all your lofty concerns over diving into a thread where rational, logical discussions, and some mild banter is going on, that we will all now kneel at your knees and worship the ground you walk on.

The WHATIFS are merely human attempts to discuss their concerns, based on recently learned information. If they don’t mention their individual tack on a subject, how can anyone else address it with course corrections?

This is a public discussion forum, and this case is a very ‘sensitive’ one, and includes a sublist of just about EVERY HOT SUBJECT discussed on F.R, including the kitchen sink and Global Warming.

If people want to discuss it, and do their best to remain civil, and follow The website owner’s rules,

WHAT BUSINESS IS THAT OF YOUR’S?

Your argument that a thread about the safety of women and children should not be dominated by female freepers, is just silly. So is the idea that everyone must not discuss or debate the subject, until it’s all over.

Frankly, posters who come in and insult the LADIES around here, disgust me.

Complete lack of respect.

[MizSterious]

"Here's an idea! Lets all wait and see what the facts are BEFORE we convict people. Duh!"

Here's an even better idea, genius. WE don't convicty anyone. In our country, a jury does that chore. The rest of us are allowed to not only have opinions, but to express them. Fancy that.

[pepsionice]

Bravo! I’ve been saying this for a number of days. There is a whole segment of society that will say or agree to anything that anti-Mormon...because of their vision of the religion.

[wolfcreek]

I agree and have said before, we need to wait for all the info.

Having said that, I’m surprised and than a little bit delighted we are privy to what info has come out so far. Usually, in cases where children (minors) are involved, little info is made for public consumption.

As far as the *rope* , the sect itself is providing plenty.

[UCANSEE2]

“If you are trying to pass this off as a Scientific document please note that scientists do not use the word “about”.”

Obviously, you missed all the Global Warming Threads.

[MizSterious]

Most of the posts here have been about an offshoot of Mormonism. People of the fLDS group might have a right to feel testy about some of what’s coming out about that group, but I don’t see how anyone who’s mainstream LDS has a reason to gripe. Unless, of course, it’s just that want to feel like a victim today. Is that what you’re up to?

[UCANSEE2]

I can’t figure out what that poster is talking about.

I reread the article, and line by line, each statement is true, and can be sourced.

Some have ears, and can’t hear, eyes and can’t see.

[Enosh]

"anti-Mormon"
Anti-Mormonism, thank you.

"...because of their vision of the religion."
Here's your chance to correct our misunderstanding about a "religion" which produces the plethora of evils we've seen discussed here lately.

Please start with the whole "men become gods" thing to see if you can twist it away from blasphemy.

[greyfoxx39]

Bravo! I’ve been saying this for a number of days. There is a whole segment of society that will say or agree to anything that anti-Mormon...because of their vision of the religion.

[MizSterious]

I’d like to apologize for all my typos today—trying to make the preparations for Sunday dinner, so I’m back & forth between the kitchen and the office, and so in my hurry, I’m not doing a proper job of editing.

[panaxanax]

Okay, let me say it this way so that you can compare the group (greyfoxx39/mormonhaters/bigots) that you have aligned yourself with to the group that I am defending (LDS NOT FLDS) repeat after me....LDS NOT FLDS.....one more time.....LDS NOT FLDS.<<< There should be no mystery now where I stand.....LDS NOT FLDS.

Your group compares everyone that defends the LDS (again, not flds!) as being sympathetic to the alleged actions of the FLDS. We have been called every vile name that can be printed here without being zotted. I have called for restraint in judging those ‘guilty’ from the very beginning and I'll say it again and again. Let the facts come out before we convict. I'll say it as many times as I have to in order to get through the slow thought processes and extreme hatred that your group exhibits against Mormons, now, one more time boys and girls, that LDS, NOT FLDS.

Lesson over.

[MizSterious]

I think it’s just that some people want to feel like victims today. I haven’t seen any bashing, except from those who claim these articles somehow bash them.

[MizSterious]

Ok. Whatever. Are you done?

[Enosh]

"LDS, NOT FLDS."

Slightly different spelling and all...