Yup. Ridiculous.
Posted on 05/16/2008 8:20:57 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY
Seattle Times editorial writer Bruce Ramsey, in an effort to defend Barack Obama against President Bush’s “appeasement” speech, actually ends up defending Nazi Germany, Adolf Hitler, and the Anschluss (the annexation of Austria): Bush, and His Use of ‘Appeasement’.
Democrats are rebuking President Bush for saying in his speech to the Knesset, here, that to “negotiate with terrorists and radicals” is “appeasement.” The Democrats took it as a slap at Barack Obama. What bothers me is the continual reference to Hitler and his National Socialists, particularly the British and French accommodation at the Munich Conference of 1938.
What Hitler was demanding was not unreasonable. He wanted the German-speaking areas of Europe under German authority. He had just annexed Austria, which was German-speaking, without bloodshed. There were two more small pieces of Germanic territory: the free city of Danzig and the Sudetenland, a border area of what is now the Czech Republic.
We live in an era when you do not change national borders for these sorts of reasons. But in 1938 it was different. Germany’s eastern and western borders had been redrawn 19 years before—and not to its benefit. In the democracies there was some sense of guilt with how Germany had been treated after World War I. Certainly there was a memory of the “Great War.” In 2008, we have entirely forgotten World War I, and how utterly unlike any conception of “The Good War” it was. When the British let Hitler have a slice of Czechoslovakia, they were following their historical wisdom: avoid war. War produces results far more horrible than you expected. War is a bad investment. It is not glorious. Don’t give anyone an excuse to start one.
Wow.
I thought this one summed it up:
"I used to think the left was just misguided. Now you're veering towards malevolent insanity."
Whats amusing about this entire story is that the moment you pull out the “Hitler card”...you label the other guy as a loser and you automatically win the argument. So Bush accomplished exactly what he set out to do.
But for a brief moment...what the heck does Iraq and the current situation have to do with 1930s Nazi Germany? I am at a loss as to how Bush pulls this rabbit out of his hat and proudly proclaims it. I’m not a Obama-freak...but then I’ve come to recognize that this Administration in no manner measures up to the Ronald Reagan Administration.
If someone starts pulling out the Nazi label...then we get stuck with explaining Gitmo for the 99th time, the plan to “win the war finally” version 6.1 and the 1000 reasons why we can’t secure our borders against Mexico with a real fence (just half a fence, thank you).
Bush basically bought a weekend of chatter on the Sunday talk shows and took Obama down a notch for a brief period of time. If Obama chooses to label Gitmo a concentration camp-atmosphere next week...then we get another weekend of Hitler-chat, and maybe even a TBS-featured weekend of World War II movies featuring Hitler.
I think I’ve “Hitlered” this discussion enough but I’m sure some folks may want to Hitler-flame me a bit or Hitler-chastise me a bit. Feel Hitler-free to do so...if you want.
Yup. Ridiculous.
This jerk is unfit to live in this country. He is in fact unfit to live.
Well wirtten comment you made...excellent.
Our politicians an people have becime as dim and polyannic as Chamberlain...and not in exceptions but as a rule.
I just wonder if he(editor) did not start out trying to defend Obama in writing this. Becuase Obama took Bush’s comments to be about him when they were not this week.
I don't think he really knows what he believes except that he felt the need to defend Obama's proposed appeasement, and that led him to his extremely ignorant and foolish article. I am hoping we get more of this complete idiocy from the left as the Obama campaign moves forward.
I used to think it was solely because they weren't allowed to have a real orgasm.
That may still be part of it, but that damned kafiya half blinds them, so they can't aim & fire.
66 was for Tennessean4Bush
It’s bad enough that elders who fought in WWII think the last couple of generations are full of p*ssy’s but this idiot editor would make them think they fought for absolutely nothing...back to square one....thanks jerk(editor).
Actually the NAZI's and Fascists took inspiration from American eugenicists, and were great admirers of Americans like Margaret Sanger.
An earlier poster mentioned Jonah Goldberg's Liberal Fascism and I highly recommend it. He does a wonderful job of tying together much of the common DNA the European Fascists and NAZI's had with the American Progressive movement.
Absolutely incredible that anyone would defend the nazis as they Seattle paper has. To defend even the inane is to enable the treachery (do words descrbe it) that became Germany. Appeasement does not work.
ALL the ones I read were - if Ramsey wasn't so representative of the ignorance that's mainstream in this state, it'd be almost humorous.
BTW, he's one of the ugliest of the Obama girls.
People like Ramsay are what I call brilliant idiots. They completed their college educations, maybe with honors, they can string their sentences together without making grammatical or syntactical errors, but they don't have a lick of common sense and are completely incapable of drawing the correct conclusions from a set of given facts. In short, a typical lib.
If their need is to say the moon is green to get Obama elected, they will do it with a smile and that confident look that would make the smarmiest used car salesman purple with envy.
"Actually, the moon is green... a pristine green land, nearly undamaged by man. Buy a couple of carbon credits and it will be undamaged. I'm serial!" 
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
As taken from Sanborn's article, pages 196-199 of Chapter 3 Roosevelt is Frustrated in Europe, in "Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace" edited by Barnes, Caxton Printers, copyright 1953:
II. ROOSEVELT AND MUNICH
And now it becomes necessary to narrate the melancholy story of Munich. Even among historians it does not seem to be generally known that Mr. Roosevelt must bear a portion of the responsibility which has been attributed entirely but erroneously to Mr. Chamberlain. When the summer of 1938 began, Chancellor Hitler was preparing to press new demands upon Czechoslovakia, but he was careful to note that he intended to avoid war : “ However, I will decide to take action against Czechoslovakia only if I am firmly convinced as in the case of the occupation of the demilitarized zone and the entry into Austria that France will not march and therefore England will not intervene.”(24) As the situation became intensified in late August, Mr. Churchill, although not in office, wrote to Lord Halifax(25) and suggested that Britain, France, and Russia should address a joint note to Germany intimating that an invasion of Czechoslovakia “would raise capital issues for all three powers.” And Mr. Churchill also advised that Mr. Roosevelt should be induced “to do his utmost” in approaching Chancellor Hitler only, and in urging upon him a friendly settlement. In the outcome, the only deviation from Mr. Churchill’s plan was in its last item.
As September lengthened the situation became more acute, but on the whole the tendency was for Britain, France, and Russia to stand more firmly together. On September 12, 1938, Foreign Minister Bonnet repeated the latter part of Mr. Churchill’s suggestions, and urged that Ambassador Wilson at Berlin be instructed to make representations to Germany only.(26) Mr. Chamberlain had gone to see the German Chancellor on September 15 at Berchtesgaden and again on September 22 at Godesberg, but his tendency, and that of the British cabinet, toward appeasement after the first interview was checked by the more exorbitant demands made at the second meeting.
On the night of September 23, 1938, general mobilization was ordered in Czechoslovakia, and the next day Prague informed London that the German demands were absolutely and unconditionally unacceptable. On September 24 Ambassador Kennedy telephoned from London to Mr. Hull. He reported that while the British cabinet was split, some of its members were of the opinion that Britain would have to fight.(27) On September 25 the American Minister to Prague telegraphed Mr. Hull a request from President Benes to Mr. Roosevelt that he should urge Britain and France not to desert Czechoslovakia.(28) Meanwhile France was at last preparing to perform its treaty obligations to Czechoslovakia, and partial mobilization was ordered.(29) Similarly Britain, on September 26, had announced its decision to assist France if France would stand by Czechoslovakia, and the mobilization of the British fleet was ordered on September 27 for the following day. Russia notified Prague(30) that she would honor the obligations of the 1935 treaty, and arranged with Rumania (which, with Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia, formed the Little Entente) for the passage of her troops. Russia had already delivered three hundred war planes to Czechoslovakia,(31) and in addition several squadrons of Soviet planes were on the Czechoslovak airfields.(32) In consequence Lord Halifax, still on September 26, 1938, issued this statement : “If, in spite of the efforts made by the British Prime Minister, a German attack is made upon Czechoslovakia, the immediate result must be that France will be bound to come to her assistance, and Great Britain and Russia will certainly stand by France.”(33)
Here was a momentary climax of power. It was a turning point of history, for there was bitter controversy in the opposite camp. The German people were at this moment, September 27, 1938, devoid of enthusiasm either for Chancellor Hitler or for the prospective conflict.(34) The German generals were convinced that Germany would be defeated and were preparing a Putsch(35) to depose Chancellor Hitler. The Chancellor wavered and, on the night of the twenty-seventh/twenty-eighth, the German radio broadcast an official denial that Germany intended to mobilize. Later, on the morning of the twenty-eighth, a similar statement was issued by the official German news agency.(36) The era of appeasement had apparently ended, and it seemed as if Great Britain, France, Czechoslovakia, and Russia had called Chancellor Hitler’s bluff just in the nick of time.
At this critical moment Mr. Roosevelt intervened and wrecked the entire situation. For some time he had been eager “to make personal appeals to the heads of the European Governments concerned.” There had been a conflict in the State Department : “Welles kept pushing the President on, while I [Mr. Hull] kept advising him to go Slow.”(37) Mr. Roosevelt decided to go ahead, and on September 26, 1938, he sent identical messages not only to Chancellor Hitler, but also to the President of Czechoslovakia, the Prime Minister of Great Britain, and to the Premier of France, asking that the negotiations might continue to settle the questions at issue, and that war might be avoided. The inner meaning of Mr. Roosevelt’s intervention could not have been misunderstood by any informed person. Mr. Roosevelt had earlier been requested to apply his pressure only against Germany, but now he was applying it against Germany’s opponents too. It was thus clear that Mr. Roosevelt was not only opposing their military preparations to go to war against Germany : he was also lending the support of his influence to those who, in the divided counsels of the British and French governments, were opposed to war—to those who have since been called the appeasers.
24. Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression, I, 525.
25. Churchill, The Gathering Storm, p. 293.
26. Cordell Hull, Memoirs, (2 vols.; New York : The Macmillan Company, 1948), I, 589.
27. Ibid., I, 590.
28. Ibid., I, 590-91.
29. Churchill, The Gathering Storm, p. 310.
30. Waverly Root, The Secret History of the War (2 vols.; New York : Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1945), I, 6, 10. Exactly this hostile combination had been foreseen by the Germans about a month previously ; see also Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression, III, 280.
31. Louis Fischer, Men and Politics, An Autobiography (New York : Duell, Sloan & Peace, 1941), p. 556.
32. Ibid., p. 570.
33. Ibid., p. 570 ; see also Churchill, The Gathering Storm, p. 309.
34. William L. Shirer, Berlin Diary (New York : Alfred A. Knopf, 1941), pp. 142-43 ; see also Hans Bernd Gisevius, To the Bitter End (Boston : Houghton Mifflin Company, 1947) p. 324.
35. Gisevius, op. cit., pp. 319-26 ; see also Churchill, The Gathering Storm, pp. 311-14.
36. Churchill, The Gathering Storm, p. 314.
37. Hull, op. cit., I, 591.
“What Hitler was demanding was not unreasonable. He wanted the German-speaking areas of Europe under German authority.”
Now we know what Obambi will say when Mexico demands the return of the southwest.
I don't think that this next election may well be the most important in my lifetime.
This is what we're up against
> Seattle Times editorial writer Bruce Ramsey
Time to write the Times to get him fired. This is outrageous.
Have a great day all.
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